And then the Maple Leafs move from Christie Pitts?Originally Posted by Beach_Red
And then the Maple Leafs move from Christie Pitts?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
amazing.
we should float that out there.
that if the jays renos are delayed...they'll start the 2017 season at Bmo.
Home Plate in the south West corner.
Almost exactly the same as when they were at the CNE.
Only Oakland do - and it's for the first few weeks of the NFL season - and both the A's and Raiders are looking for their own stadiums
Rogers Centre -
400 Feet from home base to the wall at center field.
400 Feet = 133 Yards
CFL field is 150 Yards long. (110 field of play, 2x20 yard endzones)
At one time, CFL and NFL fields were the exact same size. When American football teams started playing out of baseball stadiums the field size was reduced. Hence why it works in baseball stadiums
It doesn't have to be an open facility all the time. There are options for them. They could re-clad the outer skin on the roof with clear ETFE plastic panels. Translucent panels of ETFE surround the Allianz Arena in Munich, but an entire rugby stadium is housed under an ETFE ceiling in Otago, New Zealand with a grass field growing beneath it.
It's not just a fair-weather climate solution either. Minnesota Vikings new football stadium will also feature large ceiling areas of ETFE as well, though they'll play on plastic.
The technology exists for Rogers to refurbish the dome quite nicely - including drainage and ventilation - for a grass field and it makes abundant sense to do so. They own the stadium, the team and the network(s) that telecast the games.
One could be cynical and suggest that since the Argos have such scant fan support, just leave the stadium in baseball mode and fit the field onto the grass. Fans can sit wherever it works for them, just like they did at old CNE stadium.
Last edited by greatwhitenorf; 03-30-2015 at 12:49 PM.
that rugby stadium is pretty cool.
it would be kind of cool at the dome...playing a baseball game in the clear dome...with a thunderstorm happening, or a blizzard.
I wonder if they could get that clear plastic up on the dome in time for the grass to take root and be healthy for first pitch 2017?
they would almost need to start working on it during the 2016 season...so the turf could establish in time for April 2017.
also, working in the winter could be difficult.
They can do a roof like in Milwaukee - it's retractable but it doesnt make the stadium climate controlled when the roof is closed. There is glass panels in the roof as well to allow the natural grass field to grow.
And a cynic could go further and suggest that Rogers ask for public money to help finance the costs since the dome is a proven performer from a sports-entertainment-tourism standpoint and home to a two-time World Series winner.
Say, $10 million. Just to mess with the Argos.
i wonder what the athlete tax in Toronto brings in annually?
i wonder if they could dangle that as a reason get this clear rough on the Gov't dime.
i think this project would cost more than 10 million.
to dispose of the old roof, install the new roof, at those heights...and those weather conditions.
Last edited by Wagner; 03-30-2015 at 01:59 PM.
These Americans should love their sports and willing to build beautiful stadiums for their sport teams while in Canada all our stadiums are crap look like high school/community college stadium (BMO field, Saputo Stadium, THF etc..).It doesn't have to be an open facility all the time. There are options for them. They could re-clad the outer skin on the roof with clear ETFE plastic panels. Translucent panels of ETFE surround the Allianz Arena in Munich, but an entire rugby stadium is housed under an ETFE ceiling in Otago, New Zealand with a grass field growing beneath it.
It's not just a fair-weather climate solution either. Minnesota Vikings new football stadium will also feature large ceiling areas of ETFE as well, though they'll play on plastic.
The technology exists for Rogers to refurbish the dome quite nicely - including drainage and ventilation - for a grass field and it makes abundant sense to do so. They own the stadium, the team and the network(s) that telecast the games.
One could be cynical and suggest that since the Argos have such scant fan support, just leave the stadium in baseball mode and fit the field onto the grass. Fans can sit wherever it works for them, just like they did at old CNE stadium.
I assume you meant roof?
Whatever it costs, I can see justification for it because of the vertical integration Rogers enjoys. I can also see justification for it because, despite all the bellyaching from CFL fans and a few others, it is still a fine facility in a great location with huge significance for this city's image. A few sensible modifications would make it even more viable moving forward. Just look at how well the new centre field bar has worked. Put a clear roof it and it would create a whole new curiosity factor for tepid fans.
