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  1. #31
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    https://twitter.com/tombogert/status...90540410023937

    When Twellmann says something, I have my doubts. When Tom Bogert backs up Twellmann's claim, maybe there was something
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohan View Post
    https://twitter.com/tombogert/status...90540410023937

    When Twellmann says something, I have my doubts. When Tom Bogert backs up Twellmann's claim, maybe there was something
    Neither is an independent, unbiased journalist; they're both paid by the league. Bogert writes pretty much exclusively for for mlssoccer.com, and he does a good job, doubtless, of getting confirms etc.

    But it's a league vessel; he runs with what they allow in the first place. It's a quid pro quo arrangement, so if they want the message out there that KC was a serious player, that's what he'll run. That's how that sort of job works. For many years, in numerous countries, writing "advertorial" stories could get you blacklisted from a newsroom.

    Twellman is paid as a commentator by both ESPN and the league. Again, if the league gives him something, he'll run it with "sources tell me."

    Neither is a reliable source for something like this, because neither will take any independent steps to verify the information the league gives them. That's the unfortunate nature of quid-pro-quo reporting.

  3. #33
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    I think sometimes you you have to use a grey cell or two and figure some things out on your own.

    Insigne broke by a wide margin the MLS salary record, and plays for a bigger club … and he makes less than 10% of what CR got in Saudi. What is the biggest salary SKC have ever paid, $4M? So I am supposed to believe it when someone says with a straight face that SKC offered someone 10x or 50x that?

    Also, jloome is being nice. This is Pravda telling you about Putin’s magnificent performance in Ukraine. I feel sorry for Twellman and Bogert and whoever else they are using to run this story.

    Let's now watch and see what SKC does with the money “earmarked for Ronaldo”. This should be amusing.

    I wouldn’t be happy as an SKC fan. I would feel I was being taken for an idiot.
    Last edited by ensco; 12-31-2022 at 08:05 PM.

  4. #34
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    To everyone who thought Ronaldo would be playing in Kansas.

    KANSAS FOR F**k SAKE.


  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Neither is an independent, unbiased journalist; they're both paid by the league. Bogert writes pretty much exclusively for for mlssoccer.com, and he does a good job, doubtless, of getting confirms etc.

    But it's a league vessel; he runs with what they allow in the first place. It's a quid pro quo arrangement, so if they want the message out there that KC was a serious player, that's what he'll run. That's how that sort of job works. For many years, in numerous countries, writing "advertorial" stories could get you blacklisted from a newsroom.

    Twellman is paid as a commentator by both ESPN and the league. Again, if the league gives him something, he'll run it with "sources tell me."

    Neither is a reliable source for something like this, because neither will take any independent steps to verify the information the league gives them. That's the unfortunate nature of quid-pro-quo reporting.
    Twellman isn't overly reliable, I would argue that Bogert is the most "in the know" reporter covering MLS though.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeForbes View Post
    Twellman isn't overly reliable, I would argue that Bogert is the most "in the know" reporter covering MLS though.
    I would hope so. Given that he writes about half the news stories on mlssoccer.com, he likely has unimpeded access to comments and tips from every team. You'll notice he never breaks a big story more than 24 hours before the official announcement, however. None of them are leaks from sources; they're all handed to him with the team knowing when he's going to run it and what he's going to run.

  7. #37
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    https://twitter.com/HNS_CFF/status/1...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    Have said it over and over we need to bring Croatians here. Look for more of this in the future from other teams. This will be an Alimiron situation, the kid is betting on himself.

    Petkovic, the striker who scored the tying goal vs brazil, would be a great signing here, has all the tools.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    https://twitter.com/HNS_CFF/status/1...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    Have said it over and over we need to bring Croatians here. Look for more of this in the future from other teams. This will be an Alimiron situation, the kid is betting on himself.

