I think the keeper should have been punished for his tackle on Gallardo. If the assistant ref is going to keep her flag down until after the play completes then you can't pick and choose what you are going to consider counting as part of the game and what you are going to say "well it was offside so it doesn't count". As far as i'm concerned if the flag doesn't go up the play is live until it does. If the assistant doesn't think it was offside and you score they go back and watch it and call it back if the video guy thinks it is. I mean wtf do we need the assistant for anymore? You could just let the play go and review it because every call they make is getting reviewed anyway. I guess you need somebody to say the ball went out or something but this is getting ridiculous.
I can live with all of the bullshit if you can get a handle on what the rules are but as someone mentioned Gallardo could have suffered a broken leg or ligament damage from a tackle like that. It was during live play before a flag went up or a whistle blew. It's a card for me regardless of the offside call ... and I think it's a straight red.
It will be interesting to see if the league hands punishment after the fact to the keeper.
I’d like to understand how this played out. The AR didn’t flag right away because they are too not to because they have VAR. They got it wrong as it is clear that it was onside. Di they actually go to VAR on that call? Did VAR confirm the AR’s decision? Or was it skipped altogether?
They are going to give this at least 3 years - the attempt is a NCAA BB tourney style do it quick thing. They WANT upsets. They hope to have coverage of these 3 non-final rounds bleed into coverage of the regular season.
I think that if anything they will be expanding the playoffs/cup to 16.
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About the foul - I think it was at most a yellow. We see cynical defender tackles like that all the time.
You we could fine tune the defensive parts of his game and a few other things he’d be great in a midfield 3. Regardless, I like how he’s improved over the past while. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him cement a role in the at some point, be that super sub or as a midfield rotation player.
Last edited by Bushmancan; 09-02-2019 at 12:50 PM.
Yep exactly
I appreciate hustle like most, Toronto enjoys its players that work hard but he's entering his mid 20s and I doubt he's gonna be able to fine tune much more. He's valuable in a depth sense but no way is he a starter. Gallardo has speed, technique, age and experience. Suspect if you asked him to start popping shots from afar he would and could. Do agree we need to take shots way further out. Gallardo also adds alot to your floundering counter attack game
In the Premier League they are treating offside as a fact - no clear and obvious test, only “is he offside”. Applied here it has to be no. And it’s at least a potential red on the goalie, both for the denied scoring chance and the brutal tackle, so should have been reviewed for certain.
I've been thinking over the blown offside call and I still don't understand the sequence.
The sideline ref believes it to be offside, but since the league, due to the presence of VAR, instructs refs not to raise the flag on marginal calls, she does not.
The play continues. As such the players on the field can only continue play in the belief it is a live ball. The keeper has a brain fart and commits DOGSO.
But now the ref raises her flag to show that in fact she believed it to be offside earlier on.
Let's assume the potential DOGSO doesn't occur and Gallardo rounds the keeper and scores. Does the ref raise her flag then? Or does VAR take over at that point and say yeah it was offside? If it's VAR in this scenario, then why does VAR not kick in for the DOGSO? It is a red card offense.
I know every play is checked, but I mean the VAR telling the centre ref to review it. By raising her flag, does she prevent VAR from kicking in since everything after the offside doesn't exist?
It almost feels like you need some sort of delayed penalty call like in hockey.
I agree with your points. If we have VAR, that has to be reviewed. Red for DOGsO and red for tackle as well. TV replays showed it was not offside. So therefore referee needs to VAR it.
but for me, that also is testament that we would be better off without VAR in the first place. She raises the flag. End of.
It was reviewed. As is every play that could be a possible red card. The fact they didn't tell the ref to have a look doesn't mean there was no review. Just means the conclusion they came to is not something people in here agree with.
an interesting occurrence has occurred in recent TFC away games.
DC United game, refereeing was atrocious cost TFC 2 points
NYRB game Jozy was called offside on a TFC goal, a very questionable offside
and now this offside play in the New England cost TFC 2 points.
you reverse even one of these events and TFC has a very good shot at 4th place in the playoffs
reverse them all and TFC guaranteed 4th or higher
random coincidence or is something else going on here?
what is the probability that all of these 3 recent events happen by purely random chance to TFC?
