TFC 2013 general player moves/speculation/etc.

[djking2]

Don't know what makes you think Nelsen would get the best from him when Sigi can'

[Canary10]

Ade is on the bench today in Europa League. I'm sure he'll get a few minutes to demonstrate his fitness to Nelsen and Lieweke.

[Areathrasher]

All this Adebayor talk is a distraction.

Defoe is the real target.

At least thats what I hope

[Stress]

I agree, I think it's Defoe. Didn't they mention it was someone going to the World Cup? Defoe likely will or at least will be in consideration.

[Canary10]

I think it's Adebayor. He's only 29. Has more left. He's a better hold up guy fitting TFC's playing style under Nelsen. He's tough as shit to get the ball off of. He'd be a great player in MLS. And would fit perfectly at TFC.

[Pint]

Best part about Adebayor is that he may actually be able to start the season with us.... I'm concerned that if we wait till after the world cup to bring in player that the season may already be lost.

[Areathrasher]

Jonathan Tannenwald ‏@thegoalkeeper 3m (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/thegoalkeeper/status/393418492147269632) Catching up on @WFCDaily (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/WFCDaily) from yesterday. @LukeWileman (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/LukeWileman) told @PeteSchaad (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/PeteSchaad) that #TFC (http://forums.redpatchboys.ca/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) aims to land Jermain Defoe as well as Alberto Gilardino.

Adebayor doesnt fit the profile of someone going to the WC. Gilardino is a good bet and Defoe will be on the fringes of the England squad.

Adebayors work ethic is very questionalble. I'm not sure he would be Nelsens cup of tea because of it.

[Canary10]

Adebayor doesnt fit the profile of someone going to the WC. Gilardino is a good bet and Defoe will be on the fringes of the England squad.

Adebayors work ethic is very questionalble. I'm not sure he would be Nelsens cup of tea because of it.

I don't think the World Cup comment is set in stone. I wouldn't read a lot into that.

[burlington Red]

I doubt it's Adebayor very much. Very good player on his day, but consistency is an issue for him. He always scores in his early games for new clubs then fades away. Defoe is a differnet matter altogether, I'd take him in a heartbeat.
Spurs linked with 35 million quid bid for Bentke in Jan, so Defoe knows he isn't in longterm AVB plans, with Solgado already there also. Adebayor was already told he could have left in last transfer window, so either player are viable options

[ManUtd4ever]

Landing Defoe and Gilardino would be a hell of a coup for TFC management, but we would still be lacking a bonafide creative AM. I like Osorio but I'm not sure he's ready to assume that role on a full time basis yet.

[Areathrasher]

Agreed.

A poacher and a playmaker would be my preference.

[Ivy]

So these players are supposed to be announced before January? Before the renewal time? Id like to see them holding a TFC jersey, not just talk about "we're getting X and Y, so renew now please"

[Haddy]

We already have a poacher, and someone of the same body frame as Defoe.....Earnshaw. Unless he's as good as gone.

I would prefer more size up top, a real aerial threat would be great. Henry is to raw on corners and Caldwell isn't enough.

[mowe]

Well most recently Leiweke said the search is down to half a dozen players. I think Gilardino, Defoe, Adebayor, Klose are all part of that group. Plus two others we don't know about yet. Probably another Italian from that list we're supposed to have.

Should be interesting to see who we end up signing, if anyone.

[Haddy]

Does TFC still have the rights to Maurice Edu if he returns to MLS? He's in the same boat as Brek Shea right now, he needs first team minutes, and so far he's stuck playing for Stoke's U21's. Hasn't played once for the first team this season.

Just speculating on what TFC could get in a trade for his rights, if they still own those.

[CommradePolski]

Wait. Maurice Edu is U21?

Edit: Nvm, neither maurice "thank you for the grass" edu or brek "flock of seagulls" shea are U21.

[Yohan]

Does TFC still have the rights to Maurice Edu if he returns to MLS? He's in the same boat as Brek Shea right now, he needs first team minutes, and so far he's stuck playing for Stoke's U21's. Hasn't played once for the first team this season.

Just speculating on what TFC could get in a trade for his rights, if they still own those.
no. you don't get rights if you sell a player and receive transfer fee.

Edu back in MLS would go to allocation order

[Yohan]

Defoe just scored another cracker. Sign him up! HWTTLA

[Canary10]

JD scores for Spurs, now leading Europa League in goals. He's not leaving anytime soon.

Now bring in Ade so we can see what we're getting!

[burlington Red]

no. you don't get rights if you sell a player and receive transfer fee.

Edu back in MLS would go to allocation order


He's not what we need anyway, general consenus is we need an attacking mid to compliment Laba. I know Edu got a few goals in his time but he's not an attacking, creative mid that we really want

[TOBOR !]

I agree, I think it's Defoe. Didn't they mention it was someone going to the World Cup? Defoe likely will or at least will be in consideration.

Defoe may not be going.

Not sure where I heard it, so please take this as hearsay, but Hodgson may decide to drop him from the squad in favour of Morrison.

[Haddy]

Wait. Maurice Edu is U21?

Edit: Nvm, neither maurice "thank you for the grass" edu or brek "flock of seagulls" shea are U21.

27. But not in Stoke's plans right now.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/maurice-edu/leistungsdaten/spieler_50987.html


He's not what we need anyway, general consenus is we need an attacking mid to compliment Laba. I know Edu got a few goals in his time but he's not an attacking, creative mid that we really want

I was suggesting we trade his rights, because ya, we don't need him. Yohan answered my question, not gonna work.

[Areathrasher]

JD scores for Spurs, now leading Europa League in goals. He's not leaving anytime soon.

Now bring in Ade so we can see what we're getting!

Spurs are apparently heavily interested in Benteke and Chicharito. I wouldn't say he isn't going anywhere just yet.

[burlington Red]

Defoe may not be going.

Not sure where I heard it, so please take this as hearsay, but Hodgson may decide to drop him from the squad in favour of Morrison.

If Defoe isn't in squad, it will be another striker who'll take his place not a mid

[TOBOR !]

If Defoe isn't in squad, it will be another striker who'll take his place not a mid

okay - so Sturridge then.

[jloome]

okay - so Sturridge then.

At least he's creative on the ball sometimes. RN can sign all the good finishers he wants but if they rarely get a look because our off-the-ball movement and creative passing is near non-existent things won't go so well.

Having sai that, both convey and rey have the skill to create some of those chances. I still think we need a technically outstanding central playmaker to mentor Osorio.

[burlington Red]

okay - so Sturridge then.

Sturridge will be going anyway, both were in last squad for Poland game. Rooney, Sturidge, Defoe and Welbeck were strikers, although Welback can operate on flanks anyway.If another England strikers hits good form in next 6-7 months then yes he could very well push Defoe out of squad.
But I digress. Defoe hasn't started a lot of PL games this season, which is telling because as much as winning the Europa league would be nice for them, it is not their priority, top 4 in PL is. He needs to be starting PL games, and as mentioned Spurs have been linked with big name move in Jan for another striker

[Yohan]

At least he's creative on the ball sometimes. RN can sign all the good finishers he wants but if they rarely get a look because our off-the-ball movement and creative passing is near non-existent things won't go so well.

Having sai that, both convey and rey have the skill to create some of those chances. I still think we need a technically outstanding central playmaker to mentor Osorio.
A healthy Laba can cover a lot of the ground, so TFC can afford to play 4-4-2 diamond with a playmaker.

But I have a feeling Nelsen is not willing to break from 4-4-2 with 2 CM/DMs. TBF, one of reasons why TFC had better goals against stat this season is that it wasn't as easy for opposition to run over TFC defence through the middle (well, and Caldwell at CB), and I don't think Nelsen wants to jeopardize that.

[Haddy]

TL and RN says it's down to approx. 6 players. Here's a list of pending free agents and/or players linked to MLS that fit at least part of the mould TFC is after. All players listed either play in the EPL or Serie A. Year player's contract ends is in (parentheses).

Rumours don't usually come true. Forget about that for now. :D

Who would you like from this list?

Forwards

Dimitar Berbatov (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/dimitar-berbatov/transfers/spieler_65.html) (2014)
Samuel Eto'o (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/samuel-etoo/transfers/spieler_4257.html) (2014)
Kenwyne Jones (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/kenwyne-jones/transfers/spieler_28245.html) (2014)
Miroslav Klose (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/miroslav-klose/transfers/spieler_10.html) (2014)
Emmanuel Adebayor (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/emmanuel-adebayor/transfers/spieler_8883.html) (2015)
Jermain Defoe (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/jermain-defoe/profil/spieler_3875.html) (2015)
Marco Borriello (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/marco-borriello/profil/spieler_5825.html) (2015)
Alberto Gilardino (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/alberto-gilardino/profil/spieler_5878.html) (2016)

Attacking Midfielders

Tomás Rosicky (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/tomas-rosicky/profil/spieler_132.html) (2014)
Kaká (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/kaka/profil/spieler_3366.html) (2015)
Alberto Aquilani (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/alberto-aquilani/profil/spieler_5957.html) (2015)
Maximiliano Moralez (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/maximiliano-moralez/profil/spieler_30687.html) (2015)

Misc.

Xabi Alonso (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/xabi-alonso/transfers/spieler_7476.html) (CM) (2014)
Andrea Pirlo (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/andrea-pirlo/transfers/spieler_5817.html) (CM) (2014)

[Yohan]

List of playmakers who might be available in MLS (guaranteed salary listed)

Joel Lindpere, LW/AM, 32, 205k, CHI
-On decline, and no longer first choice for Chicago. Has green card. 2 goals, 7 assists in 24 games. He can pass, and he's got pretty good vision.

Martin Rivero, AM, 23, 75k, COL
-Recovering from a major injury and no longer first choice. Technically he's on loan from Rosario Central, but there was a huge drama for Rosario to allow him to join Colorado. I suspect he's available for a small transfer fee. 1 goal, 3 assists in 15 games in 2013, 2 goals, 8 assists in 30 games in 2012.

Benny Feilhaber, AM, 28, 313k, SKC
-Former US int who just haven't found his groove. 3 goals, 4 assists in 27 games, but expects better from someone of his pedigree and experience. I think it was 2009 Confederation Cup he took on Spain and Brazil and showed his class. May just need a change of scenary to get going again.

Daigo Kobayashi, AM, 30, 238, VAN
-2 goals, 4 assists in 29 games. Haven't quite worked out for Kobayashi who can pass the ball, and he hasn't quite adjusted to MLS. The skill is there, it's just getting him on same page as others. I suspect his lack of production partly has to do with somewhat disfunctional Caps midfield.

[moralis]

The information about Defoe and Gilardino being linked with TFC comes from TSN's Luke Wileman's interview with Pete Schaad on World Football Daily (Vancouver):

It starts at 26:30. Good Info.

http://www.teamradio.ca/podcast/whitecaps_daily/WFCDaily_October_23_2013~.mp3

[MartinUtd]

Daigo Kobayashi can pass the ball? You mean to the opposition or out of bounds, right?

[mcolvy]

Defoe would be aiming high, and really seems to be the type of striker that finishes chances created by others.. He plays to the talent around him, Like Javier Hernandez. Defoe is dope, but would be ripping his hair out (if he did have hair) waiting for some service. I think we need more dynamic striker. He is neither a playmaker nor a targetman.

Maybe he would fit in. I mean he would capitalize more then our current strikers, but I want some guys who will cause problems.

[mcolvy]

I don't want a Claudio Bieler, I want a bloody Kei Kamara.

[Canary10]

I don't want a Claudio Bieler, I want a bloody Kei Kamara.

Emanuel Adebayor is a rich man's Kei Kamara.

[Yohan]

Daigo Kobayashi can pass the ball? You mean to the opposition or out of bounds, right?
he does one of this in a while too


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw328mFLoiM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXRPtT-RpUA

I think Kobayashi is one of those players that needs a season or so to adjust to MLS. Also, playing on turf most of the time throws off your game a bit.