    Petkovic, the striker who scored the tying goal vs brazil, would be a great signing here, has all the tools.
    I don’t know where it went, but Croatia's 55 man squad was stunning to me. The depth and quality there was on par with anyone in the world. We should absolutely be looking at the young guys knocking on the door there. The Argentine or Brazilian equivalent younger players would require 10-20M transfers and would probably be unobtainable anyway, but this small country's “football factory”, producing similar players, is beyond belief.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don’t know where it went, but Croatia's 55 man squad was stunning to me. The depth and quality there was on par with anyone in the world. We should absolutely be looking at the young guys knocking on the door there. The Argentine or Brazilian equivalent younger players would require 10-20M transfers and would probably be unobtainable anyway, but this small country's “football factory”, producing similar players, is beyond belief.
    Fully agreed. Lots of talent. Even in the quarter final win over Brazil, the keeper Livakovic was from dinamo zagreb, the assist and goal came from dinamo zagreb's Orsic to Petkovic. Even one of the goal scorer's vs Canada Livaja is from the Cro league and hajduk split.

    And the Toronto market has Croatian history in Metros Croatia...but we don't seem to want to buy Croatian...instead we look to overpriced and very underwhelming Venezuelans for example, or Americans. Manning and BB have zero connections to Croatia so I expect we won't look there...but am not suprised, we can't even scout our own backyard well as guys from here end up in places like Montreal and come back to haunt us.

    Lots of bang for our buck if we look to the Croatian league...many gems there at a fraction of the cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I don’t know where it went, but Croatia's 55 man squad was stunning to me. The depth and quality there was on par with anyone in the world. We should absolutely be looking at the young guys knocking on the door there. The Argentine or Brazilian equivalent younger players would require 10-20M transfers and would probably be unobtainable anyway, but this small country's “football factory”, producing similar players, is beyond belief.
    I fully agree. And without attempting to offend anyone, I will say the broader region’s ability to produce world class athletes from such a small population base is unreal. Yugoslavia‘s dominance at basketball in the 80’s comes to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    I fully agree. And without attempting to offend anyone, I will say the broader region’s ability to produce world class athletes from such a small population base is unreal. Yugoslavia‘s dominance at basketball in the 80’s comes to mind.
    Croatia's silver in 92 to the Dream Team was amazing (in the midst of war no less). Drazen (rest in peace legend) Petrovic paved the way for the euro guys dominating now in particular from Serbia, Slovenia (Doncic), though Cro has underperformed in basketball for some reason....football though, dominant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    https://twitter.com/HNS_CFF/status/1...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

    Have said it over and over we need to bring Croatians here. Look for more of this in the future from other teams. This will be an Alimiron situation, the kid is betting on himself.

    Petkovic, the striker who scored the tying goal vs brazil, would be a great signing here, has all the tools.
    In general I agree with your sentiment however in the case of Biuk he has not been able to get regular playing time with Hajduk, who it seems have given up on him. This signing is a gamble that I am not sure I would take.

    In terms of Petkovic I think he would be a good fit however I looked up his salary and he makes just under a million USD at Dinamo so he would need to be a TAM signing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    In general I agree with your sentiment however in the case of Biuk he has not been able to get regular playing time with Hajduk, who it seems have given up on him. This signing is a gamble that I am not sure I would take.

    In terms of Petkovic I think he would be a good fit however I looked up his salary and he makes just under a million USD at Dinamo so he would need to be a TAM signing.
    Biuk might have went for the money and he is either going to make it or turn into a Halilovic and a bust. Might have taken the money and ran for it...short term gain but a long term career ender.

    Petkovic would be excellent here. Strong in the air, hold up play, skilled...but yeah, makes a lot at dinamo, they play CL footie...and he is playing on the NT...he comes here, and its the end of his NT career no doubt...I doubt Dalic looks here...(especially after Herdman's "eff Croatia" comments...lol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Croatia's silver in 92 to the Dream Team was amazing (in the midst of war no less). Drazen (rest in peace legend) Petrovic paved the way for the euro guys dominating now in particular from Serbia, Slovenia (Doncic), though Cro has underperformed in basketball for some reason....football though, dominant.
    This is truly an offseason digression ... Drazen Petrovic does not get his due. I lived in NY during his prime, saw a lot of him. No player was shooting the three for real, as the primary weapon, until him: not Jordan, not Bird, not Reggie Miller.