If I was a city councillor, I could make more sense of kicking a few million into this project than I could spending nickel one on the Argos.
That's just throwing good money after bad.
you are correct.
my brain went off the rails there.
Yes, and we should be glad we have only rarely been suckered in by stadium scams going after public money. Like this article says, "just three of the NFL's 31 stadiums were originally built without public funds. In two of those cases, public funding was later used to upgrade the stadium or surrounding facilities, even as all 32 of the NFL's teams ranked among Forbes' 50 most valuable sporting franchises in the world in 2012."
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...adiums/260900/
What we need to ask is why the private companies are so unwilling to invest in stadiums. If TFC is going to get as successful as we all expect they will, why isn't MLSE building them a proper stadium on land they own? We really shouldn't be having any of these Argos-to-BMO discussions at all.
Cost of a new stadium would be upwards of $500 million, for a 45K one.
I'm suspecting MLSE to build a stadium up at Downsview around 2025 for 60K.
Simple.
You don't get rich by spending your own money.
You're probably right.
But it will be interesting to see how it goes with the team owners also being the exclusive broadcaster (or whatever we call selling the online access). The same company makes all the money whether we're at the stadium or watching on whatever we're watching on.
Sums up the whole thread, we'll done!...... I distrust Mr. Braley.. Buy cheap, sell for profit and don't contribute a damn thing.
SkyDome was purpose built for both the Argos and the Blue Jays, at the Argos request, and with huge public subsidy. It isn't the field fit there that is the issue.
You missed the point on that conversation. Rogers Centre will be locked in baseball configuration if they install grass, and a CFL field will not fit.
His post was to explain why the CFL teams can't share with baseball without changing the stadium dimensions.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
OK, undestanpd the point but not sure why we have to concede it. "Some marginal parts of the baseball field may suffer from a few hours of no sun due to the moving of stands for football"
Do not see that issue as determanitive about the Dome - the real issue is the impact of football games on the bounce of the baseball on the grass.
Is it just me or is BMO Field starting to look a lot like the soulless Exhibition Stadium?
People still have problems seeing the forest for the trees eh? (or the grass from the field as it were)
The Argos are being kicked out of the dome for 1 reason, and it has nothing to do with grass or configurations. The dome is owned by Rogers communications. Rogers communications owns a TV station called sportsnet that shows 162 Blue Jays games a year. The most valuable days to show/host games are friday and saturdays. The CFL plays on Fridays and Saturdays. The CFL is not shown on a channel Rogers Communications owns. In fact, it directly competes with them. By allowing the Argos to play in Skydome rent free, Rogers is effectively helping it's competitor out by hosting the very event it's team is competing against for eye balls/advertising dollars (it's not like the Argos usually play on Jays off days. Just road trips), and by the nature of housing both the teams, it prevents direct competition. Additionally controlling the venue allows Rogers to ensure the Argos don't regain their previous attendance ways (look back on that Argos attendance table from a few pages ago. Before the Skydome the lowest attendance over a season was like 24k. After the skydome they were below that mark the majority of the time. Also it's no coincidence the Argos continue to get SHITE dates from the Dome. I bet NYCFC don't have the same problem of playing games on a Tuesday, on the road for 3 weeks, then a monday night, a thursday night, the next wed, the road for 6 weeks type schedule)
MLSE doesn't want to buy the Argos for the EXACT same reason. Why does Rogers want to compete against itself from an ownership standpoint (where at best it will be a neutral investment and a loss from a TV revenue perspective, while providing Bell a big big win)? Why would they?
This whole issue has nothing to do with TFC, MLS, the Argos or the CFL. It's just Bell vs Rogers, and they've managed to sucker fans into taking up their causes (both ways). Think about it from a prisoners dilemma point of view.
