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  1. #91
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    LOL, even after that game, TFC is still in a playoff spot.

  2. #92
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    What's going on at TFC? Vanney talked so much about wing play over the last year and a half, but we rarely have any wing play. We have DeLeon in the team, but Vanney chooses to play him more centrally. His selections and formations make little sense. Our team plays with fear, relying on star players to bail us out constantly. Any new player who's come in started off well but got worse as time passed. There's no leader in the team, and the club is distancing itself from fans and SSHs in particular.

    We're winless in 8 now. We as fans need to ask questions about TFC. We need to speak up on Wednesday and show them that we're not happy with this. I'd be okay if we're struggling yet playing to win and trying our best (see Vancouver, SKC, and Portland). This, however, is as bad as, if not worse, than New England led by Friedel. This truly is unacceptable.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post


    This has 3-1 loss all over it.

    You were too optimistic!

    I'm concerned that this team is so used to losing that even if they bring in a few more players they're just going to continue. That's especially so because thanks to the USMNT we have an injured Jozy again.

  4. #94
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    I should have just watched Evangelion for the 10th time, only this time on Netflix.

    Really not much good to say except that Westberg really stood on his head and made sure to hold Dallas to a respectable, single-digit scoreline.

  5. #95
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    Positives from tonight

    Best TFC keeper game ever (name me one better please - I'd be interested)
    Shafflememes can run wide
    Pozuelo just needs 2 chances per game (& he gets them) to put the ball on a platter for the rest of the team
    Morrow & DeLeon keep plugging away
    Both Bradley & Alitdore got out of their game unscathed & played well for their time on


    Negatives


    Moor & Ciman haring up top with no cover from their mids
    Fraser & Chapman lollygagging back & giving up on plays
    Laryea not moving the ball forward like he did just a couple of months ago (but he's not the answer at RB)
    Boyd puts himself about but its aimless & goes nowhere - he is not good enough
    We have no systemic mindset to defend
    We have no systemic mindset to attack
    Delgado has somehow manged to regress from last year

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    TFC isn't make much money, if at all. They would like to win; they don't know how.
    Well firstly get rid of the management or we need to wake them up out of their complacency, MLSE is a fairly profitable company especially with the biggest Telecomm companies being a part of them, i dont buy TFC doesnt make much money compared to other teams in the league we have a lot of value

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    .. That's especially so because thanks to the USMNT we have an injured Jozy again.
    Jozy played tonight for 11 minutes in a rout - he is expected to start the next game by journos but Berhalter loves Zardes so who knows.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    And that's the kind of day it's been.
    2015-2017 was an anomaly for TFC. We are officially back to 2007-2014. Thanks, MLSE.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    Vanney is starting to be under pressure. Poor performance by key players and poor use of them. Just poor.
    Pressure by whom? This board and Twitter? Everyone in management knows he's trying to play poker with a pair of deuces in his hand and no chance of winning. What other players would any other coach play? What other formation? Let's face it, once you subtract Jozy, Bradley and Osorio this team is only marginally better than Preki's eastern European cast offs.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Positives from tonight

    Best TFC keeper game ever (name me one better please - I'd be interested)
    Shafflememes can run wide
    Pozuelo just needs 2 chances per game (& he gets them) to put the ball on a platter for the rest of the team
    Morrow & DeLeon keep plugging away
    Both Bradley & Alitdore got out of their game unscathed & played well for their time on


    Negatives


    Moor & Ciman haring up top with no cover from their mids
    Fraser & Chapman lollygagging back & giving up on plays
    Laryea not moving the ball forward like he did just a couple of months ago (but he's not the answer at RB)
    Boyd puts himself about but its aimless & goes nowhere - he is not good enough
    We have no systemic mindset to defend
    We have no systemic mindset to attack
    Delgado has somehow manged to regress from last year
    Agree with everything except Morrow. Fell asleep on the first goal & kept the goal scorer onside. Still a shadow of his former self on passes and crosses. He used to actually score for us!

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Pressure by whom? This board and Twitter? Everyone in management knows he's trying to play poker with a pair of deuces in his hand and no chance of winning. What other players would any other coach play? What other formation? Let's face it, once you subtract Jozy, Bradley and Osorio this team is only marginally better than Preki's eastern European cast offs.
    I think it's management AND lack of players AND Vanney. I agree he's been dealt an awful hand, but no need for the team to play THAT badly. He's letting his defenders play undisciplined. He's letting his midfielders get away with not defending enough. (Why didn't they at least try to bunker in that game?) He's putting Terrence Boyd alone up front for 82 minutes, with two other strikers on the bench (which would be slightly more OK if they had at least been parking the bus in back during that time).
    Last edited by Auzzy; 06-22-2019 at 09:31 PM.