[MartinUtd]

Neither of those videos was very convincing. I mean, Ryan Johnson had a far more impressive strike at distance for us last year and that other video with the toe poke pass... I don't know, I think I could thread a pass between two defenders standing 15 feet apart. Sign me... I'm overweight, have little skill, but have heart.

[pdubs]

What I don't understand is why an attacking mid doesn't seem to be in RN/TL plans? Everyone is in agreement we are not scoring enough goals but I would venture this is do to a lack of midfield quality quality. Laba is great but is a DM. Rey is good but needs someone to play with. Osorio is seasoned enough to be the midfield general we need. Convey is good some games, not so good others. Even tho are strikers are spectacular a DP and Dike surely is a formidable pair with Earnshaw or someone of his mold coming off the bench? Tie in a DP AM and possibly a convey replacement suddenly things are surly looking better rather than leaving a void in the midfield? Osorio has looked good on the wing maybe try him there.?

Something like

Rey---DP---Laba---Osorio/MLS starter
-------DP---Dike--------

[ag futbol]

I don't think the coaching staff believes in playing an out-and-out AM. We're married to a pretty flat 4-4-2 where the central mids are usually both defensive or 1 defensive and one box-to-box.

The closest thing we are going to get to an AM is a support striker who drops deep and can create for the rest of the team. But I still think this remains an issue for the team regardless of whether they address it or not. This team relies on the flanks too much, which is outdated and predictable.

[Yohan]

I don't think the coaching staff believes in playing an out-and-out AM. We're married to a pretty flat 4-4-2 where the central mids are usually both defensive or 1 defensive and one box-to-box.

The closest thing we are going to get to an AM is a support striker who drops deep and can create for the rest of the team. But I still think this remains an issue for the team regardless of whether they address it or not. This team relies on the flanks too much, which is outdated and predictable.
This. I blame Bruce Arena for this lol. In fact, TFC roster building is slowly but surely looking like a carbon copy of LA's philosophy.

[notthesun]

Doesn't help when none of our fullbacks can cross properly.

Hell they're not even pushing up as much this year. I don't know if this is a coaching change or if I'm just not remembering well but I swear our fullbacks make way less runs forward this year. When's the last time we saw this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmB7d-nqn8c) (see 0:40 and 2:46) from Morgan?

[MartinUtd]

I don't think the coaching staff believes in playing an out-and-out AM. We're married to a pretty flat 4-4-2 where the central mids are usually both defensive or 1 defensive and one box-to-box.

The closest thing we are going to get to an AM is a support striker who drops deep and can create for the rest of the team. But I still think this remains an issue for the team regardless of whether they address it or not. This team relies on the flanks too much, which is outdated and predictable.

Wouldn't that be Defoe, then? The great hold up man that doesn't score goals? I know its not the attacking creative role, but if we're to be lobbing long balls from deep (which seems to be the strategy), he's the best man for the job.

[Yohan]

Wouldn't that be Defoe, then? The great hold up man that doesn't score goals? I know its not the attacking creative role, but if we're to be lobbing long balls from deep (which seems to be the strategy), he's the best man for the job.
you mean Adebayor, since Defoe is like 5'7. though never stopped TFC from lobbing long balls at short players like Plata before

[OgtheDim]

Doesn't help when none of our fullbacks can cross properly.

Hell they're not even pushing up as much this year. I don't know if this is a coaching change or if I'm just not remembering well but I swear our fullbacks make way less runs forward this year. When's the last time we saw this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmB7d-nqn8c) (see 0:40 and 2:46) from Morgan?

Bloom goes up. And I like his passing compared to Morgan and Ecks.

He just makes sure he is back, as against Ecks, and doesn't get beat for speed, which is Morgan's issue.

[ag futbol]

This. I blame Bruce Arena for this lol. In fact, TFC roster building is slowly but surely looking like a carbon copy of LA's philosophy.
haha, you know it's funny LA does play a *relatively* flat 4-4-2 but their soccer is still very good. The interplay between Donovan and Keane up front is unmatched in MLS.

Just something about the way their players move off the ball that works really well. I find we are quite stagnant by comparison, not just because of a gap in player quality either.

[Initial B]

Maybe we just need to give the players more than a season to gel before we blow up the roster again. The Donovan/Keane rapport took time. Heck they even model it in FIFA14.

Oh, and they need to not have an epidemic of injuries, which seems to happen every single year...

[Alonso]

This. I blame Bruce Arena for this lol. In fact, TFC roster building is slowly but surely looking like a carbon copy of LA's philosophy.


I'd take that in a heart beat over the last 7 years.

[backbeat]

we keep talking about adding 2 DPs as though that's all we have.

with Ecks $ gone we can add another RB and a CB

as well we have a lot of cap space for additional attacking players to augment our 2 DP acquisitions be they 2 strikers or a striker and an AM/winger and then add on top of that with the additional cap space plus allocation

i think we're in a pretty good position with cap space, allocation and 2 DPs, if handled properly, to really strengthen our team for 2014.

[mowe]

i think we're in a pretty good position with cap space, allocation and 2 DPs, if handled properly, to really strengthen our team for 2014.

Agreed. In addition to two DP strikers the FO seems set on signing, we still have money to get a box-to-box mid, a CB, and a fullback. Bez and Nelson should look within the league for some of these players. We're in a position to capitalize on other teams shedding salary, like Portland did this year. Hopefully we can pick up some like Will Johnson.

[prizby]

Agreed. In addition to two DP strikers the FO seems set on signing, we still have money to get a box-to-box mid, a CB, and a fullback. Bez and Nelson should look within the league for some of these players. We're in a position to capitalize on other teams shedding salary, like Portland did this year. Hopefully we can pick up some like Will Johnson.

think we need a speedy, crafty winger; hope zakuani is available on something more reasonable

[Yohan]

think we need a speedy, crafty winger; hope zakuani is available on something more reasonable
I think Zakuani will be available, but he's not the player he used to be. Injuries have taken severe toll on him, and I don't think he'll ever be the same speedster on LW

[prizby]

I think Zakuani will be available, but he's not the player he used to be. Injuries have taken severe toll on him, and I don't think he'll ever be the same speedster on LW

feel he needs a 2nd chance...like conor casey this year.

wouldn't mind tfc signing Hanson Boakai, but doubt Nelsen could properly use him and would relegate him to the reserves

[Yohan]

feel he needs a 2nd chance...like conor casey this year.

wouldn't mind tfc signing Hanson Boakai, but doubt Nelsen could properly use him and would relegate him to the reserves
I think Eddies would fight tooth and nail to keep Boakai.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=434956

Koevermans would like to stay one more year on a non DP salary, but on a guaranteed contract which TFC don't want to give.

[Ivy]

I think Eddies would fight tooth and nail to keep Boakai.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=434956

Koevermans would like to stay one more year on a non DP salary, but on a guaranteed contract which TFC don't want to give.
INTERESTING....
Wonder why the change of heart.

[Pint]

INTERESTING....
Wonder why the change of heart.

not sure the TSN article is the entire Davidson article... but he says he feels he owes it to the team and the fans. Seams like a very genuine guy who wants to make it right in toronto

[Pint]

INTERESTING....
Wonder why the change of heart.

not sure the TSN article is the entire Davidson article... but he says he feels he owes it to the team and the fans. Seams like a very genuine guy who wants to make it right in toronto.

As for Boakai i would love to see us get him with the promise of loaning him back to EDM for the next year or 2 (just to make the deal happen).

[flamehawk]

I think Eddies would fight tooth and nail to keep Boakai.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/mls/story/?id=434956

Koevermans would like to stay one more year on a non DP salary, but on a guaranteed contract which TFC don't want to give.

Really interesting article. I had a lot of respect for Koevs before, and now I have more. He really seems to love the city and I respect that he recognized all the professionals out there earning a frankling disgraceful income despite the same work and training.

I do hope MLSE can work out something. I wonder what the semi-guaranteed contract was? Pay-as-you play? I didn't think those were allowed under MLS rules, given the cap. Could MLSE perhaps promise a job after retirement, is that allow?

[Canary10]

you mean Adebayor, since Defoe is like 5'7. though never stopped TFC from lobbing long balls at short players like Plata before

Adebayor is definitely the better hold up man, but Defoe often drops deep to pick up balls. He's definitely the more creative player and can make things happen from a deeper position. With him you wouldn't be relying on lobbing long balls.

[Yohan]

Really interesting article. I had a lot of respect for Koevs before, and now I have more. He really seems to love the city and I respect that he recognized all the professionals out there earning a frankling disgraceful income despite the same work and training.

I do hope MLSE can work out something. I wonder what the semi-guaranteed contract was? Pay-as-you play? I didn't think those were allowed under MLS rules, given the cap. Could MLSE perhaps promise a job after retirement, is that allow?
semi guaranteed contract means a team can just cut the player any time before summer contract guarantee date (usually july IIRC). esp for guys eating up a decent amount of cap space and int spot. Koev wouldn't like this because unstability for his family (though he should have enough cash in the bank to survive for a while)

I don't know pay as you play contracts are allowed in MLS, but most contracts will have bonuses pending on apperances made

[Still Kicking]

Hooray for Danny K.! Loves the city and the fans, hates the salary cap, my kind of guy. Fingers crossed that he regains his health and finds a short term- comeback club in Europe. Fingers double crossed that he and his family want to return to Toronto in 2014. Triple hoping that TFC keeps the door open down the road for a goal scorer with a love of team and something to prove. Remember that every contract in MLS is guaranteed after July 1st for the remainder of the season. So a healthy Danny K as a non DP just might have a TFC encore next May/June.....

[prizby]

I do hope MLSE can work out something. I wonder what the semi-guaranteed contract was? Pay-as-you play? I didn't think those were allowed under MLS rules, given the cap. Could MLSE perhaps promise a job after retirement, is that allow?

isn't brian ching a player-coach; although tfc seem to have a lot of coaches...would make sense to me though

[prizby]

semi guaranteed contract means a team can just cut the player any time before summer contract guarantee date (usually july IIRC). esp for guys eating up a decent amount of cap space and int spot. Koev wouldn't like this because unstability for his family (though he should have enough cash in the bank to survive for a while)


school year ends in June, i'm sure that is agreeable; Koef could become a permanent resident June 29th, 2014 I believe meaning he'd be 'domestic'

it'd make sense to just sign him to a Bernardo Corraddi like contract (that Montreal did last year); if our DP strikers aren't coming until the summer anyways

[Areathrasher]

school year ends in June, i'm sure that is agreeable; Koef could become a permanent resident June 29th, 2014 I believe meaning he'd be 'domestic'

it'd make sense to just sign him to a Bernardo Corraddi like contract (that Montreal did last year); if our DP strikers aren't coming until the summer anyways

That's when he is eligible to apply, the process itself can take up to a year.

[ManUtd4ever]

If we land two DP strikers, I'm not sure where Koevs would fit in on the depth chart considering that we'll have Dike on the roster as well. I love Koevs, but at his age and given his history of injuries, it would have to be in the range of 100-150K to make any sense at all.

[Yohan]

If we land two DP strikers, I'm not sure where Koevs would fit in on the depth chart considering that we'll have Dike on the roster as well. I love Koevs, but at his age and given his history of injuries, it would have to be in the range of 100-150K to make any sense at all.
Danny K will be a big question mark if he comes back. Once you get the injury prone label... well, Koevs won't be playing on any turf games. And does he still have his finishing? Dude is 25 after all. Plus pending on when 2 DP strikers do come, Koevs may be riding the bench, and he needs to start to be effective. Add in salary cap implications, int spot and roster spot...

[pdubs]

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) O'Leary pulled Eckersley aside after training. Then tells media "he probably won't be part of the squad tomorrow."

Looks like ecks is done for sure. not even making the bench at this point? Looks like its Bloom/Richter

[Canary10]

Kurtis Larson ‏@KurtLarSUN (https://twitter.com/KurtLarSUN) O'Leary pulled Eckersley aside after training. Then tells media "he probably won't be part of the squad tomorrow."

