New Renewing/Not renewing poll

[prizby]

Customers get pissed when they discover others have paid less for a ticket than they paid.

you may not have noticed, but TFC will have put a minimum floor price on tickets, so no matter what happens, the price won't drop below x amount (meaning season ticket holders will have paid the least amount)

if you are referring to other single game ticket buyers, unless a fan is going up to every other fan and asking, what did you pay, what did you pay, then its not that big of a deal...in the end, we are talking about single game ticket buyers and if they are 'pissed' about the price, then that is more of an incentive for them to buy season tickets so they can get the lowest guaranteed price per game.

The fact of the matter is, in the current market, there is a greater fan acceptance to real-time pricing in sports

[narduch]

you may not have noticed, but TFC will have put a minimum floor price on tickets, so no matter what happens, the price won't drop below x amount (meaning season ticket holders will have paid the least amount)

I know that. (I may have been the first person to post that fact on this forum)

Its not just season ticket holders that I am talking about here.

Besides the floor is meaningless in regards to my point. If somebody pays full price on the day singles go on sale, only to find out that the price dropped closer to match day, they will not be happy.

This happens with concerts all the time.

[prizby]

I know that. (I may have been the first person to post that fact on this forum)

Its not just season ticket holders that I am talking about here.

Besides the floor is meaningless in regards to my point. If somebody pays full price on the day singles go on sale, only to find out that the price dropped closer to match day, they will not be happy.

This happens with concerts all the time.

see my edit above...its a mute point though

[narduch]

see my edit above...its a mute point though

Its not. You are just downplaying it.

[Pookie]

Its not. You are just downplaying it.

I'm not sure he is downplaying it. Single game buyers already know that they are paying more (or should be) paying more than season ticket holders.

[prizby]

Its not. You are just downplaying it.

not at all...you don't have to agree, but the facts are dynamic pricing increase revenue, increase ticket sales, and it is proven to work

[Oldtimer]

secodary resell sites still fit under 'scalpers' because they tickets are not sold at face value; and while you may not negotiate, the people selling tickets will adjust their prices if they need to

and scalpers do use them to sell tickets, they don't just sit with their tickets until gameday

Stubhub sellers can adjust their prices at any time. They can also use features like "the price declines by X until the tickets are sold." So it is pretty well a free market. You don't have to be a scalper to sell on there (I sold tickets for face value there twice), but 90%+ of the sellers are.

[Pookie]

Stubhub sellers can adjust their prices at any time. They can also use features like "the price declines by X until the tickets are sold." So it is pretty well a free market. You don't have to be a scalper to sell on there (I sold tickets for face value there twice), but 90%+ of the sellers are.

And when you combine corporate deals between StubHub and leagues like the NHL, you can see why scalping (for profit) is allegedly never enforced.

[bones]

So technically speaking, what's the loop hole that Ticketbastard uses since they own Stubhub to NOT get charged with scalping? If they originally sell a ticket to someone who sells it back to them for them to sell at a higher price than original, is that not the definition of scalping?

[narduch]

So technically speaking, what's the loop hole that Ticketbastard uses since they own Stubhub to NOT get charged with scalping? If they originally sell a ticket to someone who sells it back to them for them to sell at a higher price than original, is that not the definition of scalping?

Ebay owns Stub Hub.

Ticketmaster owns Tickets Now, and there was a little bit of controversy for that site a few years back, but it has passed.

How do they get away with it? Authorities don't give a shit. Besides, the people putting on the events (sports teams, concert promoters, etc.) LOVE scalpers.

[Pookie]

So technically speaking, what's the loop hole that Ticketbastard uses since they own Stubhub to NOT get charged with scalping? If they originally sell a ticket to someone who sells it back to them for them to sell at a higher price than original, is that not the definition of scalping?

Well, I'm not a lawyer but I believe that the user agreement puts the risk squarely on the seller. For example on Stubhub, they state:

When setting the sale price of your tickets, it is your responsibility to comply with all applicable local, state, federal, and international laws, statutes, and regulations.


Certain U.S. states, Canadian provinces, and municipalities have ticket resale regulations. Regulations differ by location and may apply to different aspects of ticket resale. For example, some laws may regulate the resale price, require you to be a licensed reseller or require you to provide certain disclosures. Below is a basic list with some of these regulations. This is not an all-inclusive list of the laws that may apply to you or your actions. Although we try to keep this information up to date, it's your responsibility to check the laws where you reside and where the venue is located. It's also up to you to determine if any of these laws or any other laws apply to you. You should review the laws that are applicable to you to determine if or how the law applies to you or the tickets you are listing for sale.

So, when you list your tickets, you have to sign off that you comply with local regulations. They simply make a percentage of the final purchase price, which you have warranted is compliant with local laws. If it turns out you sold them for a profit, that's your risk. They simply take a percentage of the sale.

