^ What this guy said.Originally Posted by London
Weird phenomenon how some people in that stadium expect us to be their entertainment.
^ What this guy said.
Weird phenomenon how some people in that stadium expect us to be their entertainment.
I didn't hear a single thing to that effect in 114, and it was dead quiet other than me wondering aloud when we became the Rogers Centre or the ACC.
/Fixed
I stand by what I wrote in the game thread. This was the first home game after winning a historic double. It was shameful and embarrassing for everyone in south end and 127. No chanting in the first half and then we sing when we're winning? Ridiculous.
Fucking hell, we got tourists in 225 to start chants. Why could people in the south end start their own?
What's the point of being a member? RPB is no longer a supporter group.
This.
And That.
ASK NOT WHAT THE CLUB HAS DONE FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THE CLUB.
yes Blazer is the drums that need to go.
Drummers get the fuck out.
Capos get the fuck out
Flag idiots get the fuck out
People that bitch at all of the above, get the fuck out
this explains why the south end why so dead tonight.
yea get the fuck out.
here is one for you Blazer
Why are people all worked up about who was (or wasn't) there on time or sang or cheered and who didn't?
Worry about what you do game in and game out and thats it. I don't look to the person beside me to judge myself against. I don't look to 112 for every thing. I don't care who is in the seat behind me. I go for TFC....and nothing will change that for me.
Go to the game (or bar or watch from home if you can't make it)....and just be the best supporter you can be. If everyone just worries about what themselves....we will be miles ahead. People get way to caught up in the actions (or lack thereof) of others.
I think we are really asking the same question Nav...
What we need is GOOD drums. (and its still a work in progress - people are trying though) Drums keep the beat and the rhythm of the chant.
^ People have been trying for 5 years. It’s not getting any better. You’re right, drums are supposed to keep a beat or a rhythm. Our drum however ... is broken.
Last edited by Blazer; 09-18-2011 at 01:07 AM.
and your pic captured the one and only flag in the whole south east corner ... guess that guy didn't get the memoThis was taken today right after the National Anthem.
As you can see...a mere moments before the game, there are vast swathes of the stands completely empty. Entire rows of 112 and 113 with no-one there.
Very few people watching the warm-up, a couple more to listen to the announcement of the starting line-up, and maybe a hand-ful more for the national anthem.
great game, loved it, even the sunburnt face and hoarse throat, wonderful day
C'mon, did anyone notice that TFC won the game....isn't that supposed to be the focus?
if you have ever capod, you'd know you need the drum
the drum is needed because it keeps the rhythm
the issue is you have casuals and others who still haven't figured out how to follow the drums beat
!+1!
Last edited by prizby; 09-18-2011 at 06:25 AM.
Scanners did not work at one point,I had people in my section coming late and all of them where pissed,some of them waited 15+ minutes to get in.This was taken today right after the National Anthem.
As you can see...a mere moments before the game, there are vast swathes of the stands completely empty. Entire rows of 112 and 113 with no-one there.
Very few people watching the warm-up, a couple more to listen to the announcement of the starting line-up, and maybe a hand-ful more for the national anthem.
jeeze...... here's a simple fact guys....
some days are better than others, and for no reason other than "some days are better than others"
There was kind of a 'perfect storm' effect that just took some of the energy away. We didn't have the drum, we (and 113) didn't start a capo in the stands, it was an early start, our last game was a bad loss for the one thing we're still playing for..... shit happens.
having said that - we are there to support the team, but we are NOT paid cheerleaders or in ANYWAY accountable to the other people in the stadium. We aren't there to "provide atmosphere". Some days are better than others.
As for the people in 110 trying to chirp at us.... glad to see it worked so well for you. Eventually they just started yelling at the people in the middle of 110 who choose to sit, and all that was accomplished as a load of bad vibes.
here's a thought - if you find yourself at BMo, yelling at another person in the stands (who's wearing the same colour as you) then you really need to look in the mirror and ask "What's the real problem here?" Because there's a good chance, it's you.