Last edited by stevep; 09-03-2019 at 10:47 AM.
I did a little research and red vs yellow is kind of skewed because of the offside error. ( I do not know what the official rules are for offenses in VAR delays) But even still, it may or may not be a DOGsO straight red, unless we are in agreement that it was vicious and dangerous tackle (i do) or is the opinion that was he playing the ball and missed outside the penalty area. See link http://proreferees.com/2017/04/12/pl...k-2017-week-6/
Anyways, interesting precedent that leagues not just MLS need to figure out.
Every play is reviewed by VAR for possible red - that's what they sit there and do all game long. They are actually reviewing every play to see if something is worth going back to. In theory, they can retroactively give a red in the 90th minute for a play in the 1st. This is a decent article on the process. I still think they need to do what Rugby & cricket do and make the process from when a check is called for live to air - in those sports, the onfield decides if they need help - football is trying to do it from an outside perspective saying "Hey, we need to look at that."
https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-le...e-works-in-mls
Last edited by OgtheDim; 09-03-2019 at 11:17 AM.
OK, so now i am getting into it, for anyone else interested.... https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/kh...gyna8juxw3.pdf. Page 134 . Sorry for the length
There are a couple of clear points... smaller text are right out of the handbook
1) Only the referee can initiate a ‘review’; the VAR (and other match officials) can only recommend a ‘review’ to the referee. The final decision is always taken by the refer
2) If play continues after an incident which is then reviewed, any disciplinary action taken/required during the post-incident period is not cancelled, even if the original decision is changed (except a caution/sendoff for stopping a promising attack or DOGSO).
3) The referee may receive assistance from the VAR only in relation to four categories of match-changing decisions/incidents. In all these situations, the VAR is only used after the referee has made a (first/original) decision (including allowing play to continue), or if a serious incident is missed/not seen by the match officials.
The referee`s original decision will not be changed unless there was a ‘clear and obvious error’ (this includes any decision made by the referee based on information from another match official e.g. offside).
The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are:
A) Goal/no goal (handball, foul, etc.)
An offence by the team that scored the goal in the attacking phase that ended with the scoring of a goal, including
• offense by the attacking team in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, etc.)
• offside: position and offence
• ball out of play prior to the goal
• goal/no goal decisions
B) Penalty kick/no penalty kick
• penalty kick incorrectly awarded
• penalty kick offence not penalised
• location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
• offence by the attacking team in the build-up to the penalty incident
• ball out of play prior to the incident
• offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick
• encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in a play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper
C) Direcct red cards (not second yellow card/caution)
• DOGSO (especially position of offence and positions of other players)
• serious foul play (or reckless challenge)
• violent conduct, biting or spitting at another person
• using offensive, insulting or abusive gestures
D) Mistaken Identify (red or yellow cards)
• If the referee penalises an offence and then gives the wrong player from the offending (penalised) team a yellow or red card, the identity of the offender can be reviewed; the actual offence itself cannot be reviewed unless it relates to a goal, penalty incident or direct red card.
But the big thing i found was that the referee according to procedures:
Original Decision
• The referee and other (including any disciplinary action) as if there was no VAR (except for a ‘missed’ incident)
Critical miss, the play by Turner (the keeper) should not have been ignored (it is right in the rules), at minimum a yellow card should have been applied. The ref and VAR can skate through this on a technicality, they didn't believe it was a DOGsO or serious foul (or reckless challenge) but it is inexcusable that Turner didn't get a yellow.
Whats more and unless I am getting this completely wrong (not MLS Specific handbook), this is where I am pissed at our commentators and our on-field team management at a minimum.
They should know this or in real time have looked up the rules. I did a 15 minute google search. They focussed on the No Call Offside and not the serious foul on Gallardo by Turner, the play was still live and therefor the offense should have been called.
I am done now.... ;-)
COYRs
Last edited by Bushmancan; 09-03-2019 at 11:55 AM.