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    Default Argos to BMO decision - Wednesday, May 20th

    Another Argos to BMO thread since we got the news last week. Let's keep it on topic the best we can in here. Thanks.


    http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...y-summer.html#


    What are peoples opinions on how this decision will be handled if it goes through?

    Will there be some gladhanding press conference for celebrating Argos fans or will it be a Canada Press release that they hope most of us don't notice?
    Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 02-23-2015 at 10:24 AM.
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    What is the historic ratio of users banned per Argo thread? It used to be pretty high, feels like we're slipping these days ...
    “We can easily forgive the child who is afraid of the dark - the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light” - Plato

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    The Argos need a sugar daddy - somebody willing to lose $3- 10 million a year just to run their own toy. Braley isn't it. Nor is Tannenbaum. Nor is MLSE.


    The best long term hope for TFC control of their own stadium is either

    a) we grow so big that a move out of BMO is the only way to keep up with demand (i.e. if there is demand for 45K + per game)
    That's not so radical an idea when Seattle is beginning the feelers to create their own SSS to build a 60K space only a few years after starting up in the home the Seahawks took over. Think about this scenario. Its 2022. TFC is averaging 30K a season with lots of demand. Do you build up to 40K and maximise the space? Or do you find a space at Downsview and build a 45k space with flexibility to go to 60K and leave the Argos behind?

    b) Argo ownership wants to keep the profits of concessions and sees the wisdom behind building their own space


    I think the pointy heads at MLSE are thinking a is far more likely.

    2030 - New Stadium
    Last edited by OgtheDim; 02-23-2015 at 10:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    What is the historic ratio of users banned per Argo thread? It used to be pretty high, feels like we're slipping these days ...
    I'm still shocked as to how many threads there are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The Argos need a sugar daddy - somebody willing to lose $3- 10 million a year just to run their own toy. Braley isn't it. Nor is Tannenbaum. Nor is MLSE.


    The best long term hope for TFC control of their own stadium is either

    a) we grow so big that a move out of BMO is the only way to keep up with demand (i.e. if there is demand for 45K + per game)
    That's not so radical an idea when Seattle is beginning the feelers to create their own SSS to build a 60K space only a few years after starting up in the home the Seahawks took over. Think about this scenario. Its 2022. TFC is averaging 30K a season with lots of demand. Do you build up to 40K and maximise the space? Or do you find a space at Downsview and build a 45k space with flexibility to go to 60K and leave the Argos behind?

    b) Argo ownership wants to keep the profits of concessions and sees the wisdom behind building their own space
    Agree on all points but if I could add that Braley shouldn't have to be a sugar daddy for not one but 2 teams in such a small league. I feel for him on that score.
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    Why summer 2015? Argos got plenty of time to make a deal to move to BMO field (Their lease with Rogers Centre ends in Dec 2017)

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    It's a federal election year.
    Maybe the Argos can get that $10 million and use it to expand the stadium at York U.
    Also could get more money into the University for other stuff, like practice facilities etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    It's a federal election year.
    Maybe the Argos can get that $10 million and use it to expand the stadium at York U.
    Also could get more money into the University for other stuff, like practice facilities etc.
    I don't think Feds are going to contribute any money especially with oil prices being down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Agree on all points but if I could add that Braley shouldn't have to be a sugar daddy for not one but 2 teams in such a small league. I feel for him on that score.
    This is true. Braley is simply a caretaker owner who is running Argos until someone steps up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The Argos need a sugar daddy - somebody willing to lose $3- 10 million a year just to run their own toy. Braley isn't it. Nor is Tannenbaum. Nor is MLSE.
    It will probably come down to how important is the CFL to TSN, and therefore Bell. The TV business in this country has always taken place behind closed doors between a few players. A deal will be made and we'll be told about it when it's done. As always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    This is true. Braley is simply a caretaker owner who is running Argos until someone steps up.
    Holy Crap! He took them on in 2010!?! It's been 4 seasons of caretaking...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFC07 View Post
    Why summer 2015? Argos got plenty of time to make a deal to move to BMO field (Their lease with Rogers Centre ends in Dec 2017)
    They do but I used their timeframe from the article.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beach_Red View Post
    It will probably come down to how important is the CFL to TSN, and therefore Bell. The TV business in this country has always taken place behind closed doors between a few players. A deal will be made and we'll be told about it when it's done. As always.
    So you don't expect any fanfare over this? As bias as I am I'm still aware of the tens of thousands it will make happy...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    So you don't expect any fanfare over this? As bias as I am I'm still aware of the tens of thousands it will make happy...
    Once the decision is made there will be plenty of fanfare (marketing) if it goes that way. But there's a lot of politics because it's an east-west split. I think what happens to the Argos is a minor part of a larger negotiation between these media companies. In the TV business the idea of Canadian content used to be sacrosanct (because the CRTC made is so) but it isn't anymore. It's just a matter of how quickly it bleeds out and is finally gone completely from the private broadcasters.

    So, if the Argos die and the CFL suffers because of it and Bell loses that Canadian content and there are no consequences it could be an important step (Bell would like to be rid of all its Canadian content, I think). That's why I think there's a very good chance we'll never see the Argos at BMO. It's kind of a canary in the coal mine for other issues.

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    A picture speaks a thousand words, so here are a few thousand, do we really want this?






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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Holy Crap! He took them on in 2010!?! It's been 4 seasons of caretaking...
    Yet Bob Young refers to himself of the Caretaker of the Ticats. OMG That's 12 seasons of caretaking......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    A picture speaks a thousand words, so here are a few thousand, do we really want this?