  12. #102
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    After that game, to cheer up with some quality footy, watch the Norway - Australia WWC replay on TSN 2 right now.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Pressure by whom? This board and Twitter? Everyone in management knows he's trying to play poker with a pair of deuces in his hand and no chance of winning. What other players would any other coach play? What other formation? Let's face it, once you subtract Jozy, Bradley and Osorio this team is only marginally better than Preki's eastern European cast offs.
    Vanney's team setup, tactics, and decisions are handicapping these players. After spending several years with them, he should know about their strengths and weaknesses, yet it seems like he and the coaching staff have suddenly stopped playing the players to their strengths. If Brian Schmetzer can get a relatively poor 2016 Sounders team to win the MLS Cup, Vanney has no excuses.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    He's letting his defenders play undisciplined.
    So let's say he benches a couple of them for not following his direction? That is how a coach disciplines players. Who does he replace them with? There's literally no competition for places with two defenders out.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracos View Post
    If we are cheering on a losing team, and management is still profiting financially, TFC dont care about the onfield product and we support a complacent team
    We cheered on the club to get their shit in order... and they did. Our track history refutes any such complacency.

    Chin up. It's hardly the My Lai Massacre.

    Not every season is going to be a walk in the park.
    Last edited by Brooker; 06-22-2019 at 09:40 PM.

  16. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    So let's say he benches a couple of them for not following his direction? That is how a coach disciplines players. Who does he replace them with? There's literally no competition for places with two defenders out.
    I have no idea what Vanney is actually telling his defenders to do. He often continues to field players after they've messed up repeatedly, even when other options are available. I.e. he doesn't exert discipline even when he has that option. In any case, motivation would be better than discipline. And today, at least he could have brought Dunn along to have a defensive option on the bench.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I think it's management AND lack of players AND Vanney. I agree he's been dealt an awful hand, but no need for the team to play THAT badly. He's letting his defenders play undisciplined. He's letting his midfielders get away with not defending enough. (Why didn't they at least try to bunker in that game?) He's putting Terrence Boyd alone up front for 82 minutes, with two other strikers on the bench (which would be slightly more OK if they had at least been parking the bus in back during that time).
    Take all the weird choices with the change in management and the team looking so unmotivated and this all reeks of internal turmoil. Vanney has clearly either lost the room or has them convinced the lack of roster support is an excuse for this.

    We played entitled last year, too. We need a Fergie now, a Tata, an Arena, even. Someone who takes no shit and knows how to win.

    Our defense is an aging shambles, our midfield is mediocre and uninspired and why we keep starting Boyd, who shows no clue that he can play anything other than dump-and-chase...

    I dunno. I think they've put this down to 'blood the kids a lot' and don't worry about results, because they want us to become like NYRB and Dallas, and produce a lot of players from within. That's Curtis' MO from NY, and if it's politically at odds with Vanney's preferred approach -- i.e. he doesn't think they stand a chance -- perhaps to some degree he's throwing away games to take the heat off them, to put the blame on himself for when Curtis eventually goes to management and says 'something has to change.' It's hard to blame the players when they're set up to lose game after game. He can't in a million years have thought that was our most competitive lineup option.

  18. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omar View Post
    Vanney's team setup, tactics, and decisions are handicapping these players. After spending several years with them, he should know about their strengths and weaknesses, yet it seems like he and the coaching staff have suddenly stopped playing the players to their strengths. If Brian Schmetzer can get a relatively poor 2016 Sounders team to win the MLS Cup, Vanney has no excuses.
    Easy to say without specifying what changes need to be made. I don't believe that any change in formation would miraculously turn things around.

    Of course we could always hire back Preki with his 10 men behind the ball approach and lose 1-0 instead of 3-0. :-)

    Btw, no way a Tata or an Arena would agree to be under Curtis and subject to his whims.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Pressure by whom? This board and Twitter? Everyone in management knows he's trying to play poker with a pair of deuces in his hand and no chance of winning. What other players would any other coach play? What other formation? Let's face it, once you subtract Jozy, Bradley and Osorio this team is only marginally better than Preki's eastern European cast offs.
    That’s interesting because what management specifically said before we started this run was they were confident with the group we have.

    I don’t think it’s crazy to say that a team that has gone winless for 8 games has a coach that may be under a bit of pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Easy to say without specifying what changes need to be made. I don't believe that any change in formation would miraculously turn things around.

    Of course we could always hire back Preki with his 10 men behind the ball approach and lose 1-0 instead of 3-0. :-)

    Btw, no way a Tata or an Arena would agree to be under Curtis and subject to his whims.
    I have never been a VanneyOut person, but I am starting to think that it might be time for a change at coach. Exhibit number 1 is that he keeps playing Terrence Boyd. I don't think he has had a good scoring opportunity any game so far, except the penalty in the CCL, which he missed. He cost us a goal tonight with poor defending, so what exactly is his contribution to the team? Jordan Hamilton at least has 4 goals. Please play him instead of Boyd, who is the second coming of Ben Spencer. Exhibit number 2 is Vanney on the sideline gesticulating at his players to play forward, but them not doing it, constantly recycling the ball back. If the players aren't listening to the coach, then what value does he add. I would prefer to see TFC moving forward and giving up more on the transition, than the incredibly boring and ineffective soccer they are playing now. Not having good enough players is not an excuse--if Vanney was an effective coach but with weak players, then they would be playing the style he wants to see, though potentially poorly. Instead we get a style of play that Vanney keeps saying isn't the style he wants. How does he let them play like that?