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^ Agreed with some of it. Folks chirping 112 have to figure out their own reasons for being at the game.
As for this:
... I'd disagree with your perspective."having said that - we are there to support the team, but we are NOT paid cheerleaders or in ANYWAY accountable to the other people in the stadium. We aren't there to "provide atmosphere".
Our Charter is pretty basic in that we exist to support Toronto FC. By default, folks are going to look at us in amazement or to us for guidance to help them encourage folks in their section to join in. Whether that makes us feel like a side show or not, it is what it is.
It's pretty basic, we show up, in a group, to support the team on the field.
That's what the 112 ticket movement was about. We read countless posts about "families and soccer moms", about supporter controlled sections and other opinions as to why we are different. Simply put if you want to be different than section 108 then you have to be different than section 108. Period.
"In the sun, in the rain
We will always call your name
Through the thick and the thin
We are loyal to the end"
Perhaps we should all remember those lyrics or simply change them:
"In the sun, but not before 7 pm
We will sing, right near the end
Through the week, and if the last game was a win
You should have heard how good we've been"
It really is a defining moment for our group and I agree with Jack in that there are a number of "off field" issues that need to be discussed and worked through. Ideally, there will be a forum to do that.
Yesterday, whatever the reasons, was a terrific game at home for our side and as a group, we get a "F" for our support.
but who's grading us?
We all know that the support could have been better yesterday, but when someone (not you, but thinking of the 110 pricks and random facebook asshats) decides that they deserve to judge the group's efforts..... well they can get fucked.
not every game is going to be an 'A+' effort, but from where I'm standing, there are very, very few people who have earned the right to call us out on a sub-par day.
"oh those red patch fags are protesting and refusing to sing" - actually no.... we're just singing as much as everyone else.
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Priz - A good capo (and we’ve had a couple in the past) doesn’t need a drum. It’s why you don’t hear them in some of the loudest stadiums in the world – because capos have full control with what they’re doing.
The drum, although never the intention, works in an adverse effect at BMO. It further confuses those trying to remain in unison because we follow the beat rather than the capo.
The drum just adds noise and I don't think we should aim to be loud. We should aim to be succinct which in turn makes us sound a whole lot louder than we plan on being.
*Post of the year.
I disagree
1 - the capos and the drums ARE in coordination, and play off each other. Often the capo will tell the drummer what song to start, and reply on the drum to send the message out. The drum carries to 113 and 111. WHile there can be some 'capo to capo' talk from 112 to 113, it's the drum that the front of 113 looks for (and I know this because I talk with them regularly)
2 - sure some old world stadiums can reply on capos only, but those are places with decades of history behind the chants, and really aren't comparable to our situation. And many of them DO have drums, just the crowd noise is easier to pickup on the broadcast. Sure 10,000 people singing a song they've known for their entire life is going to be louder than a drum or two, but until TFC has the numbers, it's not really worth comparing.
and if you look at some of the places with 'legendary' songs like YWNA or whatever... they don't need capos at all. Everyone just knows what to sing and when to sing it - no leading required.
Last edited by Parkdale; 09-18-2011 at 08:22 AM.
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They’re supposed (operative word) to be in coordination you mean, yes. But they’re not and haven’t been for quite some time. It’s a general observation that can’t be overlooked.
Two things that need to disappear at BMO? Beer and drums. Maybe in that order.
Last edited by Blazer; 09-18-2011 at 08:26 AM.
that's your observation, and subject to your proximity.
I know that the drum and the mid-section capos (like keyman and phonzo) are very tightly coordinated. Often the capo at the front of 112 is only there for a half, or just helping to spread the chants from the mid section to the rest of the crowd. the capos for 113 are constantly in communication with the drummers in 112.
we'll just have to disagree - you say they aren't coordinated properly and haven't been for some time - I say they are better now than they have been in ages.
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It is the observation of many who frequent this board or otherwise. The same way that it is an opinion that capos need a drum. Flush never needed a drum, he was a natural. And if he thinks he needed one, he’s wrong because he had the ability to conduct/project with his body which was way more effective than some off-beat and ill-timed hammer.