    Petro was a big big part of creating the game that is the modern NBA. I still remember where I was when I heard the news about his death.

    Mostly for this reason, I would be thrilled to see a "Petrovic" at TFC!! But cannot imagine anybody on the WC roster coming to Canada after what happened with Herdman - that was a much bigger story there than here. I think we need to look at the guys who just missed making the 55 man squad, I bet that is where the good fishing is.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hala Hrvatska View Post
    Biuk might have went for the money and he is either going to make it or turn into a Halilovic and a bust. Might have taken the money and ran for it...short term gain but a long term career ender.

    Petkovic would be excellent here. Strong in the air, hold up play, skilled...but yeah, makes a lot at dinamo, they play CL footie...and he is playing on the NT...he comes here, and its the end of his NT career no doubt...I doubt Dalic looks here...(especially after Herdman's "eff Croatia" comments...lol).
    One thing no one talks about on this forum is the role living in Toronto has on player signings, and in my view is a detriment in attracting talent.

    Toronto has a cold climate, high taxes, and is incredibly expensive. A player like Petkovic can live like a king on a $1MM USD in Croatia. So to even attract players at his level you would need to pay upper TAM or lower end DP salaries. However he is not a name talent so he wouldn't sell tickets like the two Italians. This I believe is why TFC has such difficulty in bringing in foreign players.

    We see this all the time with the Raptors and Jays. The only way Toronto teams can attract free agents is to overpay.

  16. #46
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    Toronto is more expensive then LA or New York?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Toronto is more expensive then LA or New York?
    LA offers year round sunshine, and NYC has a milder climate. Both are global cities that have a certain cache. Toronto is not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    LA offers year round sunshine, and NYC has a milder climate. Both are global cities that have a certain cache. Toronto is not.
    OK, I get that bit....we are also not Miami.

    &

    Where would people rather raise a kid? (also a certain cachet)

    Point is, there are things about Toronto that are attractive to a certain type of person in a certain family situation who is making a certain amount of income.

    I get why a 21 year old out of US college Bball wouldn't want to come here.

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    There's no evidence that we struggle to attract talent any more than any other team in MLS and plenty of evidence of the opposite

    And if cold is a deal breaker for you than you aren't signing for new York or a good chunk of any teams in the league

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    There's no evidence that we struggle to attract talent any more than any other team in MLS and plenty of evidence of the opposite

    And if cold is a deal breaker for you than you aren't signing for new York or a good chunk of any teams in the league
    Then why do we constantly have to overpay to sign players? Toronto is not a selling point the way LA or NYC is. Just look at the Raptors. The team has never been able to attract an elite player despite having a reputation of treating players well.

    In order for TFC to be a consistent winning team they will need to focus on developing their own home grown Canadian talent to form the base of their roster. Local guys from Southern Ontario will want to play here, close to family and friends. In this area the club has not done well.
    Last edited by NK Toronto; 01-01-2023 at 05:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    Then why do we constantly have to overpay to sign players? Toronto is not a selling point the way LA or NYC is. Just look at the Raptors. The team has never been able to attract an elite player despite having a reputation of treating players well.

    In order for TFC to be a consistent winning team they will need to focus on developing their own home grown Canadian talent to form the base of their roster. Local guys from Southern Ontario will want to play here, close to family and friends. In this area the club has not done well.
    We don't need to overpay to sign talent. The successful years were build on a backbone of low cap hit high quality players which gave us more depth than any team in the league had ever had at that point. Not many teams get a Vasquez level talent without a dp slot. Or could field a defence like morrow, beitashore, mavinga, moor and still have quality up and down the field and on the bench. What you're saying just doesn't hold up for Tfc.

