I am fully behind an Academy development model. 10 months of the year, higher ratio of training to games, no promo and relegation, no standings for parents, start 'em as early as 8. All good.
NCAA isn't guaranteed but it isn't crap. Whoop posted a great set of links to the future of US soccer and this one spoke to the College game:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...e-college-game
9 men on the USMNT came the NCAA route.
MLS Academies are full of hype and unrealized potential. Interestingly, ours is developing players to fit a mold that Mariner has abandoned and stepped further away from in bringing in Hassli (who couldn't play Vancouver's 4-3-3). The players you mention, aside from Morgan could easily be replaced or bettered by a player coming from the US system. Of course, I can't back that up and you can't challenge it because we don't scout there and haven't drafted in the first round in 2010 and 2011 in order to bring them in.
In fact, in 2010 there were 4 rounds and we walked away with 2 picks. (trading the 1st rounder for Adrian Serioux and the 3rd rounder for Nick Garcia and the rights to Ali Gerba).
Even if we do develop these players through the academy, they still go to NCAA. I can't remember the striker we had in our academy team last year or the year before, but he went to NCAA.
This year we are losing Omari Morris and Jay Chapman.
Omari's going to Akron, can't blame the guy - going to an established program.
I think this is a very good trade. Having Hassli will at least give us a fighting chance in CCL and Improve our very small chance of making the playoffs.
Obviously there was no chance of us getting Del Piero or theres no way the FO would have let the Hassli deal go through. With a week left before the trade deadline Mariner probley had next to nothing happening on the striker front so this deal made sense.
The fact that next year is our option is what really clinches this deal for me. Well done Mariner.
Not all gold, no. But the NCAA draft still produces far, far more MLS regulars than any academy has. Every draft in every sport has it's share of busts.
I'm hopeful that one day club academies can supplant the NCAA draft as the primary means of creating new MLS players, but we aren't even close to being there yet.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
I agree. According to Mariner, we have gotten a DP spot and some of the money back. Hassli is the cheap fix, for shortsighted success. Our front office decided it was a better idea to get a quick fix DP (who may be gone at the end of this season, if Koev returns next year), giving up a vital buildingblock, than to sign a non-dp striker that can get us by until Koev returns.
He is helping us do well in a season that means nothing. After the horrible start, this season should be taken as next years preseason. Building for the next season, and the seasons after that. Losing a first round pick for an old, out of favor DP leaves us taking the crappy end of the deal. The way Vancouver is building actually makes me jealous. If they have good enough young talent to knock their DP out of favor (who seems to be a pretty good DP) then they are doing something right. And to get a first rounder out of the deal just means that they get another great young talent who could be a key player in a couple seasons.
Last edited by razor787; 07-21-2012 at 01:23 AM.
So I'm just imagining: Hassli does well and TFC somehow manages to keep him for next year. Hassli scores the goals that puts TFC past the Whitecaps in the Voyageur's Cup. Perhaps with one of those goals assisted by Dunfield. Perhaps Hassli even uses his hand a bit in setting up one of those goals but the ref doesn't notice.
Can you imagine the scale of the meltdown by the Whitecaps fans?
When Chiumento left and Hassli lamented it on mlssoccer.com, I thought the "ankle injury" sounded awfully like, "I'm not playing for this bastard anymore, trade me right fucking now."
Then I thought, "With Koevermans out, I wonder if TFC...." Then i thought, 'Naaaah, Hassli won't come here."
To whoever compared this to Nick Garcia: That's like comparing a Cadillac to a rebuilt Trabant. Sweet Jesus, where do people come up with this stuff?
Hassli is one of the best strikers in the league. Rennie didn't like Petulant Frenchmen and traded away Le toux and Hassli. I get that Mattocks is a freak of nature, but I don't think Vancouver's going to look back fondly on this.
lol. Even a strict comparison between a Cadillac and a rebuilt Trabant isn't apt. Unless you add that TFC was stuck with the Trabant until it died before being able to replace it with another car. Eric Hassli's contract ends before next year's summer transfer window opens:
http://www.prosoccer.ch/movies/players/hassli-ericcontract expiration30.06.13
Others in this thread have stated that the contract has a team option at the end of the 2012 MLS season as well:
Last edited by BayernTFC; 07-21-2012 at 01:37 AM.
After few Hassli wonder strikes, I'm sure you'd change your tune
It is a gamble, but I think it's a low risk, potentially high pay off gamble.
The 1st rounder is in 2014. I think Mariner for sure has playoffs by end of next season. Or else he'd be fired anyways, so he takes a risk with this trade hoping that Hassli pays big. If TFC does make the playoffs, that first rounder will end up being somewhere around 10-14th pick, and after first 10 picks, the draft becomes more of a crap shoot anyways.
The worst case is that Hassli turns out to be more inconsistent finisher than Chad Barrett with Cunningham's whinyness and Kevin Harse's temper. If this is the case, then TFC release Hassli at the end of the season and goes shopping for a new player with the 350k cap space. Or players.