    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.
    Well, the pictures are of MLS teams dealing with pointy ball lines, I don't see the difference as the CFL basically uses the same markings that the NFL does.
    However I'll try and find some Vancouver stuff for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    Yet Bob Young refers to himself of the Caretaker of the Ticats. OMG That's 12 seasons of caretaking......


    So if there was a contest of desperation for ownership are you saying Hamilton is winning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    Well, the pictures are of MLS teams dealing with pointy ball lines, I don't see the difference as the CFL basically uses the same markings that the NFL does.
    However I'll try and find some Vancouver stuff for you.
    Don't bother, you won't find anything on the scale of the Revs and Sounders pics posted above.

    You wont have a Revs/Sounders situation as the CFL pitch is wider and longer so no white markings on the side of the pitch and the end zone would be behind the penalty area.

    I've asked a few Caps fans if they have ever had a situation like Revs and Sounders have and they haven't. Faded markings similar to the Houston pitch you posted but nothing on the scale of Revs and Sounders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Petor View Post
    Well, the pictures are of MLS teams dealing with pointy ball lines, I don't see the difference as the CFL basically uses the same markings that the NFL does.
    However I'll try and find some Vancouver stuff for you.
    The point was that CFL doesn't do as much damage as NFL. Which is true but the difference is not enough to be acceptable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    Don't bother, you won't find anything on the scale of the Revs and Sounders pics posted above.

    You wont have a Revs/Sounders situation as the CFL pitch is wider and longer so no white markings on the side of the pitch and the end zone would be behind the penalty area.

    I've asked a few Caps fans if they have ever had a situation like Revs and Sounders have and they haven't. Faded markings similar to the Houston pitch you posted but nothing on the scale of Revs and Sounders.
    Yes, like Houston.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post

    So if there was a contest of desperation for ownership are you saying Hamilton is winning?
    You clearly misunderstand the concept of being a caretaker for a century old institution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    The point was that CFL doesn't do as much damage as NFL. Which is true but the difference is not enough to be acceptable.
    I'm being pedantic tbh. Not saying it's acceptable either.

    Given there is already a CFL/MLS groundshare in existence. Any talk of markings/paint etc should revolve around that and not the Sounders or Revs imo.

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    Caps vs SKC - Aug 10, 2014 - two days after the Lions played the TiCats

    watch the highlights here - http://www.mlssoccer.com/video/2014/...august-10-2014


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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    The Argos need a sugar daddy - somebody willing to lose $3- 10 million a year just to run their own toy. Braley isn't it. Nor is Tannenbaum. Nor is MLSE.


    The best long term hope for TFC control of their own stadium is either

    a) we grow so big that a move out of BMO is the only way to keep up with demand (i.e. if there is demand for 45K + per game)
    That's not so radical an idea when Seattle is beginning the feelers to create their own SSS to build a 60K space only a few years after starting up in the home the Seahawks took over. Think about this scenario. Its 2022. TFC is averaging 30K a season with lots of demand. Do you build up to 40K and maximise the space? Or do you find a space at Downsview and build a 45k space with flexibility to go to 60K and leave the Argos behind?

    b) Argo ownership wants to keep the profits of concessions and sees the wisdom behind building their own space


    I think the pointy heads at MLSE are thinking a is far more likely.

    2030 - New Stadium
    That's been their business plan since the '80s. How's that working for them?

    Interesting to note that current owner Braley has actually been involved in owning the Argos for much longer than when he officially took over in 2010. He gave previous owners Cynamon and Sokolowski half of their meagre $2 million purchase price in 2003 and covered half their annual operating losses. He's been taking on the full financial debacle since 2010.

    The market has spoken loudly and clearly for decades. The Argos have gone from first down to face down.

    If you took all the money that Braley has pissed away over the years trying to run this club - plus all the government handouts at Grey Cup time - and put it into building a proper home for the Argos and a showcase for Canadian football in general, they'd have a sound base to operate from.

    But no one connected with this league has shown any sense of vision or ambition in running the Argos. If MLSE take over the Argos, it is only going to be on the basis that they are confident of acquiring a NFL franchise in the foreseeable future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    You clearly misunderstand the concept of being a caretaker for a century old institution.
    Is that it? Did you want to define it for us or just retort?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    For the sake of accuracy can you find any pictures of the caps playing on a pitch with BC Lions stuff and CFL markers on it?

    Given that we will be likely sharing with a CFL team not an NFL team.
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?

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    I don't get it. "Braley meeting with Tanenbaum" isn't a news item, that's a meeting between a guy with no money, and a guy with no authority.

    I don't see Rogers agreeing to anything that's good for TSN/Bell, so this has to be imposed on MLSE (ie it won't be done with their consent).

    Which means there has to be public money to make it happen. Which strikes me as unlikely.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-23-2015 at 11:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    I didn't notice any when I was there, or the Fury playing on a pitch with Redblacks markings. They do a pretty good job of removing them. However, both those are turf and not grass, so I don't know if you could use the same cleaner or not.

    As for the number of games the Argos would play at BMO, they would only play 9 home games (with practice held elsewhere) over 20 weeks, 10 at most with a playoff game included. That's one game every two weeks, and nothing before the end of June so TFC would have a pristine pitch for at least half the season. I don't think that's so bad. The Houston Stadium has weekly football games, doesn't it?
    But it would be a dog run when the most important games take place towards the end of the season and into the playoffs.

    What about when TFC once again start playing CONCACAF Champions League games in mid-week from August on? We've had some really good games against top Mexican sides with technical level of play not often seen in MLS games. The ball's on the deck and the passing and movement has been a cut above. Best of all, our players have routinely raised their games to compete with superior talent.

    We could also see CFL games impair the quality of play if our national teams choose to play at BMO or when top international sides come in for friendlies.

 

 

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