    We simply do not struggle to attract or retain talent. Few to no teams in the league seen more consistent at attracting talent than we are. We are horrifically mismanaged and our cap management has been, bar a few years, awful but it's just provably untrue that attracting talent is an issue

    No offense to the places, but this is a sport where the elite talent in the globe line up to move to Manchester and Liverpool. The quality of life in Toronto is not losing us any talent.
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 01-01-2023 at 06:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    The quality of life in Toronto is not losing us any talent.
    I agree with this.

    I also agree with the opposite, the city doesn’t attract people who don’t have a connection to it (and I think this is a surprise to many Torontonians).
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree with this.

    I also agree with the opposite, the city doesn’t attract people who don’t have a connection to it (and I think this is a surprise to many Torontonians).
    So.... it seems KC really did make a play for Cristiano Ronaldo. But if you read the details, it's so laughably naïve it's astonishing they're willing to admit it publicly.

    Basically, they were working a) on an assumption he's getting $75M a year from the Saudis, which is much lower than I've heard elsewhere, and;
    b) that they could offer him a deal where nearly all the value came from non-waged based commercial holdings. In other words, they were going to throw properties, sponsorships, ownership stakes in other firms etc.

    The guaranteed cash would've made him "the best-paid player in the league" over Lorenzo Insigne, it says. But the mere fact that they're even comparing the annual money suggests the actual cash value of this was probably nowhere near what the Saudis offered. Also, it appears every one of Ronaldo's "advisers" was involved in the discussion, but never the player himself.

    https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...270632212.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    I agree with this.

    I also agree with the opposite, the city doesn’t attract people who don’t like have a connection to it (and I think this is a surprise to many Torontonians).
    Is the reality we don’t want to admit simply what we’re simply a much safer Chicago? Which is to say, a nice city that has charm but not really world class. Like you’d visit and people would say good things but if you missed it, you wouldn’t particularly dwell on it.

    Shame, because if we actually planned properly though the boom years of the last decade we’d probably actually be reaching for a true world class level. So much money flowed into the city for real estate investment it would have only taken a meaningless sliver of that (and some slightly better building standards / community development plans) to really put a mark on this place. But short termism rules the day, regrettably.
    Last edited by ag futbol; 01-01-2023 at 10:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    So.... it seems KC really did make a play for Cristiano Ronaldo. But if you read the details, it's so laughably naïve it's astonishing they're willing to admit it publicly.

    Basically, they were working a) on an assumption he's getting $75M a year from the Saudis, which is much lower than I've heard elsewhere, and;
    b) that they could offer him a deal where nearly all the value came from non-waged based commercial holdings. In other words, they were going to throw properties, sponsorships, ownership stakes in other firms etc.

    The guaranteed cash would've made him "the best-paid player in the league" over Lorenzo Insigne, it says. But the mere fact that they're even comparing the annual money suggests the actual cash value of this was probably nowhere near what the Saudis offered. Also, it appears every one of Ronaldo's "advisers" was involved in the discussion, but never the player himself.

    https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...270632212.html
    Nothing short of the following two items would have moved the needle with Ronaldo.


    • Given a franchise license at 50% or more discount at current market value. Vegas still available?
    • Play for an LA team

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    So.... it seems KC really did make a play for Cristiano Ronaldo. But if you read the details, it's so laughably naïve it's astonishing they're willing to admit it publicly.

    Basically, they were working a) on an assumption he's getting $75M a year from the Saudis, which is much lower than I've heard elsewhere, and;
    b) that they could offer him a deal where nearly all the value came from non-waged based commercial holdings. In other words, they were going to throw properties, sponsorships, ownership stakes in other firms etc.

    The guaranteed cash would've made him "the best-paid player in the league" over Lorenzo Insigne, it says. But the mere fact that they're even comparing the annual money suggests the actual cash value of this was probably nowhere near what the Saudis offered. Also, it appears every one of Ronaldo's "advisers" was involved in the discussion, but never the player himself.

    https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...270632212.html
    OK this is becoming completely #$&@ing absurd. Can these reporters not do math? How can they let Vermes get away with this crap?