Looks like ecks is done for sure. not even making the bench at this point? Looks like its Bloom/Richter

I'm not a fan of Ecks as most people know, but this is strange and shitty to me. Seems like they are out to embarrass the guy for some reason. They tell him during training to pack it in? That's garbage.

[Yohan]

I'm not a fan of Ecks as most people know, but this is strange and shitty to me. Seems like they are out to embarrass the guy for some reason. They tell him during training to pack it in? That's garbage.
I would really love to hear Eckersley's side of the story. Because this is a terrible way of treating a player

[Richard]

Without knowing the salary Koevs expects next year I would rather have him than Braun. If I'm Koevs I take the non guaranteed contract, you think by now the money wold be a non issue considering he has played a long time.

Regarding Ecks, its all the same petty political bullshit.

[pdubs]

So in terms of the amount of cap space from people leaving...

Guaranteed money btw not base...

Eckersely $310,000
Frei $200,000
Koevermans $1,623,000 but DP hit just $368,750


hopefully Braun will be done too... $114,700 cap hit.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/September%2015,%202013%20Salary%20Information%20-%20By%20Club.pdf

[Super]

Without knowing the salary Koevs expects next year I would rather have him than Braun. If I'm Koevs I take the non guaranteed contract, you think by now the money wold be a non issue considering he has played a long time.

Regarding Ecks, its all the same petty political bullshit.

I seriously doubt we're offering Koev a new contract, and I find it even less likely that he would be interested. He came here for the cash, so unless we're willing to offer up at least a million, I think he'll prefer to head home to Holland and cash in on a last contract. I'd love to see him stay at non-DP status, but I just don't see it happening. As far as Ecks, well, that's the result of the salary cap. I'm no fan of the cap as it produces exactly this kind of situation. Instead we're getting ready to spend $26 million on two guys. But no, gotta ship out one of our best players over $300k or so. Cue Mickey Mouse ears.

[ManUtd4ever]

So in terms of the amount of cap space from people leaving...

Guaranteed money btw not base...

Eckersely $310,000
Frei $200,000
Koevermans $1,623,000 but DP hit just $368,750


hopefully Braun will be done too... $114,700 cap hit.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/files/September%2015,%202013%20Salary%20Information%20-%20By%20Club.pdf

That's some serious dough coming off the books. I hope RN and Leiweke use it wisely.

[Phil]

I'm not a fan of Ecks as most people know, but this is strange and shitty to me. Seems like they are out to embarrass the guy for some reason. They tell him during training to pack it in? That's garbage.

It says after training so I would imagine they just informed him of the decision so it wasn't the media doing it in a scrum.

If that is the case, it was the right thing to do.

[moralis]

Looks like the agent for Alberto Gilardino and Fabio Quagliarella will be in tomorrow for the TFC-Impact game:

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.gianlucadimarzio.com/calciomercato/gila-e-quagliarella-si-muove-la-mls-lagente-in-america/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAlberto%2BGilardino%2Btoronto%26clien t%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DVam%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Drcs%26biw%3D1173%26bih%3D7 86%26tbs%3Dqdr:d

https://twitter.com/dimarzio/with_replies

[ag futbol]

I would really love to hear Eckersley's side of the story. Because this is a terrible way of treating a player
You'd think after years of this shit somebody would get a clue.

Not a huge fan, but can we at least treat the guy with some respect? It's still amateur hour out there.

[Canary10]

It says after training so I would imagine they just informed him of the decision so it wasn't the media doing it in a scrum.

If that is the case, it was the right thing to do.

It's more the not putting him in the team. But also telling him in front of the media is pretty shitty (they reported it, so they obviously saw it).

[Ivy]

Fucking Impact. Player poachers. I hate those ass holes.

[moralis]

Nelsen was not at TFC training. He was at an MLSE board meeting. Maybe all three - Nelsen, Tim Bez and Leiweke are meeting with board to discuss the deal they want to give Gilardino.

Gilardino's agent in Toronto for tomorrow's game. Not a coincidence.

[Yohan]

Nelsen was not at TFC training. He was at an MLSE board meeting. Maybe all three - Nelsen, Tim Bez and Leiweke are meeting with board to discuss the deal they want to give Gilardino.

Gilardino's agent in Toronto for tomorrow's game. Not a coincidence.
Or, could be Nesta thing all over again lol

[Ivy]

Or, could be Nesta thing all over again lol
Exactly. A voice in my head is telling me TFC will have to fork out a lot of cash if they want to pry either one of those players from MTL.

[Initial B]

Or, could be Nesta thing all over again lol
This is what I'm afraid of:
1. Gilardino's agent comes and gets the wine and dine from MLSE.
2. Agent sees the game and TFC gets destroyed by the Impact.
3. Impact and some of the Italian players meet with agent after the game and say, "Do you really want to go there? Come to Montreal instead!"
4. Gilardino signs with Montreal, Lieweke blindsided.
5. TFC left scrambling to find another DP, but word has gotten around.
6. Can't find a new DP before January deadline.
7. SSH sales tank.
8. Repeat 2012 season.
9. MLS finally gives up on Toronto, moves franchise to Miami.

[Haddy]

It's more the not putting him in the team. But also telling him in front of the media is pretty shitty (they reported it, so they obviously saw it).

They saw something. Coaches talk to players all the time.
Too many assumptions and not enough facts. It's fair to judge once we have real info, not a speculative tweet.

[Canary10]

They saw something. Coaches talk to players all the time.
Too many assumptions and not enough facts. It's fair to judge once we have real info, not a speculative tweet.

They said he's not in the team tomorrow. That's a fact. Is that a good way to treat one of your longest serving players? We know he's gone at the end of the season, but why embarrass the guy by not even putting him in the 18?

[OgtheDim]

Oh please. Do people seriously think TL is going to let that agent anywhere near Montreal people tomorrow? He's going to be majorly wined and dined all day tomorrow.

Come on, this is not Mariner and Cochrane.

[TFC1154ever]

Fabio Quagliarella, even thou there is no chance of him coming, would be the perfect striker for TFC. He is completely different to Gilardino, where he creates his own chances and can score some spectacular goals by himself. Gilardino i would say is better at getting in good positions and being a good poacher but NEEDS service.

[ag futbol]

If they would rather play somewhere else, that's fine with me. My biggest concern is we use these DP signings, they end up only working okay / or flop. We fire Nelsen (seems inevitable) but can't attract a good candidate because we've used up all our flexibility.

Not saying that the players we are targeting here are not going to work out (I'm fine with these names). I am just concerned about the group of people we are trusting to spend big money on players have zero experience with talent evaluation.

[Ivy]

This is what I'm afraid of:
1. Gilardino's agent comes and gets the wine and dine from MLSE.
2. Agent sees the game and TFC gets destroyed by the Impact.
3. Impact and some of the Italian players meet with agent after the game and say, "Do you really want to go there? Come to Montreal instead!"
4. Gilardino signs with Montreal, Lieweke blindsided.
5. TFC left scrambling to find another DP, but word has gotten around.
6. Can't find a new DP before January deadline.
7. SSH sales tank.
8. Repeat 2012 season.
9. MLS finally gives up on Toronto, moves franchise to Miami.
There are a number of things that are to Toronto's advantage, and have deeper pockets is one. Another is the Italian community - any good Italian player will be an idol. TFC just got all new management running behind the guy that brought you LAG, Lakers, and the Kings. Plus we have nicer facilities and a better fan base.
Make sure everybody brings it tomorrow.

[Yohan]

There are a number of things that are to Toronto's advantage, and have deeper pockets is one. Another is the Italian community - any good Italian player will be an idol. TFC just got all new management running behind the guy that brought you LAG, Lakers, and the Kings. Plus we have nicer facilities and a better fan base.
Make sure everybody brings it tomorrow.
yeah, but with di Vaio, Ferrari and Nesta whispering sweet nothings in Gilardino's ears and all bets are off. People tend to trust the opinions of people they know more.

[Canary10]

Apparently that agent is also visiting New York today. They seem to have a few options, but seeing an actual match is probably a good sign. Ivy is right, need to bring it tomorrow. (and fuck up Montreal's playoffs).

[TOBOR !]

It's more the not putting him in the team. But also telling him in front of the media is pretty shitty (they reported it, so they obviously saw it).

Doesn't this move also make things easier for Montreal ?

Hmmm...

[ag futbol]

Italian community is large in Montreal as well, I don't think that will be a selling point that we'd beat them on.

[Detroit_TFC]

Is there anything to this Quagliarella rumor other than he has same agent as Gilardino?

[Ivy]

yeah, but with di Vaio, Ferrari and Nesta whispering sweet nothings in Gilardino's ears and all bets are off. People tend to trust the opinions of people they know more.
That's the only downfall, but it's a big one.
Heres to hope that TL can show this agent some fine Toronto Italian ladies, get him juiced up enough, and leave a good impression. In situations like these, I have full faith in the man that landed Beckham and Keane.

[TFC07]

Leiweke unlike Mariner and Cochrane knows how to do business when comes to signing players. I highly doubt Montreal has much to offer (especially money wise) to steal a potential player from us.

[moralis]

Nesta isn't traveling with Montreal to Toronto. He got injured in their last game. I believe TSN's Luke Wielman when he said on World Football Daily podcast that TFC are seriously interested in Gilardino.

[Phil]

The problem is there is too much information and speculation going on. Seems to me the agent is shopping, a look at the MLS table firmly shows them who the 'players' are.

[Ivy]

Saputo is not a poor guy, but I don't think he's gonna pay the 6-7 million it will take to land either one of these players - especially after giving Di Vaio a raise.

[Ivy]

The problem is there is too much information and speculation going on. Seems to me the agent is shopping, a look at the MLS table firmly shows them who the 'players' are.
Not sure I agree... Portland, KC, RSL, and others don't have the money to pay for these players without league help. I THINK

[Haddy]

Fabio Quagliarella, even thou there is no chance of him coming, would be the perfect striker for TFC. He is completely different to Gilardino, where he creates his own chances and can score some spectacular goals by himself. Gilardino i would say is better at getting in good positions and being a good poacher but NEEDS service.

He's also averaging only 30 minutes per game in Serie A. Basically same role as Defoe right now, off the bench and not in long term plans. He isnt playing for Italy but does have contract for one year less than Gilardino, til 2015.


My biggest concern is we use these DP signings, they end up only working okay / or flop. We fire Nelsen (seems inevitable) but can't attract a good candidate because we've used up all our flexibility.


Not saying that the players we are targeting here are not going to work out (I'm fine with these names). I am just concerned about the group of people we are trusting to spend big money on players have zero experience with talent evaluation.

To be fair, that can happen to anyone with any acquisition. Players don't always work out. RN said that on the soccer show near the beginning of the season, one thing I agree with him on for sure.

[prizby]

Fucking Impact. Player poachers. I hate those ass holes.

1 issue; Impact can't poach a player if he's on TFC's discovery list

[Phil]

Not sure I agree... Portland, KC, RSL, and others don't have the money to pay for these players without league help. I THINK

If the agent was in NY today and showing up to TO tomorrow, who is to say he is not shopping to NY and MtL?

I am just pointing out without the tinfoil hats of who is paying for the hotel and entertainment that these guys know who they are targeting well before they get on the plane.

[Ivy]

1 issue; Impact can't poach a player if he's on TFC's discovery list
I don't know much about the discovery thing to comment on it. Wanna give me a quick lesson?

[WestStandGeoff]

I have it on very good authority that TL was in NYC on Wednesday... possible that all parties were in discussions with the league?

[Ivy]

If the agent was in NY today and showing up to TO tomorrow, who is to say he is not shopping to NY and MtL?

I am just pointing out without the tinfoil hats of who is paying for the hotel and entertainment that these guys know who they are targeting well before they get on the plane.
That is 100% true, I misunderstood what you were saying, and thought you meant that top teams in the league are ones to move in on these players.