The good case is that Hassli does well enough, and TFC now has a choice at the end of season whether to keep younger Hassli as DP and buys out Danny K, or even keep Danny K and hope that he can regain his fitness despite his age. Either way, TFC has options to decide which way they want to go.
The best case is Hassli scores like ten goals and TFC makes the playoffs despite the odds and Eric the Red leads TFC to MLS Cup victory, while bombing MLS with wonder goals like confetti.
I think Hassli is motivated to prove that he's not junk. Yes, his strike rate is that of Chad Barrett right now (1 goal every 4 games ish) but I honestly think he's got the tools to be a good MLS striker. Rennie's 4-3-3/4-5-1 clearly does not fit Hassli (though even with limited mins, he's got 2 goals 3 assists) and last year he played for inept Teitur Tots and that retarded sock puppet Tommy Soehn, even though they played 4-4-2. I think Hassli can fit well under Mariner's 4-4-2 which is almost customed to Hassli's game. He does tend to score in bunches, but I think a motivator like Mariner can get the best out of Hassli, who on his best games will rip any defender in MLS apart. Find him and his horse raising Yankee wife a farm on the outskirts of Toronto and he'd be happy enough.
I also like that he's got great relationship with supporters, and is the kind of guy who'd do well in TFC locker room.
Anything to throw more shit on Southsiders face. They are more annoying than Crew supporters.
Eric the Red. Potential TFC legend. Belive it!
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Based on this interview I think Hassli may become a HUGE fan favourite (meaning: he appreciates supporters)!
Was the injury news on Hassli just a way to reduce the expectations of Whitecaps fans or soften the blow of losing a player like Eric? Maybe it was a way to insure Eric wouldn't get injured while discussions were ongoing?:
http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/m...preview-071912Originally Posted by Ives Galarcep
Sometimes things in MLS have a staged feel to them.
Last edited by BayernTFC; 07-21-2012 at 02:07 AM.
I like what Eric Hassli brings and, overall, I'm fine with the deal. I'm a little disappointed that Paul Mariner couldn't have gotten the better of Martin Rennie and offered less for a player clearly out of favour. I still think a first-round MLS SuperDraft pick is a valuable asset and an international spot through 2013 is significant. TFC didn't receive that much in return for our surplus DP. However, there is this to consider:
I would have preferred to see Mariner reduce the logjam in our backfield, instead of sacrificing a draft pick and an international spot, but there is still time:
http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/conten...nd-regulations(D) TRADES
Players, SuperDraft and Supplemental draft picks, allocation money, allocation rankings, and international player slots may all be exchanged in trades approved by the MLS League Office, provided all of the necessary rules regarding roster and salary budget compliance are met and the trade is completed during a valid trading period. No trades may occur after the Roster Freeze Deadline of September 15, 2012 at 5 p.m. ET.
Can Mariner move some of the MLS talent on TFC's roster and get back a draft pick and/or an international spot? The international summer transfer window is closing soon, but the MLS Roster Freeze Deadline is on September 15, 2012 at 5 p.m. ET.
Last edited by BayernTFC; 07-21-2012 at 02:30 AM.
Essentially Mariner traded JDG and 1st rd pick 2014 for Hassli and Wiedeman. I think he's done well to find someone to take JDG in the first place. Mariner might have gotten Hassli for less before Koevermans got injured, but Rennie had more leverage once it was revealed that Koevermans had season ending injury.
Why would Vancouver take one of TFC's reserve defenders? Who in right mind would? lol. Not all MLS managers/GMs are retards lol
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Not sure what to make of this. The two explanations are that they are so desparate to have a respectable finish to the season for season ticket sales reasons that they are willing to sacrifice the future for that short term objective or Koevermans injury is so bad that they think his career is probably over.
fixed:
The Whitecaps traded Eric Hassli, the 31-year-old French striker, to Toronto on Friday afternoon, in exchange for a first-round pick in the 2014 MLS SuperDraft and an international spot through 2013.http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Whitecaps+trade+Eric+Hassli+Toronto/6967436/story.htmlOverall, I like both deals. You make a good point about Danny's injury making things more difficult for Mariner.
It breaks down to being pretty much that, I agree.
lol. That's a good point. I was hoping that if one of our young, inexpensive defenders is going to struggle to get time here(perhaps not be in TFC's future), then Mariner might have been able to protect an asset. Perhaps he could have saved offering the international spot? Logan Emory, Dicoy Williams and Aaron Mound are younger players who don't cost much. If any other defenders come in, who will make room? it's not likely TFC can move Ty Harden or Adrian Cann, and neither is seeing any minutes right now anyways.
The more I've mulled this deal, the more I like it. We don't give up our first rounder this year, which is likely to be a high pick, and if Hassli makes us a better team next year, then the pick will be a low one for Vancouver in 2014. And as the MLS draft can be a bit of a crapshoot past the top 3-4 players every year, it'll sting a lot less if it's a low pick.
