View Poll Results: Which MLS expanse franchise has the best shot at success?

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  • New York City

    58 52.25%
  • Orlando

    33 29.73%
  • Miami

    17 15.32%
  • Atlanta

    3 2.70%
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  1. #1
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    Default Which MLS expansion franchise will be the most successful?

    There's been quite a bit of talk over the last few weeks regarding the future MLS expansion plans for New York, Orlando, Miami, and Atlanta; and I say it's time we have yet another completely speculative and unscientific poll on which of those four future clubs will see the most success - either on or off the pitch.

    New York City, New York
    Population: 19,949,502 (metro area)
    Franchisees: New York Yankees and Manchester City FC
    Nearest MLS competitor: New York Red Bulls

    Orlando, Florida
    Population: 2,223,674 (metro area)
    Franchisees: Flavio Augusto da Silva and Phil Rawlins (owner of Orlando City DC)
    Nearest MLS competitor: Miami

    Miami, Florida
    Population: 5,564,635 (metro area)
    Franchisees: David Beckham, Simon Fuller, Marcelo Claure
    Nearest MLS competitor: Orlando

    Atlanta, Georgia
    Population: 5,457,831 (metro area)
    Franchisee: Arthur Blank (owner of Atlanta Falcons)
    Nearest MLS competitor: Orlando
    Last edited by Cashcleaner; 04-16-2014 at 12:13 AM.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    New York, by far, because the league will bend over backwards to see it succeed. The southeast teams, far less so.
    TORONTO FC, 2017 MLS CHAMPIONS!!! (Still the greatest in league history!)

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    I'm troubled by the NYC, Miami and Atlanta roll outs. Contrast it to Orlando City, who spent years working towards it, has built up a base of supporters, has a stadium construction deal, etc. NYC won't flop in a commercial sense because of the backers and it is part of MCFC's long term player development scheme. But support wise, seeing 10K in Yankee Stadium is going be horrible. Miami and Atlanta are concoctions straight out of the MLS main office, their prospects are worse.

    The only hope is that there are enough best practices established now around the league that the new teams have something to aim at, but I'm not optimistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcoe15 View Post
    New York, by far, because the league will bend over backwards to see it succeed. The southeast teams, far less so.
    I'm not so sure. I think because MLS failed in the SE before, that they will do whatever they can to ensure one of those teams becomes 'top tier' in the league. I'd put my money on Miami being that team.

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    I'm guessing the lure of South Beach and David Beckham's connections will mean success for Miami. I think they'll be able to attract the right players for the market and thrive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadlocks View Post
    I'm guessing the lure of South Beach and David Beckham's connections will mean success for Miami. I think they'll be able to attract the right players for the market and thrive.
    Agreed. Though NY is also an incredible place to live, the idea of playing football for a living and spending your time off on beach will be too big a carrot for most. It's how LA managed it, and with flight times back to Europe only around 7 hours or so, many 'big' names for La Liga, the Premier League, Serie A etc will be atracted to Florida

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    Also the reduced fee to get the expansion franchise may mean they have some leeway in the coffers to make a 'TFC-esque' splash when they put that team together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashcleaner View Post

    Orlando, Florida
    Population: 2,223,674 (metro area)
    Franchisees: Phil Rawlins (owner of Orlando City DC)
    Nearest MLS competitor: Miami
    Don't forget Flavio Augusto da Silva

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    Short term, Orlando, long term, New York.

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    Orlando.

    There are long term issues for both Atlanta and Miami as far as ownership is concerned (Beckham will not be hands on for the next 20 years and the Atlanta guy is 71)

    The hubris of MCFC in running NYCFC would be my concern - they keep thinking they are getting stuff and then running into local issues.

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    Another one for Orlando.

    Have a decent level of support, stadium deal and shrewd ownership.

    Also like how they are trying to postion themselves as Brazils MLS team.

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    I'm excited to see what kind of DPs NYC signs. They've done a good job of hiring the right people to run the team. Starting off in Yankee Stadium is not ideal but a location in the city will make a world of difference. I don't think they'll have trouble attracting fans.

    Miami is another team that could get some top players, it's probably the most appealing American city to foreigners. But it all hinges on locking down their preferred stadium location, there are some big hurdles to cross there. I think a team there would work but they have a long way to go.

    Orlando seems poised for success, a huge plus for them is getting a brand new SSS in their first year. Could be anywhere from a Philly to Portland level of fan support there. How successful they'll be depends on how much cash their owners are willing to spend. If Kaka is really a done deal then that's a great start.

    Atlanta is the big question mark. Blank seems like a good owner, but they're going to be playing on turf in an NFL stadium. I have no clue if they can attract an MLS fanbase.