[Phil]

I have it on very good authority that TL was in NYC on Wednesday... possible that all parties were in discussions with the league?

My info is that the players being thrown around with this agent are not guys that are on our short list. But its very true that you never know.

I am curious who else this guy reps.

[ag futbol]

I wonder how much impact the discovery list really has these days (at least when it comes to big name players). Realistically the player and his agent are in the position to call the shots, and if they want to talk to every team that's interested, they probably will.

[Haddy]

My info is that the players being thrown around with this agent are not guys that are on our short list. But its very true that you never know.

I am curious who else this guy reps.

Here's the list...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/agb-sport-management/details/berater_567.html

[Canary10]

I wonder how much impact the discovery list really has these days (at least when it comes to big name players). Realistically the player and his agent are in the position to call the shots, and if they want to talk to every team that's interested, they probably will.

I heard Willian is on Tottenham's discovery list. Ha ha.

[gdg_9]

Here's the list...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/agb-sport-management/details/berater_567.html

The only other player on that list I could maybe see is Cassano.

So Quagliarella, Gilardino, or Cassano

[Yohan]

1 issue; Impact can't poach a player if he's on TFC's discovery list
pretty much all bets are off when DP, esp one with a famous name is involved.

See Dempsey, Clint

[Phil]

Here's the list...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/agb-sport-management/details/berater_567.html

Thanks Haddy.

Nothing stands out for me on the list compared to what I have heard. Everything about this agent suggests that its him shopping the players, doesn't mean we won't listen if he comes to the door.

[Canary10]

The only other player on that list I could maybe see is Cassano.

So Quagliarella, Gilardino, or Cassano

Cassano and Adebayor would be perfect. Couple of head case players on a head case team. What could go wrong?

[Haddy]

Cassano and Adebayor would be perfect. Couple of head case players on a head case team. What could go wrong?

Ryan Nelsen after a month with that pair...

http://blog.saveapathea.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/crazyeyes.jpg

[Ivy]

Ryan Nelsen after a month with that pair...

http://blog.saveapathea.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/crazyeyes.jpg
Thank you for that, I just choked on my pop. Lmfao.

[ag futbol]

I heard Willian is on Tottenham's discovery list. Ha ha.
I hear they let him sign for Chelsea because it was "in the best interests of the league" :facepalm:

[Canary10]

I hear they let him sign for Chelsea because it was "in the best interests of the league" :facepalm:

Lol. (Apparently in that case the "best interests of the league" were to keep him from playing first team football).

[Yohan]

Saputo is not a poor guy, but I don't think he's gonna pay the 6-7 million it will take to land either one of these players - especially after giving Di Vaio a raise.
lesson learned for IMFC this season is that they have very little depth in strikers. Di Vaio is only consistent player they had. so IMFC will be investing in on a proven striker come off season. and what better than to get Gilardino?

[69Chevy396]

Cassano and Adebayor would be perfect. Couple of head case players on a head case team. What could go wrong?
Doesnt Cassano covet a WC call up on the Italian NT? Playing for TFC would kill this opportunity, no way he comes here.

[notthesun]

Doesnt Cassano covet a WC call up on the Italian NT? Playing for TFC would kill this opportunity, no way he comes here.

He's out of the picture barring a miraculous run of form. Balotelli, Osvaldo, Rossi, El Shaarawy, Insigne, Gilardino, Giovinco all ahead of him, and at the rate Totti is playing if they go for an old playmaking CF, it'll be him.

[prizby]

I don't know much about the discovery thing to comment on it. Wanna give me a quick lesson?


pretty much all bets are off when DP, esp one with a famous name is involved.

See Dempsey, Clint

see Kris Boyd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Boyd


As Houston held exclusive rights within MLS to negotiate with Boyd, Portland were forced to trade a first-round pick in the 2013 MLS SuperDraft to the Dynamo for the right to sign him.

[Yohan]

see Kris Boyd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Boyd
I'm aware of Boyd's case.

Yet in Dempsey's case, it sounded like TFC was in the running along with Seattle. I don't think MLS would allow TFC to negotiate with Seattle if Seattle held Dempsey's rights via discovery claim.

[Ivy]

I'm aware of Boyd's case.

Yet in Dempsey's case, it sounded like TFC was in the running along with Seattle. I don't think MLS would allow TFC to negotiate with Seattle if Seattle held Dempsey's rights via discovery claim.
Portland was first in the allocation process - and they got nothing from the Dempsey deal, as far as I know. TFC traded their first place spot to Chivas so they could sign Bocanegra

[prizby]

I'm aware of Boyd's case.

Yet in Dempsey's case, it sounded like TFC was in the running along with Seattle. I don't think MLS would allow TFC to negotiate with Seattle if Seattle held Dempsey's rights via discovery claim.

i think there is a big difference when it is a returning US international (especially when it was thought that said players would go through the allocation process) and any non US international (ie. Boyd)

shouldn't we be thankful we didn't get dempsey; guy has done nothing of note so far

[Ivy]

As much as I'm glad that we didn't chase Dempsey, I'm giving him the benefit of doubt, and believe he'll show up next year. Much like Henry and Beckham.

[Yohan]

i think there is a big difference when it is a returning US international (especially when it was thought that said players would go through the allocation process) and any non US international (ie. Boyd)

shouldn't we be thankful we didn't get dempsey; guy has done nothing of note so far
Dempsey is apparently carrying a knock. And not uncommon for a player to take about half season to get used to MLS.

I don't even know if TFC used up all discovery rights claims, or have any available. This is one of those convoluted MLS areas that annoys the hell out of people. Who knows which team has discovery rights on Klose, who apparently is talking to 2 MLS clubs?)

[prizby]

Dempsey is apparently carrying a knock. And not uncommon for a player to take about half season to get used to MLS.

I don't even know if TFC used up all discovery rights claims, or have any available. This is one of those convoluted MLS areas that annoys the hell out of people. Who knows which team has discovery rights on Klose, who apparently is talking to 2 MLS clubs?)

feel that it is a lot of agents talking; i mean once i saw LA, i thought that was a joke cuz he'd have to go on a non DP contract

[Yohan]

feel that it is a lot of agents talking; i mean once i saw LA, i thought that was a joke cuz he'd have to go on a non DP contract
Omar Gonzalez new deal as DP was not announced 2 weeks until Dempsey was signed by Seattle, so it wasn't out of possibly that Dempsey could have gone to LA

[Marc"2L"]

feel that it is a lot of agents talking; i mean once i saw LA, i thought that was a joke cuz he'd have to go on a non DP contract

Good heavens no, here, have a DP slot LA

- Best Regards,
the Don.

[moralis]

It seems the Limpact are also interested in Gilardino and have made an offer to Genoa and their president, but that Gilardino wants to finish season in Genoa: The alternative if they don't sign Gilardino is striker Rolando Bianchi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolando_Bianchi

It's in Italian:

Nicolò Schira ‏@NicoSchira (https://twitter.com/NicoSchira) 1h (https://twitter.com/NicoSchira/status/393846480303562752) #Montreal (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Montreal&src=hash) ha fatto un'offerta al #Genoa (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Genoa&src=hash) per #Gilardino (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Gilardino&src=hash): #Preziosi (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Preziosi&src=hash) tentato ma Gila vorrebbe finire campionato in #Italia (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Italia&src=hash). Alternativa Bianchi

https://twitter.com/NicoSchira

[Haddy]

Dempsey is apparently carrying a knock. And not uncommon for a player to take about half season to get used to MLS.

I don't even know if TFC used up all discovery rights claims, or have any available. This is one of those convoluted MLS areas that annoys the hell out of people. Who knows which team has discovery rights on Klose, who apparently is talking to 2 MLS clubs?)

Correct me if I'm wrong, slate is wiped clean each new year. So every January, clubs have to refresh their discovery claims.

[notthesun]

If Montreal signing Gilardino means we sign Quagliarella instead I'm all for it.

[Richard]

*Puts tinfoil hat on*

What if the whole Gilardino/agent whining and dinning is a ploy so the Impact take a bite, then we swoop in and take the real Italian target in the cover of the night.

[Ivy]

*Puts tinfoil hat on*

What if the whole Gilardino/agent whining and dinning is a ploy so the Impact take a bite, then we swoop in and take the real Italian target in the cover of the night.
i like it. But we shoulda gone for a less successful striker lol. Some loser from the third league :P MTL would fall right into that trap. MUHAHAHAHAHA

[Haddy]

There are also a ton of other clubs, in more prestigious leagues, that know Juve needs some cash and has a strong stable to pick from.

What are the chances a club like Juventus sells two capped Italy players to MLS in the same year?? Especially when you consider those players also have a say in where they go. Pretty slim I think.

[notthesun]

There are also a ton of other clubs, in more prestigious leagues, that know Juve needs some cash and has a strong stable to pick from.

What are the chances a club like Juventus sells two capped Italy players to MLS in the same year?? Especially when you consider those players also have a say in where they go. Pretty slim I think.

Are you referring to Gilardino? He plays for Genoa, not Juventus.

[prizby]

Omar Gonzalez new deal as DP was not announced 2 weeks until Dempsey was signed by Seattle, so it wasn't out of possibly that Dempsey could have gone to LA

think the omar was being negotiated; that is besides the point though; klose can't get into LA unless there are 4 DPs now


Good heavens no, here, have a DP slot LA

- Best Regards,
the Don.

LOL...damn right!

[Haddy]

Are you referring to Gilardino? He plays for Genoa, not Juventus.

Derp!

[Haddy]

With the extra cap space next year, who do you folks see coming from within MLS? And how?

I'd love to see someone like Le Toux at 200k who averaged over 8 G and 8 A over the past 4 seasons.....one of the highest assist per 90 this season.....but what do we have as trade bait for someone of that level?

[Pint]

With the extra cap space next year, who do you folks see coming from within MLS? And how?

I'd love to see someone like Le Toux at 200k who averaged over 8 G and 8 A over the past 4 seasons.....one of the highest assist per 90 this season.....but what do we have as trade bait for someone of that level?

I believe our trade bait is Allocation and maybe a couple side players.... the main piece has to be allocation

[SKB]

Season ended so what will need next year:

Strikers: Defoe, Gilardino ; depth Earnshaw, Dike
Midfielders: AM?, Orosio, Rey, Laba ; depth Convey, Lambe, Hall, Bekker
Defenders: LB?, Henry, Caldwell, Bloom ; depth Morgan, Gale A, CB?, Richter

So needed 2 DP strikers, AM DP, Upgrade LB and some better depth players for defense.

[notthesun]

Starting CB is a must I think. Henry's getting there but he's not ready yet. Too inconsistent.

Wouldn't mind a winger as well. We can do better than Convey imo, either by moving Osorio to the left or signing someone new. I'd rather sign a creative CM and keep Osorio in the middle and have him learn from the new guy though.

Anyways, good signings this off-season should give us a pretty solid team. Dike, Rey, Laba, Osorio, Caldwell and Bendik are all great building blocks.

[pdogg]

Starting CB is a must I think. Henry's getting there but he's not ready yet. Too inconsistent.


The only way Henry is going to get there is to play. If he gets bumped to the reserve team or the bench, his development will stall. The bigger issue, IMO, is figuring out who will slot into Caldwell's spot once he's done. It's a 2015/2016 issue, but it needs to start in 2014.

[ManUtd4ever]

I don't think TFC should be focusing on two DP strikers in the off season. Dike looks like starting material. I would prefer a DP Striker and a DP AM. It would provide far more balance to our lineup next season.

[flamehawk]

Kurt Larsun posted "Tomorrow's @TheTorontoSun (https://twitter.com/TheTorontoSun) - #TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash) GM Tim Bez sits down for exclusive interview... Plus, TFC going after English pair... Plus, #IMFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23IMFC&src=hash) match."

So looks like the DPs might both be playing in England - Defoe and Adebayor?

[Haddy]

I'd rather sign a creative CM and keep Osorio in the middle and have him learn from the new guy though.