[glaze]

Plus outside BMO it isn't a factor as tickets are being sold for less than cost these days. Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.
That said, the guys must be doing something right as its been the same scampers outside every Toronto concert and sporting venue for years.
As with anything pricing is supply and demand. My issue with ticketing is more geared to teams and promoters holding back large blocks of seats or setting them aside for insiders rather than making them available to the general public. Even tfc does this, as not all the seats in all the sections are available for ssh purchase. This will be especially interesting for this years relocation

[ryan]

Plus outside BMO it isn't a factor as tickets are being sold for less than cost these days. Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.
That said, the guys must be doing something right as its been the same scampers outside every Toronto concert and sporting venue for years.
As with anything pricing is supply and demand. My issue with ticketing is more geared to teams and promoters holding back large blocks of seats or setting them aside for insiders rather than making them available to the general public. Even tfc does this, as not all the seats in all the sections are available for ssh purchase. This will be especially interesting for this years relocation

Pisses me off to no end how many seats in 111 are held off from SSH purchase. I had 2 "partial packs" there for 2 full seasons, they wouldn't let me retain the same fucking seats I and only I used for 2 seasons.

Gotta sell the newbs on the south end atmosphere ya know.

[bones]

Plus outside BMO it isn't a factor as tickets are being sold for less than cost these days. Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.
That said, the guys must be doing something right as its been the same scampers outside every Toronto concert and sporting venue for years.
As with anything pricing is supply and demand. My issue with ticketing is more geared to teams and promoters holding back large blocks of seats or setting them aside for insiders rather than making them available to the general public. Even tfc does this, as not all the seats in all the sections are available for ssh purchase. This will be especially interesting for this years relocation

I think it's pretty common knowledge there's a scalping ring. Go to one guy and ask for something outrageous or super lowball and he's on his earpiece to the others alerting of a potential major request or blackball. Seen it many times and I just laugh at them or ignore them.

As for the "reasonable markup" this very site has done it by charging "face value". Buy seasons and you don't come close to paying "face value". I know I've been told that it's "accepted practice" on this site to charge up to face value but ... I always thought that was pathetic and that's my opinion. I think some people would even want to push the envelope and say they wanted to recoop the Ticketbastard fee if they had to pay it.

[brad]

As for the "reasonable markup" this very site has done it by charging "face value". Buy seasons and you don't come close to paying "face value". I know I've been told that it's "accepted practice" on this site to charge up to face value but ... I always thought that was pathetic and that's my opinion. I think some people would even want to push the envelope and say they wanted to recoop the Ticketbastard fee if they had to pay it.

Face value is commonly accepted as ticket cost + fees for that ticket, seeing the idea is to recoup what you paid, not to make a profit. The TFC seasons being sold at face instead of actual value is indeed taking a profit though.

[bones]

Face value is commonly accepted as ticket cost + fees for that ticket, seeing the idea is to recoup what you paid, not to make a profit. The TFC seasons being sold at face instead of actual value is indeed taking a profit though.

When you buy a season there are no fees so if you are selling a ticket out of your season to ask for face value is criminal in my opinion but again, I know, people here say that's ok.

[Oldtimer]

When you buy a season there are no fees so if you are selling a ticket out of your season to ask for face value is criminal in my opinion but again, I know, people here say that's ok.

We discussed it extensively before we ever set things up and it was a compromise position between those who said all sales at cost and those who wanted an unrestricted free market.

This discussion is off-topic to whether people are renewing, and is a group policy issue. Please take it to the member's section if you wish to further discuss this topic.

[Oldtimer]

One thing that has changed greatly for renewals is two things:

(1) Ability to get cheap tickets on Groupon, etc.

(2) The inability to sell tickets for anything close to what you paid for them, if at all.

If you are only attending 5-10 games a year, and can't sell the rest of your package, those Groupon sales, even if a few dollars more look like a better deal than Season Tickets.
If you attend close to 100% of the games, season tickets remain your best deal.

[nonc]

The majority voting 'yes' regardless of changes have nothing to complain about during 2013.

[Wull]

The majority voting 'yes' regardless of changes have nothing to complain about during 2013.

not true, I plan on using my voice from the stand from day one next year if the current brain trust are still in charge come March. What does an empty seat or one that someone else has filled do to send them a message?

[Belfast_Boy]

not true, I plan on using my voice from the stand from day one next year if the current brain trust are still in charge come March. What does an empty seat or one that someone else has filled do to send them a message?

agreed mon ami!

as a seasons seat holder I think we have a greater voice.

[v00d00daddy]

not true, I plan on using my voice from the stand from day one next year if the current brain trust are still in charge come March. What does an empty seat or one that someone else has filled do to send them a message?

agreed mon ami!

as a seasons seat holder I think we have a greater voice.

This is all based on the premise that somebody will be filling any seat left vacant by non renewals.