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    1 error, New York metro population is not 8.4 million, that is just the city population, metro is bigger.

    But anyways all these teams have some concern going into these new markets. Atlanta not planning to build a soccer stadium at all and instead plan to play in a massive NFL stadium is probably the biggest concern for me. Yes its a new stadium, but we have seen a lot of teams look really bad when playing in a NFL stadium. They probably won't sell record breaking tickets like Seattle, and while Vancouver seems to not look to bad playing at BC place by selling the lower half of the stadium it still doesn't mean people want to see more and more of these NFL/MLS kind of stadiums. Many people would like to see teams have Soccer specific stadium plans when joining the league. Atlanta also has shown some troubles selling tickets in different sport markets in this city of Atlanta, will soccer just be another one of them?

    Miami will they actually get this dream stadium built? Miami a very hard place to sell sport tickets.

    Orlando has probably had the most thought out plans for stadium, future players, exc. But is Orlando a big enough city to support a MLS team?

    New York, I think if they get a stadium built in New York City (not in New Jersey and not out in the burbs) then this could be huge, they will most likely sell tickets, it could be huge in a untapped market, a massive market at that. But the worry is actually getting a stadium built in the city. There is very little space, I know New York has plans and ideas where to build the stadium, but until shovels are in the ground this is no done deal. And they also talk about playing in Yankee stadium for the first 3 years (if there lucky 3 years) and I can say this brings back some bad memories of Kansas and DC United playing on Baseball fields. And there is a smaller issue but still none the less, will people who support Man United or Liverpool or whoever want to support a team with connections to Manchester City? could that effect enough people to not want to support this team?
    Last edited by james; 04-15-2014 at 06:14 PM.

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    Write in ballot:

    Toronto FC after Leiweke leaves
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    None.... I honestly have no faith in any of these franchises.

    Anyone or all could fold... which is really bad for MLS.

    MLS needed to wait 3-5 more years, to let NASL franchise grow and see if they could actually be supported.

    with NYC having no stadium plan legitimately suggest a lot of bad news. The Fact that the Red Bulls still struggle to get 20,000 out regularly suggests a half assed 3 season deal in Yankee stadium is not a good sign.

    Florida has already lost 2 franchises, and it is totally possible they will loose two more.

    Atlanta is a professional sports black hole.

    All 4 could fail and all four failing could kill the league, the press would have a field day with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    None.... I honestly have no faith in any of these franchises.

    Anyone or all could fold... which is really bad for MLS.

    MLS needed to wait 3-5 more years, to let NASL franchise grow and see if they could actually be supported.
    MLS doesn't want NASL to grow. They want to kill it and then offer the orphaned franchises a "deal" for a $5-10 million franchise fee to join MLS2, a Tier 2 feeder league to MLS that may, someday, allow their teams to be able to get promoted to MLS. If the NASL owners don't want to go along with it, you can bet their supporters will be howling for them to join just for the dream of playing in the big leagues. Any team that doesn't go along with it will be forced by the USSF to join USL Pro. Eventually at some point, then Promotion/relegation becomes possible becaue everyone will have bought into the MLS system. Basically you'll have North America's first and second divisions all under the single-entity system. They've already brought USL Pro into the fold as willing farm teams, so now only NASL lies outside their control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Initial B View Post
    MLS doesn't want NASL to grow. They want to kill it and then offer the orphaned franchises a "deal" for a $5-10 million franchise fee to join MLS2, a Tier 2 feeder league to MLS that may, someday, allow their teams to be able to get promoted to MLS. If the NASL owners don't want to go along with it, you can bet their supporters will be howling for them to join just for the dream of playing in the big leagues. Any team that doesn't go along with it will be forced by the USSF to join USL Pro. Eventually at some point, then Promotion/relegation becomes possible becaue everyone will have bought into the MLS system. Basically you'll have North America's first and second divisions all under the single-entity system. They've already brought USL Pro into the fold as willing farm teams, so now only NASL lies outside their control.
    This is conjecture and opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    None.... I honestly have no faith in any of these franchises.

    Anyone or all could fold... which is really bad for MLS.

    MLS needed to wait 3-5 more years, to let NASL franchise grow and see if they could actually be supported.

    with NYC having no stadium plan legitimately suggest a lot of bad news. The Fact that the Red Bulls still struggle to get 20,000 out regularly suggests a half assed 3 season deal in Yankee stadium is not a good sign.

    Florida has already lost 2 franchises, and it is totally possible they will loose two more.

    Atlanta is a professional sports black hole.