I'm not against the idea, but what do you suggest RN do with Laba?

[Ivy]

I'm not against the idea, but what do you suggest RN do with Laba?
Trade him for allocation monaayyyyyy

/facepalm. Lol

[Yohan]

Trade him for allocation monaayyyyyy

/facepalm. Lol
don't even joke like this! you know this comes true way too often

[notthesun]

I'm not against the idea, but what do you suggest RN do with Laba?

Start Laba and the new CM. And either start Osorio LM, or use Osorio as a regular sub and first choice replacement when anyone is injured/suspended/out of fitness. He'd still get a lot of games. As some have pointed out, Osorio's been good this year but he can't quite run an offense yet. He has a real goalscoring knack but he's not the playmaker we need yet (his first assist of the season was today).

Same sort of idea with signing a CB. Sign a veteran who knows what he's doing to really lock down our back line with Caldwell. Henry can pick up starts when he's needed to fill in an empty spot, play cup games, etc. By 2015 I think he'll be ready to start full time. Remember he's only 20, we can take our time with him.

[ag futbol]

I don't think TFC should be focusing on two DP strikers in the off season. Dike looks like starting material. I would prefer a DP Striker and a DP AM. It would provide far more balance to our lineup next season.
No thanks. He's substitute quality on any of the better teams in this league, let's leave it at that.

[flamehawk]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/27/reds-gm-exudes-quiet-confidence

Looks like our targets are Defoe and Lampard now

[OgtheDim]

Funny how all the talk the day before was the Italian agent who was here yesterday and then, whoops, in a Sun article, its all about the EPL.

I think they are keeping their options open and have about 6 strong targets they have likely approached.

[Haddy]

So Larson is suggesting Lamps will play from Aug 2013 straight through until Oct/Nov 2014 with maybe a two week vacay after the WC? At 36 by then?

Sounds to me like a DP who comes to MLS and isn't able to play all the games asked of him at 100%.

[SKB]

I don't think TFC should be focusing on two DP strikers in the off season. Dike looks like starting material. I would prefer a DP Striker and a DP AM. It would provide far more balance to our lineup next season.

This is a good point, I forgot Laba is a DP so we only have 2 DP slots open. I like Orosio a lot but feel he is not the general of the midfield we are looking for. What would Messi be without Iniesta? However we need goals. Earnshaw has been a good addition but is really a 8-10 goal person. He does not finish consistently enough. We need a 15-20 goal striker as a starter. To be a contender you need 50 goals a season. Where will they come from? If we can get an attacking mf (dp) who scores 10 goals a season, plus a 15 goal dp striker then that is a possible. The rest of the 25 goals come from: 10 Earnshaw/Dike, 9 Oriosorio/Rey, 2 laba, 4 defense

If we cannot get AM with 10 goals then must go to 2 DP strikers. Also the choice is dependent on what tactics Ryan deploys.

[flamehawk]

This is a good point, I forgot Laba is a DP so we only have 2 DP slots open. I like Orosio a lot but feel he is not the general of the midfield we are looking for. What would Messi be without Iniesta? However we need goals. Earnshaw has been a good addition but is really a 8-10 goal person. He does not finish consistently enough. We need a 15-20 goal striker as a starter. To be a contender you need 50 goals a season. Where will they come from? If we can get an attacking mf (dp) who scores 10 goals a season, plus a 15 goal dp striker then that is a possible. The rest of the 25 goals come from: 10 Earnshaw/Dike, 9 Oriosorio/Rey, 2 laba, 4 defense


Sorry, I don't mean to be 'that guy', but I've seen you misspell Osorio's name a number of times. Considering how much you rate him, thought I'd give you the heads up.

[SKB]

So Larson is suggesting Lamps will play from Aug 2013 straight through until Oct/Nov 2014 with maybe a two week vacay after the WC? At 36 by then?

Sounds to me like a DP who comes to MLS and isn't able to play all the games asked of him at 100%.

Yes a good point, Lampart is not what we are looking for. Remember when Beckham came to the MLS he was 31 not 36.

[SKB]

Sorry, I don't mean to be 'that guy', but I've seen you misspell Osorio's name a number of times. Considering how much you rate him, thought I'd give you the heads up.

Thanks, a bit of a problem with my auto spell check but will keep aware of that in future.

[jabbronies]

No thanks. He's substitute quality on any of the better teams in this league, let's leave it at that.
Agreed with this about Dike.

I think he is a guy who comes off the bench in the 75th minute to change the game up - Similar to Russels role.
If he does start - it's either because someone is injured or, again, to change things up.

But no way in hell is he a regular starter.

[pdubs]

Jermain Defoe on the bench today. Only seems to play Europa league games lol. Adebayor not even on the bench today hasn't been used this season. On the bench few days ago during Europa league play. Anyone else worried these two targets are not starting consistently in the EPL? Defoe is doing really well in Europa tho 4 game and 6 goals. Tho Spurs manager does rate Defoe apparently pre-match said how good he was but keeps starting Soldado.

Here is an article on Adebayor and how a lot of fans don't ever want to see him play again lol.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1822654-tottenham-hotspur-does-emmanuel-adebayor-deserve-a-last-chance

[ag futbol]

In the end, the amount of money we pay is probably going to prevent any chance of this going badly but I have to cast a skeptical eye on this whole process they are running.

If you wikipedia'd ex-english/italian internationals over 30 who play attacking positions and are so-so in terms of their european club form you'd have our whole shopping list. This doesn't reflect any real due diligence in my opinion. We keep hearing about "the right player", well I don't see anyone on staff who can accurately point out who one of those is. TW wants a brand and RN just wants something that he knows (which isn't very wide in scope).

[jloome]

No thanks. He's substitute quality on any of the better teams in this league, let's leave it at that.

He legitimately beat Kris Boyd out for the starting job in Portland last season, scored five goals in their next 12 games, then got reinjured in the offseason. He's good enough to start in MLS.

The issue is his fragility due to his size of frame. Big strikers go down a lot and he's already shown this.

To me, he's probably our number two target man, depending on what system we're playing. If we have two up top he's a number three or four striker, if we have one up top, he's second or third in line after we hire a clinical finisher.

I think ideally you're right but he's good enough to start in a regular string of games if we lose the DP.

[jloome]

Funny how all the talk the day before was the Italian agent who was here yesterday and then, whoops, in a Sun article, its all about the EPL.

I think they are keeping their options open and have about 6 strong targets they have likely approached.

If they're doing their jobs properly, they have a hot list with a LOT of names on it and are working their way down it. The mere fact of bias against playing in North America means that if you go after six guys, maybe two are real candidates. Then factor in competition with other MLS markets and more money in smaller leagues and you're left with one guy holding you over a barrel (ala Darren o'Dea.)

Given that they also have non DP starting positions to fill to be competitive, they should be talking to at least 20 players and agents, probably more. Hell, as a complete rank amateur doing it for fun my own "to be considered" list of south Americans is 40 players long.

[Yohan]

Mark Bloom is coming back next season. Nelsen is going to spend a bit of allocation money buying him from Atlanta. (Bloom is on loan at TFC) This is just my gut feeling btw

I think he has been just as good as Ecks. Not as intense, but just as focused and keeps his game simple. He combined very well with Rey last game. Not that this means much, but he's technically way better than Richter, and can whip in a cross better than Ecks.

[jloome]

Mark Bloom is coming back next season. Nelsen is going to spend a bit of allocation money buying him from Atlanta. (Bloom is on loan at TFC) This is just my gut feeling btw

I think he has been just as good as Ecks. Not as intense, but just as focused and keeps his game simple. He combined very well with Rey last game. Not that this means much, but he's technically way better than Richter, and can whip in a cross better than Ecks.


Mark Bloom is coming back next season. Nelsen is going to spend a bit of allocation money buying him from Atlanta. (Bloom is on loan at TFC) This is just my gut feeling btw

I think he has been just as good as Ecks. Not as intense, but just as focused and keeps his game simple. He combined very well with Rey last game. Not that this means much, but he's technically way better than Richter, and can whip in a cross better than Ecks.

He seems to be a good fullback.

My bigger worry is the idea a 36 year old lampard is going to be a "Number 10" according to Larsen's article. This is a speedy league and he's a good two-way player, but at 36?

On top of that, Bezbatchenko says he wants "hardened" MLS players in terms of their other signings, which means they mean to a) raid players waived, which is often productive in MLS due to cap constraints or b) trade with other teams ... but for what, allocation cash? That would be a nice reversal.

There are A LOT of inexpensive players from smaller nations with better soccer pedigrees than NA coming into MLS right now; look at LA, Portland, Dallas, Colorado ... their key players are often guys who were being paid squat in Venezuela or Panama or Uruguay despite DP-level quality. Look at Gabby Torres; sure they're giving him low DP money, but just to beat out Euro competition. It's not because most of the leagues south of Mexico actually pay that well.

Again, their answer so far is to buy goals with millions and build from known MLS quantities. That doesn't seem like a very broad and sensible development strategy; where's the scouting, the cheaper players we can sell on later for a profit? Let's at least hear that it's going on.

I'll make a prediction RIGHT NOW: If camp opens and we don't have a) one of the two DPs already locked up and playing in the first half of the season; b) at least a half-dozen SIGNED new players, with two or three fresh faces, we can kiss the playoffs goodbye in 2014.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that if DOneil doesn't start, he'll stall; HE'S NOT READY. He still ball watches, he still gets caught, he still makes dumb decisions. He's only 21; most (not the outliers, the majority) defenders don't peak professionally until their late 20s. We should trade Agbossomounde, as I don't think from his play he'll ever be a smart enough footballer to succeed at this level, at least not for several years. Then we should use Doneil as the third CB, which means he'll get plenty of game time over the season and development.

We could sign lampard and defoe and have them both here for the start of the season, and this team probably still would not make the playoffs ,as we're weak (compared to most teams) at left back, center half, central midfield (Osorio is a better wide player in this league or true winger/outside forward) and on both wings. Convey and Rey might both be starter quality in MLS but I'm not totally convinced and we certainly need real competition.

I'd see our starting lineup right now as a patchwork of:
----------Bendik------------
Bloom--NEW CB--Caldwell--NEW LB
Rey/New winger -- LABA -- New CM -- Coney/New winger
----------Dike/New starting striker ---- New starting striker.

Seriously, I know you watch a lot of other MLS teams. It's not just that we're weak in starting, it's that we have ZERO depth. Portland and KC, by comparison, are often three deep at each position with guys who could challenge for a start.

I actually think their play improved after Payne left, so maybe Nelsen was being restricted to dump and chase by his boss; we've seen play to the open field and open man a lot more since he left. That's not a Nelsen endorsement, just a positive thing to note.

But this team still has huge work to do, and if all we come into camp with is this team, three or four MLS journeymen and a promise of two aging Brit DPs, we're in for a looooong 2014.

[ag futbol]

He legitimately beat Kris Boyd out for the starting job in Portland last season, scored five goals in their next 12 games, then got reinjured in the offseason. He's good enough to start in MLS.

The issue is his fragility due to his size of frame. Big strikers go down a lot and he's already shown this.

To me, he's probably our number two target man, depending on what system we're playing. If we have two up top he's a number three or four striker, if we have one up top, he's second or third in line after we hire a clinical finisher.

I think ideally you're right but he's good enough to start in a regular string of games if we lose the DP.
That's fair. The better MLS teams actually have some depth at striker and in the midfield so they can rotate. I don't mind him starting on occasion, he's not Justin Braun. But I wouldn't use him as option 1A for an entire season. That's sort of what I'm getting. He's good enough to be serviceable, but I wouldn't put him in the same class as the best forwards in the league, which is realistically what we want up top as the first option.

[OgtheDim]

When I read that Larson considered Lampard a #10 I just shook my head. That, and again, his fiance is not going to move.

He's a name being thrown out there to deflect. Its not just agents who do that.

[ag futbol]

I'd see how Kevon Black looks in September and see if he's ready to take a step up from the academy. I think he'll eventually hit the pro ranks, its only a question of when he physically matures. Looked excellent at the U17 world cup. All of our academy players did actually.

