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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    If you dont love Jozy, his contract is hard to take…. He needs a team around him but he was a beast and a clutch performer. If Vanney plays him to start the 2nd half, we win MLS cup in 2019. That was the perfect theatre for him and I still cannot figure out, why not. We were screaming from the 3 level to get him on.

    btw… that was one of the most impressive TFC crowds I have been a part of. We need to get back to the Cup.
    Totally agreed. On both points

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmancan View Post
    If Vanney plays him to start the 2nd half, we win MLS cup in 2019. That was the perfect theatre for him and I still cannot figure out, why not. We were screaming from the 3 level to get him on.
    Vanney probably didn't think Jozy had 45+ minutes on that carpet in him.

  3. #393
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    In all honestly, and to put it bluntly - who cares. He goes in a 0-0 it is different, it works more to our game than extending the field and attacking because we are 1 down. I know hindsight is 20/20 but if he blows a tire, you still have two subs left and the great Mullinho on the bench…LOL. In that situation, Jozy is the man, say what you want any other time, but right there, right then i want Jozy and Poz feeding him.

  4. #394
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    Have to assume that decision was entirely fitness, no way he sits on Jozy in that game when the game was crying out for him. He maybe simply had a half hour tops with him, and don't forget extra time was a real possibility. I mean put it this way, no way Vanney saw that game and didn't reach the same conclusion at half time as everyone else yet he still chose not to act on it. He's either completely incompetent or has access to information that we don't and the latter is by far the simplest explanation

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    So it's February 1, and Jozy didn’t find a deal in Europe or Mexico. So that means he is staying in MLS.

    At this point I am guessing teams just wait for the buyout, then SKC or whoever signs him the next day. (lots or Twitter talk that he will be the Pulido replacement)

    Feels like they may as well just buy him out now, and be done with it. Can't imagine any sort of deal coming together or it going any other way. Although I suppose doing that just helps a rival, so maybe it's gotta be Feb 26.

    Love him or hate him, you watch… he will score 4 goals in his first three games and get a USMNT call for the last window.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    He wouldn't be in match shape by March. He might score 4 in 3 in his first matches but probably not until May.
    I see it more like, if he is on the field, he can score. Like he did on that last goal against Montreal he scored for us vs Montreal, where he didn't look very mobile in that game.

    The striker problem is a real crisis for the US. I mean Junior Hoilett would be going 90 right now for the US if he were American, it's not sustainable that the US is getting less from its first choice number 9 than Canada would from its third choice player.

    The US have a tough final window, with away games at Mexico and CR. It's not the place for Zardes or an 18 year old striker, it has got to be on Berhalter's mind.

    With the big roster size, it can make sense even if you only get a game out of him before he blows a tire.

    It's sort of a weird cross current, but I wonder if, as a result of the US results this past week, BB quietly does Jozy and Berhalter a solid here by resolving this now, so that Jozy can get going with a team, and Berhalter can actually then figure out if there is anything there..
    Last edited by ensco; 02-01-2022 at 10:13 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  6. #396
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    The thought that a healthy Jozy would really change the complexion of the US team admittedly crossed my mind on Sunday. If he were smart, he'd be getting in the shape of his life right now because it's on for him if he can. I agree with Ensco above: US is terrible up front.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    With the big roster size, it can make sense even if you only get a game out of him before he blows a tire.

    It's sort of a weird cross current, but I wonder if, as a result of the US results this past week, BB quietly does Jozy and Berhalter a solid here by resolving this now, so that Jozy can get going with a team, and Berhalter can actually then figure out if there is anything there..
    Problem is Jozy is almost certainly out of shape and would take weeks to get into form, even if he was bought out and signed with another team immediately.

    Once in shape, I'm sure the US could use him, even if only for a couple of games.

    If I'm Berhalter I wouldn't be afraid of the USMNT not qualifying, though, it's more about pride. They'll be in Qatar. Jozy could help with the pride part though, beating Mexico has to be up there. But I don't think he's ready to play.

    If Jozy had been thinking of USMNT duty or even being better placed in the shop window he'd be training with TFC, but he isn't.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 02-01-2022 at 10:51 AM.
    MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    If Jozy had been thinking of USMNT duty or even being better placed in the shop window he'd be training with TFC, but he isn't.
    Why do we think this is his choice?

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    We all know Jozy takes months to get into shape.
    He isn't playing for the US this or even the next window.