    All 4 could fail and all four failing could kill the league, the press would have a field day with it.
    I think a team in New Jersey where the Red Bulls play is not the same as playing in the very densely populated city of New York. New York playing in New York City has a much higher chance of selling much more tickets then in New Jersey. However I do agree playing in Yankee stadium is not a good thing. It could look ugly with the baseball diamond, and the fact the baseball stadium is in a different shape to what soccer field is like. Many seats will be very far away from the field and the views could be bad. Also playing in Yankee stadium many fans might not take this team serious. If they think the stadium will be built by say 2018, then why not let them join the league in 2018 or by the very least wait to shovels are in the ground? same goes for Miami? why the rush? is this stadiums going to actually built? and Atlanta I think should have to have a Soccer Stadium, I don't want to see any more teams playing in over-sized stadiums even if they hide the empty seats. Orlando might be the best new team with more planning behind it, but people still worry if Orlando is a good soccer place and is Orlando big enough?

    It seems a lot of people on this board and across MLS think the league is growing to fast now. Is MLS jumping the gun here? why do they need to have all these teams join in such a short time? Could they not wait 3-5 years for all these teams? They either are getting greedy and just want the money fast, or they seem to think that because all recent new teams have done well that they can just go to any city and it will all work out well with good attendance. They might be going over there heads a bit, and this might be trouble for the league further down the line if these teams don't get these stadiums built and if Atlanta can't support a team well in a big stadium!
    Last edited by james; 04-15-2014 at 10:08 PM.

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    Size of the town I'm not too worried about. Regina has 30-40k out a game for the Roughriders and the city has a metro Population of only 210,000. If the support is there the size isn't as important.

    If NYFC had a stadium in place close to the Island then they'd be find.. but remember Redbull Arena isn't that far from anywhere. From the Prospect park area of Brooklyn it's the same distance as Yankee stadium. It's actually closer and easier to get to from Downtown.

    The biggest issue with the Red Bulls is the "stigma" of Jersey.

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    whatever happened to the st louis bid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz View Post
    Size of the town I'm not too worried about. Regina has 30-40k out a game for the Roughriders and the city has a metro Population of only 210,000. If the support is there the size isn't as important.

    If NYFC had a stadium in place close to the Island then they'd be find.. but remember Redbull Arena isn't that far from anywhere. From the Prospect park area of Brooklyn it's the same distance as Yankee stadium. It's actually closer and easier to get to from Downtown.

    The biggest issue with the Red Bulls is the "stigma" of Jersey.
    Orlando City population is 249,562 in 265 km sq. land. In comparison Mississauga is 713,000 people in 290 km sq. It shows Orlando really is a sparsely built city and even more sparsely built metro areas. But that said Salt Lake is pretty small right? they seem to do alright, so maybe you are right. I guess its just hard to picture Soccer being a well supported sport in a small market in USA where traditionally Soccer may be played by many, but not really followed TV wise or attending games or having favourite teams.

    Ya and I did here Red Bull stadium is close to Manhatten. It really does make you wonder tho why people just won't travel to Jersey? but honestly look at New Jersey Nets, they move to Brooklyn and now there are a hot ticket. New York Islanders plan to move to Brooklyn in 2015 I believe. New York City is where its at, and many people want to stay in the City. Jersey must have some stigma. The New York Subway system is handy tho to, I know it does connect over to Jersey, but its not everywhere like it is in New York City. That probably helps a lot to, easy tansit on the subway system if its in the city.

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    The question that everyone should ask is, 'why are billionaires, who usually don't make stupid business decisions, decide to invest in MLS'. Usually, they know more than we do when it comes to making smart investments.

    Apparently there are 3 different billionaires bidding for Minneapolis MLS franchise.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExiledRed View Post
    whatever happened to the st louis bid?
    No money

    http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...o_ibisevic.php
    Last edited by ensco; 04-15-2014 at 11:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    so, not unviable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by prizby View Post
    Don't forget Flavio Augusto da Silva
    Thanks, Priz. Fixed!

    Quote Originally Posted by james View Post
    1 error, New York metro population is not 8.4 million, that is just the city population, metro is bigger.
    Thanks, James. Also fixed!

    Quote Originally Posted by ExiledRed View Post
    whatever happened to the st louis bid?
    Once the MLS starts putting a plan in place for a 30-league team (and I certainly wouldn't put it past them), I think both St. Louis and Minneapolis will be two candidate cities Garber would be the most interested in expanding to next.
    Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.

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    I'm in the same boat with the people who are worried in varying degrees for each team.

    Orlando: I think this team is the most likely to succeed, to be honest, since they're the only ones that will have an active fan base when they enter the league. They are also the only ones who'll be playing in a stadium that fits their expected capacity early on. The owner also seems to have enough connections and gravitas to be able to get some reasonably big name players to come over if that's their plan. all in all, I'd say Orlando looks to be in good hands, despite the obstacle that is being in Orlando.

