Aslong as we beat Montreal in the cup I don't much care. I'd be willing to lose a simple 0-1 game with youngsters against Vancouver, then make a further MLS cup run then them.Originally Posted by themodelcitizen
Aslong as we beat Montreal in the cup I don't much care. I'd be willing to lose a simple 0-1 game with youngsters against Vancouver, then make a further MLS cup run then them.
I don't know. Maybe because the tourney is so quick, I wouldn't get satisfaction from them losing in the finals.
Looking at other Cups, there are so many rounds, you can get kicked out of the quarters/semis and still feel like you took a significant part in it. The VCup feels like an all or nothing. You either won it or you failed.
I agree with ya there... Playoffs are vary important towards our credibiltiy in the league, but not continuing this VC Dynasty and missing the CCL would hurt a lot
Well that's one way to look at it, but I don't think that's what he was arguing.
Give the people here arguing for league play some credit. I think we're all intelligent enough to understand the history of the V's cup and appeal of international competition... to be balanced against it's shortcomings and everything else involved of course.
Feel free to make an argument for league play over international play. I'm not presuming to insult your choice but I am against just following what's popular for the sake of it and dismissing all else. It leads to the insular attitude of the rest of sport here in NA.
Again, not trying to insult differing opinion just offering my preference.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I love V Cup (just to rub it in Vancouver and Montreal supporters lol) and CCL is always amusing distraction... but I feel that any sort of run in CCL is window dressing without any substance. Seems international perception is that CCL does matter (as latest Frings article would tell you), but who are we trying to impress? North Americans first, or the world?
I just think it would be nice to have some domestic respectability, because face it, we are the laughingstock of MLS, and rightly deserved so. The crapulence of our domestic league form makes mockery of any CCL run TFC makes really. And we cannot ignore the reality that V Cup and CCL run (esp with traveling) took its toll on TFC's domestic form (though it's not the only reason TFC sucked in MLS) There is a reason why a lot of MLS teams don't take CCL seriously, because for most teams, it hurts league form. And if you want respect in MLS, you gotta be an MLS Cup winner over CCL run, unless you actually win CCL which seems like a near miracle thing to do. (And RSL only went to CCL final because it didn't have to face Mexican teams in quarter and semi finals)
V Cup is important for matter of pride. Depending on your perspective, it is only slightly easier to win than US Open Cup, with 4 games to win V Cup vice 5 games for USOC. (though you do have to play more different teams in USOC) But if it will help TFC make the playoff for once with less travel fatigue and games, esp this year, as much as it pains me to say it, I wouldn't mind if TFC didn't win V Cup...
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The only domestic competition we play in the in the Voyageurs Cup. MLS is an american league that allows a few Canadians teams to play in it but in the long run they don't give shit about Canada. Winning the MLS doesn't get us anything unlike the American teams who get a birth into the CCL.
I say gain some respectability in the MLS by making the playoffs for god sakes after 6 garbage seasons and then winning a V Cup has more meaning to me,however, continuing with disastrous seasons in the MLS but winning the V Cup again sorry does not cut it with me. Winning the MLS Cup or just making the bloody playoffs means more stability in player movement, coaches and general managers within this team, doing the same thing we have been doing for six seasons means the revolving door of players and front office personel, and dwindling fan interest at that.
i don't even know where to begin rebutting this comment lulz
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
So you think the MLS is a domestic league for Toronto that that the MLS has given Toronto the same treatment as other US teams?
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showth...26#post1549826
debate continued on that thread
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
What's wrong with winning/participating in all competitions and doing well?
Perhaps my expectations are too high but I expect the VCup, expect at least the knock out stages of the CCL and I expect to make the playoffs and at least make it to the second round.
All three are equally important in my eyes and if the team does not accomplish all three, then the season will be a bit of a let down.
in the eyes of most people, the league is the priority and Mariner and co will be judge on success whether TFC makes the playoffs.
not winning V Cup will not axe Mariner; not making the playoffs will.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
ML$E doesn't care about what most people think (if they did, then Mariner and co would have been gone a long time ago). V Cup/CCL brings extra profit to ML$E while MLS reward MLS teams in CCL with allocation money. So I have a hard time believing that ML$E will not judge Mariner, Payne etc. on their performance based on how TFC did during V Cup/CCL as well where they can make more money than they would in playoffs.
actually, MLSE does care what most people think... a lot of decisions have been made due to public outrage or whatever (remember JDG?)