That just isn't going to happen. At best you'll see current SSH move from expensive seats to cheaper seats. There is no waiting list. There will not be new SSH.

As a season seat holder they don't care about our voices. If they did things would have changed already. The only thing that provokes change from our FO is making them feel it in the pocket book. They don't give a shit what you say before, during or after the game....as long as you paid to get into the game. They only start to worry when it's time to convince people to come back. (Hence the price drop this year).

Literally the worst thing that could happen to TFC would be a very strong SSH renewal rate. If that happens, they'll know that no matter how bad or dysfunctional the team and FO are....with the proper marketing and ass kissing they can win us back enough for them to turn a profit.

Personally I don't think there is a unified enough voice from any of the supporters to force any change. What's worse is that there never will be. TFC supporters are too different in terms of the way they approach the game.

If this team doesn't create a winning product, the product will not last. I don't know how many more horrible seasons they can withstand.

To bastardize a Tragically Hip lyric:

Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

[Wull]

This is all based on the premise that somebody will be filling any seat left vacant by non renewals.

That just isn't going to happen. At best you'll see current SSH move from expensive seats to cheaper seats. There is no waiting list. There will not be new SSH.

As a season seat holder they don't care about our voices. If they did things would have changed already. The only thing that provokes change from our FO is making them feel it in the pocket book. They don't give a shit what you say before, during or after the game....as long as you paid to get into the game. They only start to worry when it's time to convince people to come back. (Hence the price drop this year).

Literally the worst thing that could happen to TFC would be a very strong SSH renewal rate. If that happens, they'll know that no matter how bad or dysfunctional the team and FO are....with the proper marketing and ass kissing they can win us back enough for them to turn a profit.

Personally I don't think there is a unified enough voice from any of the supporters to force any change. What's worse is that there never will be. TFC supporters are too different in terms of the way they approach the game.

If this team doesn't create a winning product, the product will not last. I don't know how many more horrible seasons they can withstand.

To bastardize a Tragically Hip lyric:

Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

they don't like seeing the protests inside and outside the stadium, I know that for a fact. If that happens again at the start of next season, they'll have to try something else to make it stop

[ag futbol]

I don’t want to be too cynical but I’m worried about the experience people who have renewed will have next year.

MLSE can talk about the SSH price being the “floor” all they want, but with scalpers and ticket resellers online I expect things to be pretty fluid. If it gets as ugly as we all anticipate, seasons will start looking expensive again.

Everyone has their reasons… but if the resale value gets out of whack again next year along with a bad product, they really will have screwed this team up beyond our wildest imagination. Against out best instincts, we better start praying to god that Paul Mariner does something useful next year, because he might be the last shot this club has at keeping people’s attention before they are relegated to a Marlies level of importance in the Toronto sports scene.

[Wull]

This is all based on the premise that somebody will be filling any seat left vacant by non renewals.

That just isn't going to happen. At best you'll see current SSH move from expensive seats to cheaper seats. There is no waiting list. There will not be new SSH.

As a season seat holder they don't care about our voices. If they did things would have changed already. The only thing that provokes change from our FO is making them feel it in the pocket book. They don't give a shit what you say before, during or after the game....as long as you paid to get into the game. They only start to worry when it's time to convince people to come back. (Hence the price drop this year).

Literally the worst thing that could happen to TFC would be a very strong SSH renewal rate. If that happens, they'll know that no matter how bad or dysfunctional the team and FO are....with the proper marketing and ass kissing they can win us back enough for them to turn a profit.

Personally I don't think there is a unified enough voice from any of the supporters to force any change. What's worse is that there never will be. TFC supporters are too different in terms of the way they approach the game.

If this team doesn't create a winning product, the product will not last. I don't know how many more horrible seasons they can withstand.

To bastardize a Tragically Hip lyric:

Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.

[narduch]

Every man has his breaking point. For them it's money. For me it's TFC. Thugs in perpetuity.

Nice one! Was actually listening to Day For Night yesterday.

[jloome]

see my edit above...its a mute point though

Three smacks with the spelling ruler (they used to do that, you know) for spelling "moot" as "mute."

[jloome]

Additionally it is my understanding that a reasonable markup is permitted before a scalping charge comes into play.

My understanding is that your understanding is incorrect. I base mine on talking to cops. They just don't consider it a high priority to chase.

[v00d00daddy]

Nice one! Was actually listening to Day For Night yesterday.

Great album.

I've come to think that the line "thugs in perpetuity" fits the TFC FO so well when it comes to their treatment of the fans. Lol

[ensco]

Also, apparently they're on pace to make a new record for renewals in the early going so the reds and the north stand may take a hit but they may have dodged that particular bullet for now.

If you are not renewing, but want to go to some games in 2013, you are rooting for the renewal rate to be high. It means more tickets in the secondary market.