[pdubs]

all season long this year lampard is used in a holding role of their 4-2-3-1. Due to his age and lack of pace.

[Marc"2L"]

Ill walk if its Lampard, unfuckingbelievable.

I would rather have the Argos then a management team that thinks a 35 year old being told "don't go to MLS ever" is going to be the man to help turn it around.

This is just blowing smoke right?

[SKB]

Ill walk if its Lampard, unfuckingbelievable.

I would rather have the Argos then a management team that thinks a 35 year old being told "don't go to MLS ever" is going to be the man to help turn it around.

This is just blowing smoke right?

This is just smoke. Larson is also a very unreliable source of information.

[Yohan]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/10/27/report-toronto-fc-chasing-tottenham-hotspur-england-striker-jermain-defoe?


More specifically, Bezbatchenko discussed the type of player the Reds are looking for: goal scorers.“We need to score goals," he said. "If we can get a No. 9 and a No. 10, that would be great ... It’s up to the players to decide if they want to come to MLS.
Sounds like TFC is going after a playmaker too. Though if TFC thinks Lampard is the playmaker they are looking for, boy, going to be helluva shock when they find out Lampard can't play that role in MLS

[SKB]

Jloome

You make some valuable points. Yes, I agree with you that we need 1 of the dp strikers in place for the start of the season and we need to add some depth players. Management indicated they need depth and have some MLS players they want to acquire. However, the amount of change you are suggesting is too much. This has been the problem with the club since there has been no consistency from year to year. We need the same coach and some semblance of core players. In terms of defense the team only gave up 2 goals in the last 3 games. Striker, AM and some depth to start the season and we will be improved. I am optimistic in that this is the first season we do not have to make whole sale changes.

[notthesun]

I don't even really care about the names. The fact Bez mentions he's looking for a #10 in addition to a #9 is good, at least that means he's aware this team needs a creative midfielder/CF.

[Soccerpro]

I'm a bit concerned by Bez's plan in the Larson article. Throw a few million at Jermaine Defoe? How's that plan working for Seattle and Clint Dempsey so far? Lampard = has to be a joke.

However my biggest concern is when Bez says that the 2014 team will have to "hold the fort" until the big guns arrive later in the season? What makes anyone think a TFC can hold down anything even for a game without it's absolute strongest roster? "Hold on! We have a 32 year old coming half way through the season when we're out of the playoffs already who will be 33 next year, and we might sign a 35 year old too"! Hasn't TFC learned it's lesson from Frings and Danny K?

I liked the direction KP was looking at (South American players) It's too bad his brains didn't match his vision (terrible draft, just terrible).

[TFC07]

I'm a bit concerned by Bez's plan in the Larson article. Throw a few million at Jermaine Defoe? How's that plan working for Seattle and Clint Dempsey so far? Lampard = has to be a joke.

However my biggest concern is when Bez says that the 2014 team will have to "hold the fort" until the big guns arrive later in the season? What makes anyone think a TFC can hold down anything even for a game without it's absolute strongest roster? "Hold on! We have a 32 year old coming half way through the season when we're out of the playoffs already who will be 33 next year, and we might sign a 35 year old too"! Hasn't TFC learned it's lesson from Frings and Danny K?

I liked the direction KP was looking at (South American players) It's too bad his brains didn't match his vision (terrible draft, just terrible).

KP plan would have taken years to see any success and even then, there was no guarantees if South American players would have workout or not though. For a club like TFC with backing of owners willing to spend big money, it's better to go after bigger and better players who can make an impact right away instead of developing players on DP contracts and hoping they become impact players down the line. We have enough young players as it is, so why not sign players in their prime or little past of their prime who have played at highest level (played well I might add)?

[Yohan]

KP plan would have taken years to see any success and even then, there was no guarantees if South American players would have workout or not though. Also KP way doesn't work in MLS 2.0 anymore. For a club like TFC with backing of owners willing to spend big money, it's better to go after bigger and better players who can make an impact right away instead of developing players on DP contracts and hoping they become an impact players down the line. We have enough young players as it is, so why not sign players in their prime or little past of their prime who have played at highest level (played well I might add)?
I don't care who you sign, but generally you don't get impact right away. Most players need about half season to get used to the league. (Even Thierry Henry)

[TFC07]

I don't care who you sign, but generally you don't get impact right away. Most players need about half season to get used to the league. (Even Thierry Henry)

I would take that over waiting for few years hoping your "youth" DP signings pan out.

EDIT: KP ways is great for a small club, but TFC isn't a small club (based on ownership and market). Toronto needs to act more like a big club which they are finally doing. I just hope Lewieke and Nelsen deliver in the off-season.

[Richard]

There is a great quote from Sir Alex, "I believe in building a football club rather than building a football team".

A lot can be said about that in regards to the way TFC has tried to do things.

Alex later on says they shouldnt stop developing or scout for talent just because ManU they money and are big.

[jloome]

Jloome

You make some valuable points. Yes, I agree with you that we need 1 of the dp strikers in place for the start of the season and we need to add some depth players. Management indicated they need depth and have some MLS players they want to acquire. However, the amount of change you are suggesting is too much. This has been the problem with the club since there has been no consistency from year to year. We need the same coach and some semblance of core players. In terms of defense the team only gave up 2 goals in the last 3 games. Striker, AM and some depth to start the season and we will be improved. I am optimistic in that this is the first season we do not have to make whole sale changes.

It's a good point. Cohesion is a big part of why we've failed in the past, and teams need time to gel.

Havign said that, this team, even cohesively, is not two parts away from challenging and we're late in the season with teams tired and broken down, while we've got a younger squad.

I'll reiterate: I think Nelsen probably was handcuffed tactically by Payne; that was the rep on him at DC as well.

But if they're already signed by training camp, we should easily be able to fit four or five more key players into our existing squad and be cohesive early in the season. That's just good planning -- again , we've NEVER had all or even most signed by training camp except for the Carver/Cummins year, when we missed the playoffs by one game. So it's hard to say how much that also has affected the cohesion.

[jloome]

KP plan would have taken years to see any success and even then, there was no guarantees if South American players would have workout or not though. For a club like TFC with backing of owners willing to spend big money, it's better to go after bigger and better players who can make an impact right away instead of developing players on DP contracts and hoping they become impact players down the line. We have enough young players as it is, so why not sign players in their prime or little past of their prime who have played at highest level (played well I might add)?


This assumes you need to sign the south americans to DP contracts to get them, which often isn't the case and certainly wouldn't be if MLS were scouting and signing more aggressively. Waiting until a young player has led the Colombian first division in scoring twice when he'd already won the second division title twice, for example, was stupid. There are MANY young prospects down there who are wooable with enough money who are getting significant statistical minutes at the first or second-division leve at ages 16-19, and still don't get signed until they're in their early 20s. Big clubs in Europe often won't take a risk because ANY transfer of a young talent from there costs them millions. But if an MLS club came in an offered a 17-year-old Ecuadoran $175,000 a year to develop his already-considerable technical talent professionally, he's not going to turn it down when he's make $200-800 a week, which is what a lot of smaller SA leagues often pay.

He knows he's still at an age where if he showcases himself in the U.S., ala Montero, he can go to Europe on a big payday. This is obviously something they're pursuing more and more but they're being very cautious about it, perhaps because we're single entity.

[TFC07]

There is a great quote from Sir Alex, "I believe in building a football club rather than building a football team".

A lot can be said about that in regards to the way TFC has tried to do things.

Alex later on says they shouldnt stop developing or scout for talent just because ManU they money and are big.

TFC never went big with their signings. They always operated as a small club.

We can't sign bunch of young unknown players outside of NA and hope they pan out. We need players in their prime on this club as well so we can actually win games and be competitive.

We already got a decent academy that is producing players for first team. So problem isn't kids, but overpaying players (especially international players) then using DP slots on unknown players or injury prone players. This club finally is getting rid of overpaid players and targeting DP's who have proven to be successful at highest level (Frings was only our high profile signing who played alright, but injuries and age caught up on him in the end).

[Yohan]

Man. Koevs gets no love, and he's been more effective than Frings when he was healthy

[TFC07]

This assumes you need to sign the south americans to DP contracts to get them, which often isn't the case and certainly wouldn't be if MLS were scouting and signing more aggressively. Waiting until a young player has led the Colombian first division in scoring twice when he'd already won the second division title twice, for example, was stupid. There are MANY young prospects down there who are wooable with enough money who are getting significant statistical minutes at the first or second-division leve at ages 16-19, and still don't get signed until they're in their early 20s. Big clubs in Europe often won't take a risk because ANY transfer of a young talent from there costs them millions. But if an MLS club came in an offered a 17-year-old Ecuadoran $175,000 a year to develop his already-considerable technical talent professionally, he's not going to turn it down when he's make $200-800 a week, which is what a lot of smaller SA leagues often pay.

He knows he's still at an age where if he showcases himself in the U.S., ala Montero, he can go to Europe on a big payday. This is obviously something they're pursuing more and more but they're being very cautious about it, perhaps because we're single entity.

That requires a lot of scouting (which TFC lacks) to sign these sort of players. I don't mind it as long it doesn't cost much on salary cap, but I am sure it will be hard to get these players because of their clubs (just look at Urruti and how much BS TFC had to go through to sign him). Not only that, you also got to factor in if they can handle off-field side of things (travelling, living in colder climate, language barrier etc.).

[TFC07]

Man. Koevs gets no love, and he's been more effective than Frings when he was healthy

Yes, but Koevs was never healthy and usually out of shape. Besides that crazy run he had last year for 10 games, he hasn't done much for us.

[Yohan]

Yes, but Koevs was never healthy and usually out of shape. Besides that crazy run he had last year for 10 games, he hasn't done much for us.
Frings was pretty injury prone as well.

Koevermans played 30 games for TFC in total, and scored 17. The ratio is higher if you discount this season. TFC never had someone of his strike rate. Koevermans is going to be one of those 'what if' things, if he didn't get injured at New England.
I don't care how 'out of shape' you are, if you have the strike rate Koevs have

[ag futbol]

I'm a bit concerned by Bez's plan in the Larson article. Throw a few million at Jermaine Defoe? How's that plan working for Seattle and Clint Dempsey so far? Lampard = has to be a joke.

However my biggest concern is when Bez says that the 2014 team will have to "hold the fort" until the big guns arrive later in the season? What makes anyone think a TFC can hold down anything even for a game without it's absolute strongest roster? "Hold on! We have a 32 year old coming half way through the season when we're out of the playoffs already who will be 33 next year, and we might sign a 35 year old too"! Hasn't TFC learned it's lesson from Frings and Danny K?

I liked the direction KP was looking at (South American players) It's too bad his brains didn't match his vision (terrible draft, just terrible).
I'm with you on this one. If we weren't caught up on paying for a brand name we could get much better footballers, in their 20s who would stick with this club for a long time.

[ag futbol]

Koevermans played 30 games for TFC in total, and scored 17. The ratio is higher if you discount this season. TFC never had someone of his strike rate. Koevermans is going to be one of those 'what if' things, if he didn't get injured at New England.
I don't care how 'out of shape' you are, if you have the strike rate Koevs have
But you can't just ignore the injuries and focus on the strike rate. Statistically a one in two striker who plays half a season is the same as a one in four striker who plays the whole year. It's not like his salary cuts in half based on the number of games he plays, we are still on the hook for it.

[Yohan]

But you can't just ignore the injuries and focus on the strike rate. Statistically a one in two striker who plays half a season is the same as a one in four striker who plays the whole year. It's not like his salary cuts in half based on the number of games he plays, we are still on the hook for it.
it just feels wrong to condemn a player as a failure on a freak injury that a GM has no idea whether it's going to happen or not before he signs the player

and for those comparing Frings to Koevermans, Frings only played 33 league games, scoring 2 goals 3 assists.

[Alonso]

Agreed with this about Dike.