    ATL, Miami and NYC all look like huge wildcards though. Atlanta could work; for all intents and purposes they seem to have an owner that's very committed to building a stable and financially viable franchise. playing in the Falcons new stadium is going to be a huge issue if they can't figure out how to zone areas of it off properly. Though, the stadium looks honest to god like one of the best I've seen, and, the way it's structured, I could see it working if executed properly. but, like other's have mentioned, It's Atlanta. they support their sports teams like a noose supports a hanged man.

    Miami and New York are in the same boat to me. Neither of them are going to have stadiums ready for their opening season, and we now know that New York won't have one for at least their first three, which is incredibly worrisome considering how fucking god awful Yankee Stadium is for watching soccer. The sight lines are about as bad as you could imagine. It just was not at all designed for any sport other than baseball. Where Miami are going to play their first season I'm not sure but there aren't a lot of good options out there for them either. It's all nice and grand to put out these extravagant stadium designs and promise MLS how great it's all going to look but It's not going to mean much if they end up getting pushed back and pushed back, at which point I fear they won;t have a chance to see the building of the stadiums through.

    Both teams might very well buy and market themselves to relevancy for their first few years which might give them a bit of leeway, But nobody is going to treat those two like small town Portland or RSL when they entered the league. You can most certainly gaurentee that people are going to notice all of those empty seats and that's not good for anybody.

    the big thing is going to be execution. if they all do it right, this could be huge, even redefining for the league. But it could just as easily end up going the other way. Not necessarily crippling the league, but If these Franchises fail it would put a massive dent in the upward trajectory and push for relevancy that MLS as a whole has been fighting for since It's inception.

    Tread lightly, Garber.
    Last edited by molenshtain; 04-16-2014 at 06:42 AM.

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    Also, not that I mean to at all interject my own politics into this, but can we 1) stop calling New York Energy Drink by their "official" name? they're a walking advertisement for a fucking beverage. Let's not dignify them by calling them what they want us to call them. And 2) how are we exactly going to deal with City's owners? I'm sure teams such as Portland, Chicago, Philly, The Whitecaps etc. who are all very vocally pro LGBT and generally in favour of Humans being nice to other humans, are going to have a very, very, serious issue playing against a team whose owners seemingly enjoy committing Human Rights Violations. I'm just saying, it's some stuff to think about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    Also, not that I mean to at all interject my own politics into this, but can we 1) stop calling New York Energy Drink by their "official" name? they're a walking advertisement for a fucking beverage. Let's not dignify them by calling them what they want us to call them
    1) I'd be thrilled to call them the Metrostars again.
    2) How about something other than BMO Field, while we are at it? I'd call it Miller Field, after the person who is most responsible for this city having a team today.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    Also, not that I mean to at all interject my own politics into this, but can we 1) stop calling New York Energy Drink by their "official" name? they're a walking advertisement for a fucking beverage. Let's not dignify them by calling them what they want us to call them. And 2) how are we exactly going to deal with City's owners? I'm sure teams such as Portland, Chicago, Philly, The Whitecaps etc. who are all very vocally pro LGBT and generally in favour of Humans being nice to other humans, are going to have a very, very, serious issue playing against a team whose owners seemingly enjoy committing Human Rights Violations. I'm just saying, it's some stuff to think about.
    1) A sponsored team name is really not that different from a sponsored stadium or jersey. We are well past the tipping point in that regard. Red Bull's investment is responsible for that gorgeous stadium and Thierry Henry in MLS. As long as it's a net positive I'm sure even the most die hard MetroStars fans are okay with it.

    2) Depends on how strictly they boycott countries that commit human rights violations. I doubt NYCFC will pose much of an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by molenshtain View Post
    Also, not that I mean to at all interject my own politics into this, but can we 1) stop calling New York Energy Drink by their "official" name? they're a walking advertisement for a fucking beverage. Let's not dignify them by calling them what they want us to call them. And 2) how are we exactly going to deal with City's owners? I'm sure teams such as Portland, Chicago, Philly, The Whitecaps etc. who are all very vocally pro LGBT and generally in favour of Humans being nice to other humans, are going to have a very, very, serious issue playing against a team whose owners seemingly enjoy committing Human Rights Violations. I'm just saying, it's some stuff to think about.
    I know I'd prefer the name Metrostars over Red Bulls.

    As for Al Mubarak and ADUG,I have my doubt there's going to be any serious backlash against them from any other clubs of fans in the league. Nobody seems to be bringing up the massive numbers of worker deaths building facilities for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar. I think there are some matters people choose to overlook, but I applaud you for bringing it up molenshtain.
    Last edited by Cashcleaner; 04-17-2014 at 01:03 AM.
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