    I PVRed the game and fast forwarded through the last 25 minutes. It was too painful to watch.

  21. #111
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    with this lineup tonight they wouldnt beat a usl/cpl team

  22. #112
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    Man I loved 2017 but based on that season we really screwed ourselves that off season with so many decisions that continue to hamper this team.


    I can name 3 players on that team who have gotten demonstrably better since - Jozy, Osorio & Chapman. That just isn't good enough.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Pressure by whom? This board and Twitter? Everyone in management knows he's trying to play poker with a pair of deuces in his hand and no chance of winning. What other players would any other coach play? What other formation? Let's face it, once you subtract Jozy, Bradley and Osorio this team is only marginally better than Preki's eastern European cast offs.
    Himself. Robin Fraser. Manning and Curtis. Players, particularly good ones. some fans. But the first and fourth ones are the most important
    Last edited by MightyDM; 06-23-2019 at 11:07 AM.

  24. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Man I loved 2017 but based on that season we really screwed ourselves that off season with so many decisions that continue to hamper this team.


    I can name 3 players on that team who have gotten demonstrably better since - Jozy, Osorio & Chapman. That just isn't good enough.
    we also managed with an arrogance in 2018 that permeated the club - someone used "entitled" earlier - that fits.

    Bad decisions -Beita, Raheem (possible excusable)
    Players who peaked in 2017 - Zavs; Bono; Morrow; Marky; Moor; possibly Bradley; VV and Seba

  25. #115
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    and another thing...those that get offended when other “big four” sports fans...really MLS is bush league. What other major sport would allow it’s best players to bugger off and keep on playing. Not the NHL... sorry Kawai and Lowry can’t make it tonight they are playing somewhere else. FFS. This league has to get this shit sorted out. There is no reason the Gold Cup can’t be played in the Winter. Word Cup and the Euros are in the off season.

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    That’s interesting because what management specifically said before we started this run was they were confident with the group we have.
    I think that "group" included a fit Jozy, Mavinga, Bradley, and Osorio. That has little relationship to who played tonight.

    As I've said before, they will evaluate Vanney based on what they think he can do in 2020, not with this transitional group. If they think he won't be able to work with that team he'll be gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton_Red View Post
    and another thing...those that get offended when other “big four” sports fans...really MLS is bush league. What other major sport would allow it’s best players to bugger off and keep on playing. Not the NHL... sorry Kawai and Lowry can’t make it tonight they are playing somewhere else. FFS. This league has to get this shit sorted out. There is no reason the Gold Cup can’t be played in the Winter. Word Cup and the Euros are in the off season.

    Are you and I the only ones that can see this???
    Add in terrible referring and teams parking the bus all the team against a good team.
    Lately it hit me and I have come to the realization that this league is garbage.
    Last edited by stevep; 06-22-2019 at 10:42 PM.

  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Pressure by whom? This board and Twitter? Everyone in management knows he's trying to play poker with a pair of deuces in his hand and no chance of winning. What other players would any other coach play? What other formation? Let's face it, once you subtract Jozy, Bradley and Osorio this team is only marginally better than Preki's eastern European cast offs.
    Despite the missing players Vanney was again fielding a higher payroll roster. Preki did not have anything near this roster. The 3 man backline alone that started was on over 1 million. This roster is overpaid and garbage. End of story. Needs a complete clear out.

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I think it's management AND lack of players AND Vanney. I agree he's been dealt an awful hand, but no need for the team to play THAT badly. He's letting his defenders play undisciplined. He's letting his midfielders get away with not defending enough. (Why didn't they at least try to bunker in that game?) He's putting Terrence Boyd alone up front for 82 minutes, with two other strikers on the bench (which would be slightly more OK if they had at least been parking the bus in back during that time).
    Look at NE and Col they changed coaches this year with way worse rosters, both managed to turn it around. Vanney cant get results unless he can throw out 3 DPs and a 30 million $ roster. He has never proved he can win unless he can outspend everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I think that "group" included a fit Jozy, Mavinga, Bradley, and Osorio. That has little relationship to who played tonight.

    As I've said before, they will evaluate Vanney based on what they think he can do in 2020, not with this transitional group. If they think he won't be able to work with that team he'll be gone.
    You might be right. But my spidey sense tells me Vanney is on thin ice unless the club starts putting in some performances. And starts getting points.

 

 

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