    I don't see him even considering stepping into a match until End of March beginning of April.
    We still need to release him and he still needs to find a club. He isn't training with anyone right now, which means he probably doing it on his own, which means he is probably over bulking and will get injured as soon as he steps on the pitch.

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    My prediction is he is retired at the end of this year. Zero chance he doesn't sustain an injury within the next 3 months, then it will just be more the same. Tired of this soap opera, let's all move on from this dark period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    We all know Jozy takes months to get into shape. We don't know this. He is injury prone, yes.
    He isn't playing for the US this or even the next window. We don't know this. You don't know this.
    I don't see him even considering stepping into a match until End of March beginning of April. Seems farfetched, he has gone 6 months since he last played.
    We still need to release him and he still needs to find a club. Hey, a true fact.
    He isn't training with anyone right now, which means he probably doing it on his own, which means he is probably over bulking and will get injured as soon as he steps on the pitch.We don't know any of this. You don't know any of his.
    My comments in red, above.

    I think people who really viscerally don't rate him should feel more sure that they have been heard. Believe me, you have made yourselves heard.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme View Post
    Why do we think this is his choice?
    I think, if he wanted to train, they would probably let him. Just based on his relationship with MB.

    I don't think players are paid for pre-season, so that is part of it.

    But your question is valid. We don't know. They may have told him to stay home. (The same soap opera is currently going on with Dragic in the Raptors camp btw - nobody knows if he left the team or was sent home)
    Last edited by ensco; 02-01-2022 at 02:14 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  13. #403
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    IIRC, if he gets bought out, Jozy is a free agent. In theory, he can sign with any team anywhere the registration window is still open.

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    The other Jozy scenario we haven’t really talked about is the Frings scenario, ie some sort of insurance settlement. If he really can’t play anymore.

    That could save us the buyout. Which would mean we could use it elsewhere.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    My comments in red, above.

    I think people who really viscerally don't rate him should feel more sure that they have been heard. Believe me, you have made yourselves heard.
    [moderator edit]

    You are right, we don't know Jozy's current situation health wise, but history seemed to have constantly repeated itself when it comes to his fitness over the past 3 years, what makes you think things have changed now?

    Since you quoted me when you say "people viscerally don't rate him" I can only assume you are lumping me into that category.
    I rate Jozy's skill and his ability to compete in MLS, - I just don't rate his health and fitness. And that's the issue. it's always been the issue.

    The only time he's played a full season without major disruption due to injury was in 2017. Every other year he's missed significant time due to injury and recovery and takes longer and longer with each injury to ramp back up to speed.

    I'm not going to quote anything you wrote in red because well, I don't agree with most of what you write on this board. Not even that we have differing opinions that I'm not open to listen to - I just think you are more interested in playing virtual FO than talking about footy.

    So carry on with your open letters, but please keep me out of your reply's
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 02-02-2022 at 04:29 AM.

  16. #406
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    ^ Dearly beloved who are gathered here today,

    This is why I'm happy this is outside of the current roster thread.

  17. #407
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    ^It's kind of leaving me sad, upon reflection.

    This thread, I think, should be morphing into a kind of appreciation thread, in terms of spirit (while acknowledging the injury history and the folly of the 2019 contract).

    As it stands, it seems, trying to deliver or defend a “glass half full” type of “eulogy” gets both Jozy and the poster pretty pointed clap backs.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  18. #408
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    ^ Lots of time for that.... let's just wait for news.

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    There are lots of people who have accused Jozy of being lazy, despite all the evidence to the contrary ie him scoring critical goals for us after getting hurt (ankle, contact injury) and the fact that he played and trained for months on an ankle so bad that he had to have surgery. its grossly unfair and there is no evidence to back it up.

    As for post injury recovery, and non presence at training camp, I continue to find it weird. BB specifically pointed out that Seba has kept himself very fit but that it will take time to get him to the level needed for games (I am certain this was the issue with Jozy in 2020 because of COVID and 2021 because of Chris Armas). If Jozy is to keep playing and if Toronto has any hope of getting something for him, he needs to be match fit. Not just fit, match fit. It makes no sense that he isnt here unless he didnt really recover from the surgery and has to retire.

  20. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyDM View Post
    There are lots of people who have accused Jozy of being lazy, despite all the evidence to the contrary ie him scoring critical goals for us after getting hurt (ankle, contact injury) and the fact that he played and trained for months on an ankle so bad that he had to have surgery. its grossly unfair and there is no evidence to back it up.

    As for post injury recovery, and non presence at training camp, I continue to find it weird. BB specifically pointed out that Seba has kept himself very fit but that it will take time to get him to the level needed for games (I am certain this was the issue with Jozy in 2020 because of COVID and 2021 because of Chris Armas). If Jozy is to keep playing and if Toronto has any hope of getting something for him, he needs to be match fit. Not just fit, match fit. It makes no sense that he isnt here unless he didnt really recover from the surgery and has to retire.
    I don't think that's it, dude. They've already told him he's not welcome back and that they're going to buy him out. But he can't go train with another team until that happens; they don't want to pay out both years, he figures he's due both, and if they're not roster compliant by the start of the season, he'll win by the clock running out.

    So, it's probably over, in the most graceless form possible unfortunately. I hate to say it, but that's really the only scenario that would seem to currently fit what's happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    I don't think that's it, dude. They've already told him he's not welcome back and that they're going to buy him out. But he can't go train with another team until that happens; they don't want to pay out both years, he figures he's due both, and if they're not roster compliant by the start of the season, he'll win by the clock running out.

    So, it's probably over, in the most graceless form possible unfortunately. I hate to say it, but that's really the only scenario that would seem to currently fit what's happening.
    I agree with this scenario, but do we know know that they told him he is not welcome back? Or is that just the thinking given he isn’t in preseason? Curious if I missed something.

    I still think he could play this season for us. I think if he was on the field for the US against Canada he pots at least one, maybe two goals with the pressure into our box they created. In spirit of the purpose of this thread, when he plays, he is still a force to be reckoned with on the field.

  22. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post
    I agree with this scenario, but do we know know that they told him he is not welcome back? Or is that just the thinking given he isn’t in preseason? Curious if I missed something.

    I still think he could play this season for us. I think if he was on the field for the US against Canada he pots at least one, maybe two goals with the pressure into our box they created. In spirit of the purpose of this thread, when he plays, he is still a force to be reckoned with on the field.
    Yeah, good points. We don't know it, but it seems either he or they don't want him there... or he'd be there. He simply can't keep in game shape training alone at home. If he wasn't frozen out, he would be in camp.

    I still think he has enough in him to be dangerous for us. His starts were pretty limited last year but he still scored four goals late in the season, including a couple of important ones. I think realistically he's more a 60th minute danger man now, but I also think BB is savvy enough to know he could do a job. So if he isn't there despite that, it's because they don't want him or he won't report.

    From everything I know of how much he loves Toronto (and people who had decent inside dope on the guy from 2017, 2018 make it clear the guy bleeds red) he would be there if he was allowed to be. He didn't think he was done last year, he thought after the foot surgery he could get back to work.

    But there are strong political elements at play. People can't underestimate how close the Bradleys are to Chris Armas and the whole crew that Bob coached at Chicago. MB considers Armas like an older brother.

    The Bradleys are also both, from description, very serious men even away from the pitch, and they respect chain of command. As soon as he was suspended, whether justified or not (it really wasn't, he called Armas an idiot for not playing two strikers, but that's a concerned player saying too much and deserving a benching), he was probably done with the team for good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jloome View Post
    Yeah, good points. We don't know it, but it seems either he or they don't want him there... or he'd be there. He simply can't keep in game shape training alone at home. If he wasn't frozen out, he would be in camp.

    I still think he has enough in him to be dangerous for us. His starts were pretty limited last year but he still scored four goals late in the season, including a couple of important ones. I think realistically he's more a 60th minute danger man now, but I also think BB is savvy enough to know he could do a job. So if he isn't there despite that, it's because they don't want him or he won't report.

    From everything I know of how much he loves Toronto (and people who had decent inside dope on the guy from 2017, 2018 make it clear the guy bleeds red) he would be there if he was allowed to be. He didn't think he was done last year, he thought after the foot surgery he could get back to work.

    But there are strong political elements at play. People can't underestimate how close the Bradleys are to Chris Armas and the whole crew that Bob coached at Chicago. MB considers Armas like an older brother.

    The Bradleys are also both, from description, very serious men even away from the pitch, and they respect chain of command. As soon as he was suspended, whether justified or not (it really wasn't, he called Armas an idiot for not playing two strikers, but that's a concerned player saying too much and deserving a benching), he was probably done with the team for good.
    Gotcha. All that makes sense. Forgot about the history the Bradley’s and Armas have.

    Now that the glory days of the USMT are done for Jozy and Michael, their relationship may have dwindled with it.

    True that it is hard to take him absent from camp any other way than he is out, no matter what. It just seems like such a poor decision from both sides. It diminishes any “value” other teams may perceive of Jozy and it diminishes his ability to stay in shape and jump into a new team. Just don’t get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrillos View Post
    Gotcha. All that makes sense. Forgot about the history the Bradley’s and Armas have.

    Now that the glory days of the USMT are done for Jozy and Michael, their relationship may have dwindled with it.

    True that it is hard to take him absent from camp any other way than he is out, no matter what. It just seems like such a poor decision from both sides. It diminishes any “value” other teams may perceive of Jozy and it diminishes his ability to stay in shape and jump into a new team. Just don’t get it.
    Now that it appears he might be going to new england, it's possible he's already training there. He gets to keep playing, he gets a shot at titles, and Arena can use him as a strong sub behind Bou and Buksa, as he intends to use Omar.

    Tough to see him go there, though.

  25. #415
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    Jozy playing on turf for the Revs does seem like a way to be out 2/3 of the season. I'm sure he'll still knock in the goals when he's healthy, but how often will that be?

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    So there it is. Three years, that is interesting. Cap hit management, whatever, that is a major commitment from a team that already had one of the best striker setups in MLS. That surprises me more than seeing him move to play on turf.

    There is certainly risk in this but “Arena is making an obvious mistake” regarding injury risk or turf or whatever, wouldn’t be my take. We had issues with the grass and with our medical setup here for all the time he was here. (We may well still do.) We don’t really know what his medical situation is, and there is a pretty good chance that Arena has a better handle on that than we do.

    Jozy is a generational talent and a warrior, albeit snakebit with injuries. I really think he is a special player. I wish him well in any game in which TFC or Canada is not involved… and especially against Montreal (you know he will never stop scoring on them)

    It was time for him to go but I wish this had ended differently.

    Good night all.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-03-2022 at 11:52 PM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    So there it is. Three years, that is interesting. Cap hit management, whatever, that is a major commitment from a team that already had one of the best striker setups in MLS. That surprises me more than seeing him move to play on turf.

    There is certainly risk in this but “Arena is making an obvious mistake” regarding injury risk or turf or whatever, wouldn’t be my take. We had issues with the grass and with our medical setup here for all the time he was here. (We may well still do.) We don’t really know what his medical situation is, and there is a pretty good chance that Arena has a better handle on that than we do.

    Jozy is a generational talent and a warrior, albeit snakebit with injuries. I really think he is a special player. I wish him well in any game in which TFC or Canada is not involved… and especially against Montreal (you know he will never stop scoring on them)

    It was time for him to go but I wish this had ended differently.

    Good night all.
    I'm really surprised about the 3-year deal, but yes that lets the Revs commit less cap space and allocation money to Jozy at the start of the contract. Perhaps Jozy will mostly be utilized as a sub in away games on grass?

    One way or another, we can bet that some Jozy-related posts from this and other threads will re-appear as quotes in future posts, now that he's staying in the league!

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    My first thought when it turned about to be NER was to remember this incident

    https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/toron...y-hamstring-in


    The thing they don't show in this video is Jozy slamming his water bottle against a wall on his way out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    I'm really surprised about the 3-year deal, but yes that lets the Revs commit less cap space and allocation money to Jozy at the start of the contract. Perhaps Jozy will mostly be utilized as a sub in away games on grass?
    I think the sub part is probably really meaningful. Makes me wonder if part of the medical science underlying the signing is that the risk here is more manageable if all he ever does is go, say, 45 minutes max. That 2019 injury before the playoffs, I remember he got that in the 70th or 75th minute of the last regular season game.

    The grass vs turf part, I instinctively feel what everyone else does. But it has to be acknowledged that better older players have had a lot of longevity and success in Portland, Seattle, Atlanta…
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Auzzy View Post
    One way or another, we can bet that some Jozy-related posts from this and other threads will re-appear as quotes in future posts, now that he's staying in the league!
    Not by me. We all get it wrong a lot. I thought it was insane to believe TFC were serious about Insigne. Most of us are only right about half the time. Besides, Jozy really could just flame out in NE.

    What I really didn’t like, and don’t like, are the Jozy posts that I believe were insulting to him, shot through with malice. I hope that stops now.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-04-2022 at 08:05 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

 

 

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