I think he is a guy who comes off the bench in the 75th minute to change the game up - Similar to Russels role.
If he does start - it's either because someone is injured or, again, to change things up.

But no way in hell is he a regular starter.


I think he has the potential to be and needs to be weened in...

Definitely should start friendlies and NCC or whatever its called this year and the odd game against teams that we play well against.

[Alonso]

But this team still has huge work to do, and if all we come into camp with is this team, three or four MLS journeymen and a promise of two aging Brit DPs, we're in for a looooong 2014.


THIS ^^^^^


Our season next year is a write off if this is the plan coming down from the front office.

This league is way too tight to gave away a single game to "players being unavailable" - 2 DP's in summer transfer as the 'Big Hope' is the kiss of death to next season.... We wouldn't be able to statistically make up the difference. (not to mention that that is a shit message to send out to our team and to the fans... "don't worry, we suck now, but wait till x and x arrive" these poor DP's would have one foot in the grave.

[Alonso]

I'm a bit concerned by Bez's plan in the Larson article. Throw a few million at Jermaine Defoe? How's that plan working for Seattle and Clint Dempsey so far? Lampard = has to be a joke.

However my biggest concern is when Bez says that the 2014 team will have to "hold the fort" until the big guns arrive later in the season? What makes anyone think a TFC can hold down anything even for a game without it's absolute strongest roster? "Hold on! We have a 32 year old coming half way through the season when we're out of the playoffs already who will be 33 next year, and we might sign a 35 year old too"! Hasn't TFC learned it's lesson from Frings and Danny K?

I liked the direction KP was looking at (South American players) It's too bad his brains didn't match his vision (terrible draft, just terrible).


This is what I'm getting at....


This would be a horrible plan for our team for 2014.

[Abou Sky]

This is what I'm getting at....


This would be a horrible plan for our team for 2014.

Problem is that 2014 is world cup, what do you propose? Best player from Jordan joins up?

[Abou Sky]

Do you think we could get Reggie Lambe to 'come out of the closet' then trade him to NY for Tim Cahill?

Seemed to work out reasonably well for Chicago....

(note, not saying RL is gay, but he can take one for the team here, c'mon, first black openly gay footballer, I smell a winner here)

[Alonso]

Problem is that 2014 is world cup, what do you propose? Best player from Jordan joins up?


I'd rather add any world class player that can start in January, then not.

Fuck the big names.

Get quality, from any region of the world, that can start now.

Pay me $50,000, and I'll find them for the team, but it's their fucking job to do.

The idea that we start the season with a leg cut off seems beyond fucking stupid to me.... But since we have done it 7 years in a row, I wouldn't be surprised.



Edit: Danny Koevs is the perfect example. Yeah he was injured the whole time. But no one knew who he was before he arrived, and he fucking tore this league a new one LITERALLY!

This is the due diligence and players that I want from this club. These players are hard to find but you have to believe, given the global nature of the game that there are 50 of them willing and able to be signed for us right now.

[Haddy]

I'd rather add any world class player that can start in January, then not.

Fuck the big names.

Get quality, from any region of the world, that can start now.

Pay me $50,000, and I'll find them for the team, but it's their fucking job to do.

The idea that we start the season with a leg cut off seems beyond fucking stupid to me.... But since we have done it 7 years in a row, I wouldn't be surprised.



Edit: Danny Koevs is the perfect example. Yeah he was injured the whole time. But no one knew who he was before he arrived, and he fucking tore this league a new one LITERALLY!

This is the due diligence and players that I want from this club. These players are hard to find but you have to believe, given the global nature of the game that there are 50 of them willing and able to be signed for us right now.

:iagree:

They'd also save some $$ that can help pay for all the stadium upgrades. It's not rocket science. Or it is, and Alonso really needs to ask for a raise at work.

[Soccerpro]

I'd rather add any world class player that can start in January, then not.

Fuck the big names.

Get quality, from any region of the world, that can start now.

Pay me $50,000, and I'll find them for the team, but it's their fucking job to do.

The idea that we start the season with a leg cut off seems beyond fucking stupid to me.... But since we have done it 7 years in a row, I wouldn't be surprised.



Edit: Danny Koevs is the perfect example. Yeah he was injured the whole time. But no one knew who he was before he arrived, and he fucking tore this league a new one LITERALLY!

This is the due diligence and players that I want from this club. These players are hard to find but you have to believe, given the global nature of the game that there are 50 of them willing and able to be signed for us right now.

This ^

[jloome]

I'd rather add any world class player that can start in January, then not.

Fuck the big names.

Get quality, from any region of the world, that can start now.

Pay me $50,000, and I'll find them for the team, but it's their fucking job to do.

The idea that we start the season with a leg cut off seems beyond fucking stupid to me.... But since we have done it 7 years in a row, I wouldn't be surprised.



Edit: Danny Koevs is the perfect example. Yeah he was injured the whole time. But no one knew who he was before he arrived, and he fucking tore this league a new one LITERALLY!

This is the due diligence and players that I want from this club. These players are hard to find but you have to believe, given the global nature of the game that there are 50 of them willing and able to be signed for us right now.

Man, people act like finding obvious talent is hard even though you can get stats on almost any pro league instantly these days.

Some basic logic applies; I was recommending Camillo when he was the leading scorer in the Malta league because it has sent players to bigger clubs than us and he scored FIFTY goals. I don't care how small the pro league; a young Brazilian cat scores fifty and is TOTALLY affordable? Then I understand he was even OFFERED to us and we turned down even a look.

Common sense and due diligence aren't complex or difficult, but in corporately dominated environments where personality trumps work, that's easily forgotten.

[mowe]

I'd rather add any world class player that can start in January, then not.

Who wouldn't?

But you have to be realistic. Even Koevermans didn't want to come here in January, but Winter managed to get him in June. It's just that most leagues end in the summer and it's tough to convince a player to leave midseason to come to MLS.

This is magnified tenfold in a World Cup year. Not many world-class players will be willing to move unless it's to a bigger league that gets them more exposure.

In any case Bezbatchenko seems to want what most fans are calling for: build a solid base of MLS players first then add DPs to get to the next level.

How far along we are to assembling a capable foundation is up for debate. Right now I'd say Bendik, Caldwell, Laba, Osorio, Rey, Dike, Bloom, Henry (average age 24.5) are all decent players worth building around. But we still need 3-4 more MLS starting-level players.

IF we can get them this team will be competitive. Then, in an ideal world, you add a top-level DP or two and then we can dream.

This January window will be crucial to fill the holes on this team, maybe not with DPs but with the critical $100k-200k level players that are the backbone of every MLS club. Bezbatchenko has the right idea of taking advantage of cap-clogged teams and spending that good old allocation. If a DP addition has to wait until August I can live with it as long as we have a good foundation in place in January.

[Haddy]

Here's the list of players that Ryan Nelsen's agent represents: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/james-grant-sports-management/details/berater_641.html

[brad]

Frings was pretty injury prone as well.

Koevermans played 30 games for TFC in total, and scored 17. The ratio is higher if you discount this season. TFC never had someone of his strike rate. Koevermans is going to be one of those 'what if' things, if he didn't get injured at New England.
I don't care how 'out of shape' you are, if you have the strike rate Koevs have

I believe he has one of the highest strike rates in the history of the league. A saw an article last year I think that put him at #2 for goals/minutes in the history of the league (for players that played over 10 games). And that was all done as a classic poacher feeding on scraps. Imagine if he had actually had some quality service...

And you last line gives me reason to post one of my all time favorite stories (again). While very obviously in a different class here, it's about Brazilian Ronaldo in his later, chubby days. During a Real Madrid game he wasn't running much. One of his team mates ran by him and and started yelling at him for not running. A couple of minutes he scored, jogged past the same player and said "I don't run, I score"....

[Greatest Ripoff]

So now that the season is officially over will Nelsen loan out some TFC players as mentioned a few months ago?

[jloome]

Here's the list of players that Ryan Nelsen's agent represents: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/james-grant-sports-management/details/berater_641.html

More evidence that teams rely too much on agent pitches; three Sunderland starters? Gee, I wonder why Jozy ended up there.

[flamehawk]

Ecks announces what we all probably know, "It's clear I won't be here next season." But, he says he loves the club, wants to stay, and that the contract affected his season.

These issues make the salary cap pretty frustrating

[Ivy]

I probably should have posted this earlier, but last time I spoke with Ecks, he wanted me to pass this along to you guys
Says he loves the support, and it's the fans that make it much easier to play for TFC. He wants to stay, but the money he's brig offered isn't realistic in terms of changes that he'll have to make to his life style; especially because he's been talked to a few clubs in Europe, which is where he said he will likely end up, unless he gets Close to TFC money at another club (he also mentioned that a couple MLS clubs inquired about his services). Bottom line, he says a big big thanks to every single one of us and the tremendous support he was shown while he was here.

[OgtheDim]

He can make more somewhere else, as he should. And TFC, legitimately, should not be paying a player in his position as much as they are.

[Haddy]

Earnshaw has confirmed he is under contract for 2014. Convey's contract is expiring - he's not sure if he'll stay or sign on a free elsewhere.

Bendik expects to return and on more money.

[Canary10]

They should sign Convey for next year in my opinion.

Weird on Earnshaw. Larson tweets he hasn't discussed a contract for next year yet. Molinaro said he has a contract until end of 2014. Which is it?

[gdg_9]

Earnshaw has confirmed he is under contract for 2014. Convey's contract is expiring - he's not sure if he'll stay or sign on a free elsewhere.

Bendik expects to return and on more money.

Apparently Convey wants to stay, and expects to be back next season.
Obviously that will depend on contract negotiations.

[gdg_9]

They should sign Convey for next year in my opinion.

Weird on Earnshaw. Larson tweets he hasn't discussed a contract for next year yet. Molinaro said he has a contract until end of 2014. Which is it?

Could be both...?

Discuss re-structuring?

Contract may not be guaranteed.

[Initial B]

Is there any chance that DK would bite at a $100-150K guaranteed salary offer and the expectation that he would be used as a super-sub later in games? I would take him at that salary over Braun any day.

[Canary10]

Could be both...?

Discuss re-structuring?

Contract may not be guaranteed.

Maybe. Better have him signed though. If these two attacking players aren't here until August we'll have zero threat up front without him. It's hard enough with him, and he's by far the best we have.

[gdg_9]

Is there any chance that DK would bite at a $100-150K guaranteed salary offer and the expectation that he would be used as a super-sub later in games? I would take him at that salary over Braun any day.

Judging from his interview with Neil Davidson the other day, it sounds like that ship has sailed...


I'd love him as a super sub on 150k tho... guy really seemed to get it. cared about this club.

Maybe if he doesn't catch on with a Dutch team it might be revisited?

[OgtheDim]

From that article about DK, he wants a guaranteed contract, has been told its not happening, and has started the move back to the Netherlands.

Time to move on.

[pdubs]

John Molinaro ‏@JohnMolinaro (https://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro) Koevs: transition all the time. Seen 54 players cons and go. Says it all. Get Urutti and then trade him. Hope next guys do it right. #TFC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC&src=hash)

[Haddy]

Sounds like DK is really being honest during his exit presser. Good to see. Can't wait to watch the video once it's up.

[flamehawk]

Duane Rollin's tweet - "Of the bubble players Rey most likely gone because of salary. I think they will go in-league for wide attacking options to replace"

Hopefully this is out of thin air. I think Rey has proven his worth as one of the more impressive players in the last part of the season. Big mistake to get rid of him.

[flamehawk]

Sounds like DK is really being honest during his exit presser. Good to see. Can't wait to watch the video once it's up.



And again, great that he's speaking out for players on the lower end of things - calling for a raise in minimum wage. He said some players actually take food and water from the club home.

[flamehawk]

Nelsen on Koevermans: The guy on 35k doesn't need an arm around him

Wtf is that supposed to mean?

[gdg_9]

And again, great that he's speaking out for players on the lower end of things - calling for a raise in minimum wage. He said some players actually take food and water from the club home.