Agree to disagree. I will submit however that perhaps my standard or expectation has changed since season one. Maybe we aren’t as bad as I’m making us out to be so much as I’m disappointed that our standard and quality hasn’t improved the way one would expect. Again, just my opinion.
I like the fact there was no capo in the first half. Songs should be organically-driven by on-pitch events. What is needed tho is for those in supporters sections (not just 112/113) to step up and start one. Go on try it..others will join in. Guaranteed.
115 was pretty quiet too yesterday but we still started a few in the silent first half.
I completely agree that 112/113 doesn't and shouldn't need to be cheerleaders, but as for those in 114 pointing the finger, take a close look at your own section. Most were sitting down and in all my years (since day 1) I cannot recall a chant originating in that section.
Not trying to start an arguement here with 114 and I'm sure there are good supporters in there, but we all need to lookat ourselves and ask if we SUPPORTED the team yesterday (esp in the first half). This team is turning it around and I am personally excited for next season if we continue to improve.
see you tuesday.
and yet the drum was there playing the whole time he was on the stand - the drum was there in the first year too
sure you can say he never needed a drum, BUT the drum was always there. It's like saying that Bono was such a good front man that he didn't need The Edge on guitar, but that's never been the case so it's strictly a guess.
But i agree, that we should always be improving - but understand that there are sooooo many factors that weigh us down. And as much as we like to think we're independent of the team's performance, it's foolish to think that's entirely the case.
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Cityboy - Chants at BMO can’t and won’t sound organic without a capo. Especially since the supporters and culture are still new to this thing called chanting, so a capo is critical. You can’t expect us to be organic like some stadiums in the world that have been doing this as a culture, as a passion, as a religion or right of passage if you will. There are still too many at BMO who do it for the good time, for the beer consumption, and for the new (and very different) North American experience that it has become.
Not until we collectively want to be better/sound better can we move on. Our focus for too long has been on being loud. And of course the beer has helped to facilitate that end.
I do like your vision though. It would be great to see!
^^^ i think there are chants that sound better yelled and some that sound better sung, we need to figure out which ones go with each style.
i am probably guilty of yelling too much
Sorry, I’ll rephrase.
Since season one the drum has been there yes, however it was a moot add-on with Flush on the stand. You weren’t listening for a beat or carrying a rhythm to the overly-fervent drum, instead you were vigilantly watching Flush’s precise cues – or at least some of us did. Speaking from my own vantage point, the drum wasn’t at all necessary.
In my opinion the drum is just one of many smaller symptoms of a greater illness – that being the irresponsible beer consumption during the game. We cannot expect people to naturally have an affiliation for a team without history. We don’t have the luxury of having the most committed fans in this city because we’re still working towards that end. Therefore, we can’t yet expect the masses to pour their heart and soul into something they can’t possibly care about more than the immediate entertainment value that is TFC.
They should play Hey Jude at the end of every game.
Chants, styles, capos and drums are all important pieces to discuss.
So too though is the apparent apathy towards the team and perhaps more importantly, apathy towards the group which is presenting itself in a variety of ways. The silence was a noticeable expression of this yesterday but so too is the ongoing issue of folks being late to the their seats. See the picture above. That wouldnt happen in years gone by.
We've had leadership and the group itself challenged via smoke bombs and flares, the boards have been less than civil between members, etc, etc.
This is a very important time for our group and again I hope that there will be a forum for these issues and ultimately inspirational leadership and visions will emerge.
Last edited by Pookie; 09-18-2011 at 09:06 AM.
London - There are certain chants that require a shouting component agreed. But the vast majority need to be sung properly and that in my opinion is a result of people’s state of inebriation AND because chanting is so new to north American sports and their viewers that we’re still overzealous with it.
None of us had sex for the first time with Barry Manilow playing softly, a bottle of Chardonnay chilling in a decanter, and a half-dozen rose pedals scattered across the mattress. We had a brief moment in the back of dad’s car with the sleeziest broad we could find at the party.
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Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !