@Montreal Post-Game

[ensco]

It has the potential to be more than musical chairs.

I think it's certain to be more than musical chairs.

[Kilgore Trout]

I wouldn't put money on this team going perfect for long stretches during MLS play. I don't know what it'll take to keep fans interest, but players should be fighting for jobs and the chance at Canadian Championship play now.

I don't think this team needs to go perfect for long stretches during MLS play. With the top 5 teams from the east going through, TFC just needs to be better than five teams that are hardly terrific in themselves. A solid home record (no more losses especially important), a couple of opportune road wins, and a few draws on the road, and TFC can make the playoffs. 4 straight losses is a detriment but in no way eliminates TFC from playoff contention. TFC is 6 points out of even 2nd place right now. This is the MLS. You can count on teams like Columbus, DC, Philadelphia, Chicago, New England, and Montreal to put own their own occasional horrorshows (Columbus just went down 0-2 at home inside the opening 15 minutes). 4 losses look awful because they all came together, at the start of the season. TFC is one win and one player away from being right in the contest for 5th or 4th place.

I'd agree with the playoff pessimism if this was the Western conference, but it isn't. TFC has the offense to score goals and just need Frings back and, in the absence of a defender coming in, at least Cann/Williams and the team can eliminate the sort of mistakes that led to these last three losses. Hell, today's game would have been a draw at least with just Cann in for Harden. Cann isn't amazing, but he doesn't make that backheel 'clearance' there. No way this team with just one solid CB and Frings loses that game to Columbus, or leaks three goals to SJ.

I'm not blind to how bad aspects of this team are. I'm only saying that the club as a whole is only two injury returns away from a team that simply does not give up games like this one or last week's.

[BayernTFC]

Ty Harden put Emory in a really bad position, which led to Emory's red -- although if Emory lets the player run, I'd take my chances with Kocic making the save. But it's pretty much the same thing De Guz did against Santos, but outside the box.

My first impression was that Emory touched the ball before the Montreal player went down.

[Kilgore Trout]

My first impression was that Emory touched the ball before the Montreal player went down.

He got the ball, and didn't make all that much contact, either. These are the sorts of things that really make me wish football would get on board with video replay. It's not just disallowed goals; it's these major, incorrect decisions that are made in so, so many matches. I'd rather have a just game than one with fewer interruptions.

[stuart.mac]

Awful performance against a Montreal side that only really looked threatening on the break.

However great away support, singing throughout the game right til the end. Best away support by far!

[TFC Cityboy]

just got back to the hotel. Having a fantastic wqeekend in a wonderfully friendly Montreal Very disappointed with the manner of the defeat. For those watching on tv barely half the team could be arsed to come and applaud the fantastic travelling support. For those who did (Kocic made the biggest effort) we thank you and appreciate it. For those who sloped straight off you do not deserve this support. Toronto FC does not deserve this level of support.

OK- back to the drinking!

[spe18]

He got the ball, and didn't make all that much contact, either. These are the sorts of things that really make me wish football would get on board with video replay. It's not just disallowed goals; it's these major, incorrect decisions that are made in so, so many matches. I'd rather have a just game than one with fewer interruptions.

Looking at the replays, it looks like Emory didn't get any ball, all player. And as it's been pointed out in the other thread, the red card is because he was the last defender that prevented a breakaway scoring chance. Jason De Vos also says the referee made the correct call........

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter...videoID=181506

[boban]

It has the potential to be more than musical chairs. I can say that when Bell took over CTV they made fundamental changes - it's still a question if they were the right changes, but that's a different issue (like the Leafs situation, they made probably the right move of hiring a presidemt/GM, they just hired the wrong guy).

The TFC situation really looks as though Mariner and Winter were hired but given little to no say over the big decisions. As Oldtimer says, the team looks to be built around Frings - probably a Klinsmann decision.

It's all speculation, of course, but it really looks like the management structure here isn't really working. No one in management has really taken control of the team and put their stamp on it and there's really no way anyone can - would it be Mariner or Winter? Did either of them have the authority to buy out JDG's contract? Did either of them sign Frings?

But that is Bell's business. Sports it's not. In the pressers when they announced their purchase they mentioned how they want to levergae the sports entity to grow thier buinsesses (mobile, tv, internet). There was nothing about them winning on the field of pay for the sake of winning.
In terms of MLSE they are another seat at the boardroom table. That's it. MLSE will continue as a faceless entity. We need a new deck, not the shuffling of it!!!!!!

[iy12l]

Dunfield, JDG, and Harden seriously need to get the boot. Next game against chivas i dont wanna see anyone of there 3 dumbasses in the 11. Since Emory is red carded we have to play this lineup if we want a win

-----------Kocic-----------
-Ecks-Henry-Aceval-Morgan-
-----------Burgos----------
--------Silva---Avila--------
-----Johnson-Koef-Plata-----
subs:
Cann
Stinson
Lambe
Rowe
JDG
Cordon

[BayernTFC]

My own feeling is that the team was actually built around Frings, for good or for bad.
Without Frings, this team cannot win.

I think the best response to this is jloome's comment:

we knew before the season where our weaknesses are.

What does it say about the confidence the manager has in his defense when he decides to build around Frings at sweeper.

The offense is decent enough. The defensive problems were not properly addressed, and this falls squarely on Mariner's shoulders.

Where is TFC's offense this afternoon without the play of Soolsma and Koevermans? What would be said about TFC's offense if Koevermans fails to finish on his header? Almost everything was down the right side for TFC. Once again I got the feeling that Montreal wasn't pressured and played the game they wanted to. There weren't a lot of chances for either side really. Some good finishes from Ubiparipovic, Wenger and Koevermans.

[Blowing Bubbles]

I'm not confident in relying on "the East is weak" this year.

NE looks way better than anyone predicted - 7 pts already and basically lost on the last kick of the match vs Dallas.

NYRB are ripping apart Columbus 3-0 in the first half ..... Cooper and Henry have 6 goals each already this year.

Oduro is scoring for Chicago and they had a great final 15 games last year.

KC and Houston are pretty much guaranteed playoff spots as it is.

[ensco]

Here is the one thing I would like to ask Winter: if we're modelled on Ajax, why are we playing so many square balls? JDG is the worst, but they all do it.

It is a hallmark of Ajax football, taught there from age 7 onwards (I know this from a documentary I watched), that you avoid the square ball because, if it is intercepted, you are automatically shorthanded, as both the passer and the receiver are instantly behind the play.

JDG and Dunfield both doing it led directly to the first goal.

[KGH]

So here my .02:

Top 3

1) we can't continue to play RJ and Plata. They both want to play the same position and RJ ends up drifting there anyway. I think that's why the offensive started to look better when Silva came in and pushed RJ out wide.

2) despite his lack of goals Koev looks great. His positioning is awesome and he just hadn't had the final touch. I think this is more on not having a legit AM behind him. I still say he's going to have a solid 12-15 goal season.

3) Soolsma on the wing is looking better and better. I love that slow Dutchman. The plan should be to play him until the 60th-70th minute then bring in Lambe or plata to work on a tired defender.

4) is it just me or is Lambe a bust?

Mid 3

1) as I said above RJ just can't cut it at AM. We looked way better with Silva in there.

2) I've defended dunfield and JDG before but I'm done. They're an awful combo. I know they're DM's but damn their first instinct is always back pass. Its what cost the first goal. I'm ok with one of them playing but put them out there with someone who looks to attack more.

3) with Frings back I'd love to see us play point back with silva and JDG. Frings tends to bring out the best in JDG.

Defenders

1) emery looked good (despite the card). I'd like to see him with Henry as a CB combo. I think Henry has the size than harden has and is likely a step quicker.

2) ecks hurt us today. His work rate is great but then he does that one extra thing that costs a penalty or a card.

3) everyone who thinks Cann is the answer needs to give your head a shake. The guy is coming off an ACL repair and he was never known to be the best defender out there. Big yes but fast and quick decision making? Come on.

Overall:

Everyone who is calling for us to cut JDG doesn't know the rules. Only possibility would be to trade him or let him play out the year. I imagine there's a team that might take him at 335k but then we'd be on the hook for the rest of his salary (not against the cap but still cash out the door). If that happened I doubt we'd see a new DP come in this year.

[BFin]

That was by no means all ball...it was lazy defending that resulted in Emory taking the man down.

[TFCwestcan]

I think come May we have to play subs reserves in the Canadian Championships, and concentrate on the league - no more distractions. The CCL is was a wonderful but at what cost. I think the late flight and the emotion of the Santos game had an adverse effect on the team today. Unlike last weekend, we were out played, 62 % possession for MTL says it all.

Aceval 3 goals he was directly responsible for, Emory 2 goals he was responsible for, very disappointing pick-ups for a team that needs backline help.

On the limited positive, very glad to see Koev get his goal (nice assist from Lambe), you could see he was close, also a couple of goal line clearances suggest that with a more stingy backline the score line could have been better.

[BayernTFC]

These are the sorts of things that really make me wish football would get on board with video replay. It's not just disallowed goals; it's these major, incorrect decisions that are made in so, so many matches. I'd rather have a just game than one with fewer interruptions.

I'm not for instant replay. Emory took the chance with the challenge and with the referee at the vantage point he was in.

Looking at the replays, it looks like Emory didn't get any ball, all player. And as it's been pointed out in the other thread, the red card is because he was the last defender that prevented a breakaway scoring chance. Jason De Vos also says the referee made the correct call........

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter...videoID=181506

It's too bad the link provided doesn't have the footage of the second angle that was shown in the broadcast. I wouldn't make calls based on De Vos' comments. The referee had a tough decision and Emory was the last man.

[iy12l]

Exactly were supposed to keep the ball on the ground. I remember Johnson had Plata wide open on the left and Johnson just ignored Plata and kicked it to Koef who was surrounded by 2 defenders and it obviously got intercepted. Wtf is Aron teaching the team? The 4-3-3 is all about maintaining possesion, keeping the ball on the ground, quick 1-2 passes to create passing lanes. TFC has done none of this! In the D the defenders just passes it to Ecks who hoofs the ball to nowhere and it loops again every two minutes.

[Luanda]

Morgan was out of position in the 1st Mtl goal. Harden is stiff as a board and can not run. Both have been awfull for a number of games.
Ecks-Henry-Aceval-Morgan in the next game will not be the answer.

[BayernTFC]

It is a hallmark of Ajax football, taught there from age 7 onwards (I know this from a documentary I watched), that you avoid the square ball because, if it is intercepted, you are automatically shorthanded, as both the passer and the receiver are instantly behind the play.

JDG and Dunfield both doing it led directly to the first goal.

This! Dunfield's touch on JDG's pass is poor and allows Neagle to anticipate and steal the ball. I don't understand why JDG immediately decides to pass back (and behind) Dunfield with no pressure on him and with space in the midfield. Neagle then has tons of space to run into and find Ubiparipovic who has all the time in the World to pick the corner of the net.

[iy12l]

Just fire Winter and hire another dutch coach

[[NBF]]

Just dumb mistakes all around.

De Guz and Dunfield were useless, like a black hole in the midfield. So nothing got going forward, making Koevermans' job harder. We can't just bypass the midfield and shoot high balls for Koevermans to take down when he's got defenders on him.
Ty Harden put Emory in a really bad position, which led to Emory's red -- although if Emory lets the player run, I'd take my chances with Kocic making the save. But it's pretty much the same thing De Guz did against Santos, but outside the box.

We did have chances though... the save on Koevermans... the ball on the line that Montreal cleared...

With a final score of 2-1, it just goes to show how fine-edged results can be. If we didn't give up stupid goals and actually had a stud at CB, we'd be tied at the very least.

The physical disadvantage of Dunfield and DeGuzman and the slow pace of Harden has been costing the team.

Dunfield, is just an extra body when he plays, no matter what he does or whether he doesnt commit errors, he is like playing versus a brick wall. He is by far the least likely to improve the team when he's on the field.

DeGuzman, IMO he will play up to the talent thats around him. He is not a leader or motivated player. He is a chaser and workhorse without actually having the height and muscle mass to call him a workhorse.

Harden, he is physically what you would want in a centre back, but his pace and lack of change of direction makes him a liability. Other than that he is not that bad, but playing him with two midget holding midfielders is asking for trouble.

*What it really comes down to is playing two undersized midfielders in front of Harden and a rookie centre back in Emory. It was a bad selection versus the physical style of MLS teams. This would be reasonable versus the college teams in preseason, but not versus a rival with an intention on embarrassing the team by winning their first game in MLS versus their closest rival.

------------------------------Kocic----------------------------
Eckersley-----------Harden--------------Emory----------Morgan
---------------------------------------------------------------
--------------DeGuzman-----Johnson-----Dunfield--------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
Soolsma--------------------------------------------------Plata
---------------------------Koevermans-------------------------


*If you are going to start DeGuzman, you have to at least start either Silva or Avila, instead of Dunfield. IMO, there's an understanding that Dunfield is suppose to be that hardworking midfielder that will chase players down and do all the hard tackling, but in reality, the player that best suited to playing that way is DeGuzman. Dunsfield, shouldn't even be on the field before the 85th minute and the last possible substitution.


4-1-2-1-2 or 4-4-2 diamond:


------------------------------Kocic----------------------------
Eckersley-----------Harden--------------Aceval---------Morgan
----------------------------DeGuzman-------------------------
----------Avila----------------------------------Silva----------
-----------------------------Johnson--------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
----------------Koevermans---------------Plata----------------

[BayernTFC]

4) is it just me or is Lambe a bust?

It's a bit early for such judgements, no? He provided a good cross on the Koevermans goal, no? Seems to me that he played the role a late sub is supposed to.

1) as I said above RJ just can't cut it at AM. We looked way better with Silva in there.

RJ looked gassed towards the end. I don't think TFC generated much offensively in the middle or the left of the pitch today. I thought Silva provided a spark. Silva seemed to get into spaces and find the right outlets with his passes.

2) I've defended dunfield and JDG before but I'm done. They're an awful combo. I know they're DM's but damn their first instinct is always back pass. Its what cost the first goal. I'm ok with one of them playing but put them out there with someone who looks to attack more.

After watching this match, it's hard to disagree here. They are not working well in tandem and TFC operates differently when only one of them is on the pitch. Dunfield did provide a nice heading pass to Danny Koevermans inside the box after receiving a nice chip in by Plata in the first half.

Anyone else notice Plata covering well defensively on the opposite side of the pitch several times this afternoon. Good effort.

[PopePouri]

Morgan was out of position in the 1st Mtl goal. Harden is stiff as a board and can not run. Both have been awfull for a number of games.
Ecks-Henry-Aceval-Morgan in the next game will not be the answer.

Yes he was out of position because Dunfield lost the ball and Montreal countered quickly. He can't be blamed.

[DangerRed]

[Droop]

Hats off to our hard working banner painters. The team not so much.

[dow117]

I am really dissapointed in Winter for putting Harden in this position where he gets the gears from everyone. He clearly is out of his depth and as a manager , Winter should not leave this guy out to dry. He really does give 100% ( Harden ) but the pace and quality is not there. PS: Morgan is also not ready as with Santos, he is mostly out of position ... he has the pace but not the quality. I do not think Cann is the answer either but he may be the best of a bad bunch. No, we need a quality addition to command the back line; until then, we will continue to bleed goals on half chances...

[AlanO]

RJ looked gassed towards the end. I don't think TFC generated much offensively in the middle or the left of the pitch today. I thought Silva provided a spark. Silva seemed to get into spaces and find the right outlets with his passes.

After watching this match, it's hard to disagree here. They are not working well in tandem and TFC operates differently when only one of them is on the pitch. Dunfield did provide a nice heading pass to Danny Koevermans inside the box after receiving a nice chip in by Plata in the first half.

Anyone else notice Plata covering well defensively on the opposite side of the pitch several times this afternoon. Good effort.

Agreed.

Our midfield today, before Silva came on:

[ManUtd4ever]

Well, at 0-4, there's no margin for error the rest of the way. Barely one month into the season and the playoffs are already a pipe dream for fucks sakes.

[jazzy]

Cann has been on the bench for the past 5 or so games.
Anyone know why he isn't seeing any minutes?
There seem to have some little bit of stability there last year before he went down.

...AND AVILA??????......winter keeps playing players who aren't cutting it and they just don't seem to be under the gun.

[Brooker]

Well, at 0-4, there's no margin for error the rest of the way. Barely one month into the season and the playoffs are already a pipe dream for fucks sakes.

Atleast we scored a goal! Baby steps.