This really isn't surprising...

Look at a guy like Richter making $35k.
How is anyone supposed to afford living in Toronto on that money?!
Especially when they are not from here (ie. have no family or established support system to help out).

Say what you will about a guy like Richter's performance on the pitch, he is still a professional athlete.
He has high expectations and requirements to revolve his entire life around his training, fitness, team travel, etc. - it is more than a 9-5 job.

35k is embarrasing, especially when you consider the $$$ being made by owners with the players as the product, not to mention the descrepancy of pay between players on the same team.
These players go to work together every day, train together just as hard, and have the same expectations and commitments required of them.
Yet one is a millionaire, the other is probably living very close to, if not below, the poverty line (when you consider cost-of-living in Toronto).


MLS will never be a truly respected league until this is addressed, and good on Koev's for calling them out on it!

[Haddy]

Nelsen says 100% Bloom not going anywhere.

[MartinUtd]

Duane Rollin's tweet - "Of the bubble players Rey most likely gone because of salary. I think they will go in-league for wide attacking options to replace"

Hopefully this is out of thin air. I think Rey has proven his worth as one of the more impressive players in the last part of the season. Big mistake to get rid of him.

Someones I wonder if Duane tRollins watches the team play before penning an article.

[flamehawk]

This really isn't surprising...

Look at a guy like Richter making $35k.
How is anyone supposed to afford living in Toronto on that money?!
Especially when they are not from here (ie. have no family or established support system to help out).

Say what you will about a guy like Richter's performance on the pitch, he is still a professional athlete.
He has high expectations and requirements to revolve his entire life around his training, fitness, team travel, etc. - it is more than a 9-5 job.

35k is embarrasing, especially when you consider the $$$ being made by owners with the players as the product, not to mention the descrepancy of pay between players on the same team.
These players go to work together every day, train together just as hard, and have the same expectations and commitments required of them.
Yet one is a millionaire, the other is probably living very close to, if not below, the poverty line (when you consider cost-of-living in Toronto).


MLS will never be a truly respected league until this is addressed, and good on Koev's for calling them out on it!

I absolutely agree. That's why, if indeed this is what Nelsen said, it's shameful that Nelsen could suggest what Koev's is arguing as patronizing.

Ha, my only wish was that Koev's would extend this argument to raising Ontario's minimum wage. If he thinks it's bad for the players (and it is) wait till he sees how well the food staff and stewards are living off their wages.

[Richard]

Nelsen is such a prick for saying that. Wait, it must be that New Zealand humor, yeah right :facepalm:.

I want to like the guy but he comes out every few weeks with shit like this, guy needs to get a clue.

[ag futbol]

Nelsen says 100% Bloom not going anywhere.
We need to be practical. Bloom is okay, but if Atlanta wants to ask for anything but minimum dollars we should balk. No more Eckersley / Plata situations where we get stuck with big bills for familiar faces. Although, judging by his attitude towards Rey is sounds like that won't be too much of a problem. Wonder how much he is getting... I'd be hesitant to just unload someone like that. The wing play in MLS is generally garbage. Getting rid of a guy who can run defenders and get in a good cross should require some sober second thought. I don't want a second Bobby Convey.

[Auzzy]

Nelsen on Koevermans: The guy on 35k doesn't need an arm around him

Wtf is that supposed to mean?

Nelsen doesn't like to avoid being an ass. He didn't even need to get into this. Koevermans was talking about raising the league minimum. Hardly concerns TFC directly. Nelsen could have said something like "Football is a tough business, I'll leave the discussion of league minimums and the like to the league, the players' union, and the next collective agreement." But he twists it into an attack on Koevermans.

[mowe]

Nelsen doesn't like to avoid being an ass. He didn't even need to get into this. Koevermans was talking about raising the league minimum. Hardly concerns TFC directly. Nelsen could have said something like "Football is a tough business, I'll leave the discussion of league minimums and the like to the league, the players' union, and the next collective agreement." But he twists it into an attack on Koevermans.

Let's wait to actually watch the video before dissecting a random tweet.

[Yohan]

Fun fact: After Ecks and Frei leaves, Doneil Henry is now the longest serving TFC player (signed Aug 10)

[Canary10]

We need to be practical. Bloom is okay, but if Atlanta wants to ask for anything but minimum dollars we should balk. No more Eckersley / Plata situations where we get stuck with big bills for familiar faces. Although, judging by his attitude towards Rey is sounds like that won't be too much of a problem. Wonder how much he is getting... I'd be hesitant to just unload someone like that. The wing play in MLS is generally garbage. Getting rid of a guy who can run defenders and get in a good cross should require some sober second thought. I don't want a second Bobby Convey.

Why the negativity for Convey? He's one of those Steven Koren type players every MLS team needs. Not too good, not too bad, firmly in the middle of the curve. We don't have enough of these guys, yet we run them out of town for some reason.

[Ivy]

Fun fact: After Ecks and Frei leaves, Doneil Henry is now the longest serving TFC player (signed Aug 10)
Ashton Morgan?

[Yohan]

Ashton Morgan?
Signed Mar 11

[ag futbol]

Why the negativity for Convey? He's one of those Steven Koren type players every MLS team needs. Not too good, not too bad, firmly in the middle of the curve. We don't have enough of these guys, yet we run them out of town for some reason.
Bobby Convey has been telling people he wants to be an architect (recycled joke).

But in all seriousness I don't think Convey is the Steven Koren type of player we are looking for. Just not enough end product for me and a bit too expensive. Don't think he is effective at all going forward.

[TFC07]

Losing Rey will be huge loss for us.

I don't mind Convey coming back as long he doesn't get more than $150,000.

[sashavukelich]

When he was quoted saying "Guys on 35k don't need an arm around them" it really refers to

1) Players on the low end of the salary cap are often fighting for jobs and are willing to put it all on the line to stay pros
2) Odds are they are where they are from hard work and not from as much natural talent, thus they don't complain etc.

I'm with Nelsen on this one, he wants men to fight, I don't think he wants to be a Nanny.

[ag futbol]

Sounds similar to the Miller comment for me. He needs to better understand what he's speaking about before opening his mouth.

If the guys "don't need an arm around them", why is the club giving them food?

[Auzzy]

Let's wait to actually watch the video before dissecting a random tweet.

If there's anything controversial or boneheaded, it might not be in the videos. So we will have to rely on both that, & what journalists report.

[flamehawk]

When he was quoted saying "Guys on 35k don't need an arm around them" it really refers to

1) Players on the low end of the salary cap are often fighting for jobs and are willing to put it all on the line to stay pros
2) Odds are they are where they are from hard work and not from as much natural talent, thus they don't complain etc.

I'm with Nelsen on this one, he wants men to fight, I don't think he wants to be a Nanny.

Uhhh... I don't care if you are on the lower-end of the talent spectrum .. you deserve fair pay, and 35k is not fair pay. I don't know where you're coming from when you suggest paying a fair wage and being concerned about the interest of people that work for you is nannying. Fuck that shit.

[jimiv]

There is certainly a disadvantage for a guy being paid league minimum in cities like Toronto, LA, New York and Chicago. I think the league should have a cost if living bonus for younger players based on where they play.

[notthesun]

Duane Rollin's tweet - "Of the bubble players Rey most likely gone because of salary. I think they will go in-league for wide attacking options to replace"

Hopefully this is out of thin air. I think Rey has proven his worth as one of the more impressive players in the last part of the season. Big mistake to get rid of him.

Having two wingers take up 400k in cap like Rey and Convey was too much. But if they're both up for new contracts, I could see us keeping Rey at around the same price and Convey accepting less money.

Rey is a tad expensive but he's settled in very well, better than I expected. I'd like to keep him.

[WestStandGeoff]

There is certainly a disadvantage for a guy being paid league minimum in cities like Toronto, LA, New York and Chicago. I think the league should have a cost if living bonus for younger players based on where they play.

Yeah, but then the league will have to start danger-pay for people who end up in places like Columbus! g:D

[Ivy]

Where's all this Rey talk coming from? Rollins?
*edit, I should hit refresh before posting. What Salary is Rey on? I can't see TFC offering convey more than 100k now that SKC won't be paying his contract.

[Yohan]

Having two wingers take up 400k in cap like Rey and Convey was too much. But if they're both up for new contracts, I could see us keeping Rey at around the same price and Convey accepting less money.

Rey is a tad expensive but he's settled in very well, better than I expected. I'd like to keep him.
200k is a fair starter wage for a winger in MLS.

[notthesun]

200k is a fair starter wage for a winger in MLS.

I guess the problem then is I don't consider Convey a starter. He's not dangerous enough on his own.

[Still Kicking]

Agree with the low end of salary being insane and double insane in the bigger cities.

You also have to look at salary from a recruitment standpoint - I think that North American families are part of the dynamic, the next great player could be a youngster now. Which sport are they likely to choose, you know it won't be boxing. I think American football and Canadian hockey have a culture and a grip that could be directly hurt by the present concern with head injuries. Baseball is struggling on the continent (but has recruitment sources from around the world). It could be soccer and basketball going head to head for the best young athletes of tomorrow. Know any pro hoops players trying to get by on 35thou? If Nelsen wants to be coaching as a career, he has to start showing some vision and keep foot from mouth.

[Pint]

Agree with the low end of salary being insane and double insane in the bigger cities.

You also have to look at salary from a recruitment standpoint - I think that North American families are part of the dynamic, the next great player could be a youngster now. Which sport are they likely to choose, you know it won't be boxing. I think American football and Canadian hockey have a culture and a grip that could be directly hurt by the present concern with head injuries. Baseball is struggling on the continent (but has recruitment sources from around the world). It could be soccer and basketball going head to head for the best young athletes of tomorrow. Know any pro hoops players trying to get by on 35thou? If Nelsen wants to be coaching as a career, he has to start showing some vision and keep foot from mouth.

Well the thing when comparing soccer and basketball is we can't compare MLS and the NBA... if you want to compare salaries we need to look at the english 3rd division or other smaller leagues around the world. Also you may want to add tennis to the list of sports if you want to make that comparison as wel not have 2 of the youngest top 50 players in the world and made the semi final of davis cup, the sport is going to grow in canada in the coming years because of milos and vasek.

[Ivy]

Tennis is not a sport.


:)

[djking2]

Assuming Nelsen was asked to respond to DK's comments about minimum earners I totally get and agree with what Nelsen was saying. They don't need cold comfort, they need money. Before (too late already I suppose) you go off on Nelsen for being a cold and heartless bastard you might want to really consider the motives here. Or you could just skewer the guy with no real reflection on what his point might be.

[pdubs]

from Larson latest article:

Ryan Nelson: “(Koevermans) gets paid what he gets paid (around $1.5 million). He gets paid and extraordinary amount. Imagine the guy who’s on $35,000 who turns up every single day and doesn’t need any arms around his shoulders and works his backside off.”


brings it into more context

http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/sports/koevermans-frei-eckersley-say-their-piece-at-post-season-presser/#.Um65yKw5mRs.twitter

[hulkrogan]

If Rey is gone I'll lose my shit. He and Laba in the midfield were the two best acquisitions of the year. No one else on the team can beat guys 1 v 1, hell, 1 v 3 like Rey can. He adds an element of creativity that they need to find more of, not get rid of.

[OgtheDim]

Rollins speculating is not TFC talking.

[Richard]

from Larson latest article:

Ryan Nelson: “(Koevermans) gets paid what he gets paid (around $1.5 million). He gets paid and extraordinary amount. Imagine the guy who’s on $35,000 who turns up every single day and doesn’t need any arms around his shoulders and works his backside off.”


brings it into more context

Well yes that does change the meaning of what he said, thanks for posting it.

[SoccMan2]

This league is generaly pretty stable now,therefore, now is the time they need to look at the salary cap, it needs to be raised more so for the guys at the bottom, 35 000 is just not right, at least raise it to 45 000 , still not great but a bit better.