Rogers has 4 choices:
Allow the Argos to stay at the skydome: Plus for Rogers- good PR with CFL fans, do a favour for pro CFL politicians, keep a bargaining chip for dealing with Bell at a later date. Cons- helping a bell product and enabling a team directly competing with their own in the same marketplace.
kick the Argos out of the skydome, no BMO, no MLSE takeover: Plus for Rogers- hurts a bell product, limits competition against the blue jays in the summer. Allow extra cap expenses into upgrading the dome. Cons- serious negative PR for CFL fans, and potentially fans of other sports (if Rogers would do that to the Argos just to help win a battle against Bell, what would they do to a team WITHOUT the huge TV ratings/140 years of history/political support). Damage their relationship with Bell in MLSE
kick the argos out of skydome, go to BMO, no mlse takeover: Plus for Rogers- additional revenues to share from BMO field. Better relationship with Bell in MLSE Minus: no bargaining chips with Bell, continued competition for airtime vs blue jays (with now the potential of Argos home games AND TFC home games drawing fans away from baseball), and the potential of revitalizing the Argos so they can actually start to draw advertising dollars and maybe even jaded Jays fans to the Argos
kick the argos out of skydome, go to BMO, mlse takeover: Plus for Rogers- additional revenues from BMO, GREAT relationship with Bell in MLSE. Potential profits to share. Negatives, same as above.
It doesn't take a brain engineer to figure out which one of the 4 options would benefit Rogers the most. The only way the Argos go to BMO is if enough outside political pressure is put on Rogers to mitigate all the potential risks for their products and how it emboldens their rival. Is pressure from Bell/various levels of governments/the CFL/advertisers enough to sway them? We'll see. Ultimately money talks, so really the interesting negotiations we'll never see. If I was Rogers forget what MLSE is negotiating with Braley. I want to know what Bell is guaranteeing me before I sign off on anything. Am I getting any CFL rights or advertising dollars? How am I making money off this deal? Other than some good PR what's my 'win' for letting the Argos in?
I don't really have any point to this other than the idea that this is Argos vs TFC is ridiculous/stupid and petty. Argos/TFC (and for that matter Jays/Leafs and Raptors) fans should really be uniting against the massive monolythic duopoly that own sports in the city and can't find their ass with both hands, a map and an industrial search light. The fans and the sports teams are all on the same side, we're all getting screwed. It's the owners who are scum and pitting us against each other. And we fall for it like suckers. Fuck Rogers and fuck Bell.
Nah...Blue Jays can't compete for free agents as long as they have turf. They've been told that. Players talk about the turf. That's why grass is coming to the Dome.
Any other motive is just supposition.
Actually that's a false statement. Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys. He built the stadium with his own bare hands lol...It was called Cowboys Stadium for 3 or 4 seasons before they got AT&T to pony up, so he reaped the benefits. Not that he isn't now of course lol
using comparison to the NFL is not a good one.......I had read a year or 2 ago that each and every NFL stadium can be empty every game and the league (ie. owners) would still make money due to their TV contract.......I don't know the figures, but I think its pretty safe to say such is not the case for the CFL......this is why guys like Jerry Jones can make 1B dollar stadiums......they know eventually its coming back, plus more.......
I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. The stands won't be able to move from the baseball position during the baseball season if grass is installed at Rogers Centre. Therefore you can't play football there because the football field won't fit.
Each team received almost 190m in TV revenue, and the NFL Salary Cap at 133m last season.
well there you go......thanks for the numbers......so if I knew that I could put approx. 60M in my back pocket without even turning the light switch on, I'd be a bit more adventurous in what I want to do with my stadium too.......
my big deal with the whole situation is that BMO Field is more than sustainable with TFC being the only main user, at the moment.....but to draw any comparisons to the NFL regarding surface, roofs, stands, etc., is just wrong.....
I see what you are getting at, something like ANZ Stadium. Which is believe is grass or some sort of hybrid, I actually had posted this before when suggesting that the surface at BMO field remain grass (or grass-master throughout) the stadium instead of switching to turf in the endzones for CFL, and using that sort of retractable/telescopic seating.
I believe the cost to implement such a system like ANZ Stadium may be way to prohibited for Rogers, unless of course the NFL was playing out of the Skydome. See Video below for ANZ Stadium
Last edited by Mulder; 04-01-2015 at 08:21 AM.
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