    Whatever it is that MLS and SKC are trying to do here - some of us didn’t just fall off the turnip truck.

    The idea that some zoom calls means anything, let alone that they were “very close”, is absolutely nuts.

    We all know MLS economics and we all know that what Insigne got was pretty crazy based on league economics. We also all know that Ronaldo got 15x what Insigne got.

    We don’t need a PhD to know how “close” they were, whatever they may think or may be saying. It ain’t what they are saying.

    The interesting question is, why are they doing this? I suspect the audience may be Apple, who may have been told a load of horse manure about how players like CR were likely to consider MLS.
    Last edited by ensco; 01-02-2023 at 01:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK Toronto View Post
    LA offers year round sunshine, and NYC has a milder climate. Both are global cities that have a certain cache. Toronto is not.
    Miami is where I'd be in any sport if I was a star and had choices. No state inc tax, great weather and lifestyle.

    We can win here but a big problem is how badly we are mismanaged.

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    The SKC report lost credibility for me the second they said it was close. Unless I've been totally mislead ever since following MLS, literally every salary rule/mechanism in the league was designed to prevent these exact types of deals. There is no chance that SKC were able to offer anything in the ballpark of the Saudis when considering pure salary and no sponsorships etc.

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    I think for the right player (Not Ronaldo now, his brand is worth 10% of what it was a year ago. Say maybe Messi now, or if they somehow had a chance at an Mbappe in their prime) MLS could pony up something in the ball park of cash equivalence to what we're seeing Ronaldo get. There's precedence with this, with Beckham getting a huge stake in an MLS franchise comped - that alone could be worth close to what the Saudis are paying Ronaldo right now in real $ value. I think if they could sign Messi right now they'd be willing to give some extraordinary things in return and his net worth may rise by close to what Ronaldos will in Saudi even if it's not in cash.

    What has absolute 0.0% chance of being true is that SKC were ever where he was going. MLS will only going to do that for a giant market team, basically only New York or LA. They need to be somewhere where they can seriously move the needle where the built in audience for stadium and especially now, Apple TV subscribers, is astronomical and there's only really two places that are big enough and Kansas sure as shit isn't one of them.

    What I could believe is SKC kicked some tires to see if they could possibly broker a deal with a goal of getting something for their discovery rights from an NY or LA team, but post Piers Morgan interview/being sacked by his club/being dropped by his country and not to mention the allegations against him? His stock has dropped. No way MLS would come close to what he got. No way at all.

    The only slightly interest thing for future signings is, the Apple TV subscription is available worldwide, right? If so it does open the MLS TV revenue stream into a much larger potential market. One signing doesn't change that, but that *could* be used to justify some pretty big $$ spending at some stage if they think they can get people outside US/Canada watching, especially running summer not against any big European leagues. It's unlikely to generate much in the short term but does add some interesting lines of thought when it comes to the long term economics of the league and perhaps some tolerance for some high risk, high reward long shot moves from a usually conservative league
    Last edited by JoesphNdo; 01-02-2023 at 10:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The interesting question is, why are they doing this? I suspect the audience may be Apple, who may have been told a load of horse manure about how players like CR were likely to consider MLS.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoesphNdo View Post
    The only slightly interest thing for future signings is, the Apple TV subscription is available worldwide, right? If so it does open the MLS TV revenue stream into a much larger potential market.
    Yeah, perhaps they were using him and Messi as examples of guys kicking the tires. "We were just talking to CR's people last week!" Meanwhile, Illich, the KC owner, is probably as disconnected from the day to day as most owners and was believing his own financial hype.

    Then he leaks that they "took a serious shot at this" without probably even knowing the details and they have to justify it to a local print reporter.

    Vermes is probably cringing every time this is raised.

 

 

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