^Simple math. It's been done many times on here, not going to find it. If you don't believe me so be it.
it is a certainty that others are doing what we do by spending $5M (or less) on players, not $20M
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I doubt that Seba plans on finishing his career at TFC but currently it doesn't appear he's in a hurry to go. If MLSE is eager to cash in on him in the transfer market, well, it's possible I guess.
Seems odd that there would be a sudden focus on belt-tightening from the MLS board, is TFC really losing that much money? TFC is still just a small part of MLSE's overall costs.
Last edited by Detroit_TFC; 04-26-2016 at 09:49 PM.
this has become the TFC is going fold again thread,if some club in China offers 30- 40 mil for SEBA you have to think about it.great players come and go.
I think Rogers learned through the Blue Jays that you don't get bodies and eyeballs in this city without spending money. If they were spending like they were last March, nobody would be talking about them.
BTW Blue Jays attendance tonight was 23 000 - not bad for a Tuesday going up against a Raptor playoff game. Last year, it would have been 12K.
The pressure on Manning to succeed is there because of the spending. But there is little evidence that the spending involved is seen to be too much. Has anybody in management actually hinted at that? No. It keeps being talked about by people because, well that's how they think MLSE would think. But, is it? Do we have any reason to think that beancounters are running MLSE again?
"while very successful teams are competing effectively with $4-5M payrolls" Actually, that approach is being abandoned by teams slowly but surely. The Rapids got Jones and will get Howard. The Crew spent money on Kamara. Portland spent money this offseason. These things tend to go in 6 month cycles. Right now the flavour of the week is LAG & TFC. If that was to be the 2 teams at the MLS Cup Final, you can bet that others would feel the need to spend money.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
If it isn't obvious, I'm just taking a wild ass guess here. Anyone got another idea as to what Larson is talking about?
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I seem to recall a bunch of predictions that Bradley (especially) and Altidore would be traded to NYCFC or another American team when they were signed and I'm still waiting for those shoes to drop... I don't see us selling our biggest draw right after expanding the stadium. Giovinco will leave when he wants to leave.
IIRC, Bradley's contract is 3 years - not sure if there is an option. This is likely what Larson is talking about. (I don't see Larson as really thinking too much about MLSE board decisions)
This sort of ties into what you are saying - TFC has to figure out what it wants to be long term. I think that discussion will have more to do with the vision that Manning has and whether Bradley fits into that and surfing that commitment or the acquiring of another DP type player through the MLSE board.
i.e. Is the long term vision of TFC as set out by Manning best served by Bradley or by another asset.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 04-26-2016 at 10:21 PM.
There is no example in the broadcasting divisions of Bell or Rogers of either of them spending money to retain talent. They never think, "If this show is a huge hit we'll make a lot more money," they always think, "What's the cheapest we can make it for and not lose any money?"
I don't see him leaving to be honest. He's almost 30. Once he hits 31 he won't be making the bucks he makes here in Europe. Why would he move to China? He's staying till he stops performing.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
$20 million in payroll for MLSE is chump change. they are paying Nazim Kadri $27 million alone starting next season in his new contract for chrissake. Truly believe that TFC from a MLSE corporate perspective is looked at as a 'long play'. The Leafs are a 'mature' product with not much room for growth. The Raps are growing but they will probably need a championship to get to the next level. Remember the majority owners of MLSE, Rogers & Bell, are publicly traded entities who need to manage to the next quarter (andmanage to the stock price) but who also need to show analysts and investors that there is a plan for long term growth. TFC, and for that matter soccer, is a big part of that. Don't really believe that Manning was brought in to turn TFC into some small market club. TFC is big potatoes in MLS, but a relatively small expenditure for MLSE.
simple math.
added US$19m in salary and with the fall in C$ it is now costing them C$25M.
They are bleeding red ink
in C$000s 2013 2016 change Gate 16000 16000 0 Suites 2000 3200 1200 Sponsorship 10000 6000 -4000 TV/SUM 1000 5700 4700 Concessions/Gameday 6000 6000 0 Player salaries -4000 -29000 -25000 Operations/academy expenses -18000 -18000 0 Adminstration costs -6000 -6000 0 Gamday expenses -4000 -4000 0 Profit / Loss 3000 -20100 -23100
Years have gone by and Ive finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: A pretty move, for the love of God.