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
No they didn't until end of the last season when attendance went down. JDG signing was on Mo Johnson, MLSE just blindly give Mo the money to sign JDG (BTW: there wasn't a huge demand outside some vocal supporters to sign JDG).
Grass. JDG. Even Preki. All influenced by fans demand
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
how do those words taste?....
ALL HELL'S BROKEN LOOSEhttp://gfycat.com/SharpKindArrowana
Grass is the only thing you can give credit for, but however there was more than just fan demand that made MLSE use transfer money they receive from Edu transfer made them change the turf (remember players complaining about field turf and Mo having trouble signing players due to field turf?). I already explain about JDG (there was no pressure to sign him). Perki? How so?
MLSE should have clean front office and coaching staff right after the season instead of giving them time to get rid of some of the players and keeping Hassli before hiring a President/GM which is going to limit Payne to fix this team this season.
There's a compelling argument to be made that MLSE cares too much about what the fans want, which has led to the consistent instability that this team (and MLSE's other teams) has suffered from.
I'm curious to see if that changes now with the new ownership finally having had time to settle in.
Last edited by Rudi; 01-07-2013 at 10:25 PM.
That's funny because fans (and media to certain extent) of all MLSE teams have argued that MLSE only cares about money (look at price increases in first 7 years of TFC until recently when they decided to reduce ticket prices first time because there was NO demand for TFC anymore). If MLSE really cared about their teams, then they would have held people who have failed to deliver accountable which they haven't done so and never increase ticket prices every year which turn a lot of people off. If Anselmi wasn't promoted, then he will still be TFC president today and most likely kept Mariner and co.
While we're unsure as to who was responsible for the changes recently made we can be sure that someone recognized that Mariner wasn't right for the position and now he's gone. Let's just state openly that "A long time ago" is a matter of less than 5 months is what we're talking about. While I would've preferred the change the day after the season ended this is far better IMO than mid-season follies.
The $$$ from Vcup and CCL you're accusing of MLSE of chasing is a pittance compared to what playoffs brings to them over a following season.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
We will win the Champions League and then crush the world at the World Club Championships. We have the team and coaches to do it! It you believe enough, it will happen!
i also believe pigs can fly
I know a lot of people are looking forward to March 16 at the Big O, but I am wondering who is making/thinking of the trip back to Montreal on May 1 for the Voyageur Cup match at Saputo?
Remember The Man, The Legend, The Goal 5-12-07 and All That #9 Left On The Pitch, Thanks For The Memories !!!
I think winning the Voyageurs cup is a nice little side-tournament, and it's always fun to school Vancouver and Montreal. But let's not kid ourselves - it's not even close to the importance of making the play-offs. We're champions, but no one cares. NO ONE! Except the hardcore supporters of the club. I mean, think of it - we're champions of Canada, and yet we're considered the biggest loser by EVERYONE! Every Canadian, every American. Why? Because no one cares about the cup. The local media doesn't care. The league doesn't care. Heck, even Montreal and Vancouver don't really care if we win the title again and again. SUCKING in the MLS is far more damaging to our reputation, and as such making the play-offs is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more important than winning the Voyageurs Cup. That being said, of course I'd hate to not win the cup. But I'd gladly hand over that trophy to Montreal or Vancouver if it means us making the play-offs and being considered less of a joke. Heck yeah!
Yeah, playing one playoff game is more important than winning V-Cup and playing in CCL. Typical North American sports fanBTW: Vancouver and Montreal take V-Cup seriously enough that they bench their first team a league game before a V-Cup game.
whether you like it or not, legitimacy in MLS is gained through being competitive in league play. that means making the playoffs. win a 4 team mini cup tourney? most would think it's a joke.Yeah, playing one playoff game is more important than winning V-Cup and playing in CCL. Typical North American sports fan
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Most as in American media? Qualifying for the playoffs (like half teams in MLS do) doesn't mean much in the end especially when you're one and done. That doesn't bring much respect either! Playoff just gives average teams something to play for in the end. Winning supporters shield should mean more than winning playoffs in the end. Too bad no one talks about winning the shield here.
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