So we trade the pick away in that situation, for a guy who fills a need, and who undoubtedly has a high ceiling as a player, when all of his pistons are firing. It makes a lot of sense from our end.
If anything, Vancouver might have given him up kind of cheaply. Though there's some theorizing that this move is a precursor to another big move from Vancouver, for a DP (possibly Bocanegra). If that's the case, then it's a win-win deal for both teams.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
The added significance of the pick being from the 2014 draft is that there is quite some time available to trade for a replacement pick. It is MLS, and there are more ways to make a trade than just for players. Let's see if Mariner can score some allocation, draft picks or international spots for TFC. If TFC doesn't plan to use their allocation ranking, perhaps they can get something for it?
Plus, he already has MLS experience. VWFC spent the time to break him in, so it's a move that should theoretically require less adjustment from a player perspective.
I'm hearing some grumbling coming out of Vancouver over the timing of the Kenny Miller signing and the Eric Hassli trade, and whether VWFC will get charged a "luxury tax" by MLS for having 3 DPs at one point. I'd be interested to hear what the final word on that is.
TFC has the team option year on Hassli, but I just hope he wants to be here past this year. On twitter, there were some talk that he just bought a house for his wife in Vancouver, his best friend was transferred out of Vancouver, etc.
I hope he enjoys playing for TFC, the fans will surely enjoy his effort.
In which bizarro MLS is this true? He's never had a great goal-scoring record in MLS, got benched in both years he played with the Whitecaps and for every highlight-reel goal there were three games where he did not score, hold up the ball, make good runs or work hard. TFC obviously needs someone to play up front, but hopefully they don't lose out on a longer-term solution at CB because of the lost DP and international slot. Not to mention that the three first-round draft picks this year for the Canadian teams were Silva, Mattocks and Wegner, three pretty good looking players that show that those picks are not just throw-ins.
I would offer that if you are Mariner, you make the deal. Hassli should fit in well with his system and we definitely need a striker.
However, there are a couple of scenarios where the price of this deal becomes incredibly high.
1) Koevermans returns in 2013, ready to go. While a healthy Hassli-Koevermans duo sounds terrific, is it the best of the DP slot when our CB position is still likely not solidified? If Hassli does not return for the 2013 season, this is an expensive price to pay for a "fan favourite" in a season with no tangible results other than making fans somewhat happier
2) Early start to Mariner's coaching career aside, in going with Hassli through 2013 who fell out of favour for not being able to press high in Vancouver's 4-3-3, you have essentially set the course for 2013. Any talk of Mariner being able to adapt and alter his system is now just that, talk. As other teams implement and improve upon their 4-3-3 styles, what you see is what you get with TFC. A "look for forwards first" system that will be built around a then 32 year old and possibly a 34 year old coming off ACL survey.
The chips are now "all in", let's hope he has the cards.
This is the problem that we already talked about,our academy system is set up for 433 formation and now it's obvious Mariner will stick to his 442,our academy players will have a difficult times to get into 1st team.
The exceptional talented academy players like Aleman will opt out and go oversees before they sign with TFC/MLS,good once will have a chance to choose between TFC/MLS $40K per year or get education and further development in the system they already know(4-3-3)with NCAA scholarship that at Boston University is around $55K(that's the reason why K.Becker did not come to TFC,we offered him less than his annual scholarship was worth) and still have a chance to go MLS trough the draft.
Time will tell,I would not put big hopes on our academy boys now,even T,Rongen said, it will take 5 years to see 1st results from TFC academy,until than is all hit and miss.
I just don't get how some people think formation decides everything. Formation means nothing. You really think all our academy players will say 'Oops, that's a 4-4-2 on the 1st squad. I can't play that. I'll have to search out the B leagues of Europe to find another 4-3-3 team'. As mentioned by others KC & Van switched to a 4-3-3 just like we did under Cummins and it makes little difference. The tactics will but not the formation.
And for our academy, it's not knowing a formation that matters, it's technical ability, knowledge, and passing accuracy that will matter and that's what most MLS and even more NCAA players don't have. That is what will start to change our squad when the academy grads mature. Plus, hopefully, it will help the CMNT.
Like I've said...I like the deal because there is a lot of control in TFC's hands when it comes to Hassli.
But I'm pretty confused about some people's take on the draft pick.
People seem to be happy that the pick is not the 2013 first rounder because, I assume, they don't want to give up a high pick considering we're going to finish low this year. Some people are happy that it's a 2014 pick instead because Hassli is going to make us better and we shouldn't be picking very high in 2014.
That all makes sense to me.
But why would anyone be happy that it's not the 2013 pick (because they wanna pick high in the super draft this year) and still be happy that Hassli can help us this year? Are we looking to continue to climb the table this year? If so, why?
Are we happy that the trade is not going to cost us a high pick (which it may if Hassli helps us this year) or are we happy that we got a replacement for Koevermans this year that will continue to keep us "competitive"?
Which is it? Because we can't have both.
LOL