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I dont give a damn which team or country performs it.
-Eduardo Galeano
Bradley and Jozy are unsellable on transfer market based on their contracts. Would have to go to another MLS team. You might get something for them
They wouldn't sell Seba unless MLSE was in need of cash, but based on the all the $ they make of the Leafs thanks to the NHL salary cap, i doubt that is the case.
Sure, and making TV shows for CTV is chump change for Bell, an entire season of "Motive" is less than a couple of Maple Leafs salaries but that's not the issue. They still never spend as much as a US show spends because the market is too small to make it profitable.
Sure, there must be a long term plan for long term growth for TFC. Do you think it's hitting the markers so far?
MLSE is not a wholly-owned entity by either bell or Rogers, as such the profitability of MLSE goes into other income/loss not EBITDA. This means both companies are not as concerned about profitability at MLSE as there regular 100% owned businesses where every cent is important.
There is a nhl salary cap, the leafs spend basically the same on salaries whether they signed Kadri or not. Has no impact on the business. The Leafs are the the cash cow that pays for everyone at MLSE - BMO Field, seba, bradley, jozy, everything
Last edited by Onyx; 04-26-2016 at 11:26 PM.
The size of their current contracts have nothing to do with whether or not they're sellable, the moment a transfer fee is agreed then a new contract is negotiated, their contracts factor in only really if the difference in contract sizes between us and the new club is so stark that they end up saying "it's not worth the pay-cut".
Personally, I think they're both sellable but if we did they would be sold for so cheap that we would probably get more out of it by trading them within the league.
Where are you getting these numbers from?
From first glance, I can see a couple of numbers that I want to question.
1. Sponsorship money - there was a sportsnet (?) article that said TFC sponsorship money is alittle less than 20m.
2. Attendance jumped by about 8-10k from 2013 to 2015. You indicated no change. Those numbers would increase both gate revenue, as well as concessions.
Yeah each time that chart is put out, the same questions come back and we all go
Just to spare everybody the same discussion, you can re-read all of us hashing through the detail about the same debate about TFC numbers starting here (continue down for about 20 posts).
http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/showth...=1#post1780914
Teams exaggerate their numbers, they all do it, although Leiweke probably belongs in a special category for his public statements on sponsorship .... I think Onyx's numbers are not that far off. I think we have so much scar tissue from the pre-Leiweke era, and therefore see it as a bigger abyss than it was from a marketing/financial POV - they had Frings, Koevermans, mostly similar attendance, and the 2012 CL run is probably the biggest success we ever had.
All this is a bit beside the point. TFC are spending, and therefore not earning, or offsetting losses, $10M+ more than Vancouver. That is the comparable for TFC ownership, who are famously cheap in these matters. I don't buy the arguments that this ownership is committed to being a big dog in MLS, I see no evidence of that in their other media businesses.
Who is kidding who? They'll support it to the level ratings pay for it, that's 100% how they think, and TFC's TV ratings are beyond garbage, and not moving despite the $10M+/year additional spend. Actually I'm not even sure about whether even that matters, given the way Rogers has cheaped out on hockey production and is in the process of wrecking a billion dollar ratings juggernaut. And anyone who thinks the Jays prove anything differently is not looking at the facts - we rank 13th in MLB payroll, despite there having all of a 35M person TV market that has proven it can drive enormous ratings, in a way that TFC/MLS never has, and has potential that is 10x that of TFC.
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/
Manning didn't build LA or Seattle, he built a money ball team.
I think this is all staring us in the face, whether we like it or not.
Last edited by ensco; 04-27-2016 at 07:10 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
There is nothing simple with MLS math. Simple meaning transparent.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
My take on Larsons comments was that Vanneys contract expires end of season. Vanney will want an extension or talks to begin in the summer. Does Manning do a deal in the summer or let the season playout, hire Kreis (Kreis could come off the table in the summer? Atlanta have said they want to hire a coach soon) instead or is there pressure from board/sebas agent to get big name coach in.
Given it was in a Vanney related it thread, i've got to believe its Vanney related.