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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    That's tomorrow
    Clearly I have no idea what day it is

  2. #4232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    Interesting lineup - is this indicative of Osorio being used as a temporary 10? I'm also surprised that we're not seeing some of our youngsters.
    I don't know but this is likely the starting lineup v Panama. Its a week from today...

  3. #4233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuushalinsky View Post
    Interesting lineup - is this indicative of Osorio being used as a temporary 10? I'm also surprised that we're not seeing some of our youngsters.
    the youngsters played a nil nil game with a mex team earlier today

  4. #4234
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    Toronto FC
    Toronto FC
    @torontofc
    Goal!

    Right off the jump Osorio finishes off a ball from DeLeon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Learning all sorts of new things today


    this is fascinating information
    1) this would explain the Giovinco buyout, the 3M was most likely what was left on his contract
    2) the genk deal is a done deal, they just have to buy out whatever is left on his contract which is not much

    I am understanding this correctly?

  6. #4236
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    this is fascinating information
    1) this would explain the Giovinco buyout, the 3M was most likely what was left on his contract
    2) the genk deal is a done deal, they just have to buy out whatever is left on his contract which is not much

    I am understanding this correctly?
    I don't think this had much to do with Seba, and P's contract is apparently to 2021. Not sure what its worth though

  7. #4237
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevep View Post
    this is fascinating information
    1) this would explain the Giovinco buyout, the 3M was most likely what was left on his contract
    2) the genk deal is a done deal, they just have to buy out whatever is left on his contract which is not much

    I am understanding this correctly?
    If I recall, this would be used as a contract dissolution and MLS doesn't look to kindly to that.

  8. #4238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Clearly I have no idea what day it is
    This month is going by crazy fast.
    Last edited by Canary10; 02-13-2019 at 09:34 AM.

  9. #4239
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    50’ Goal! Terrence Boyd from a DeLeon cross. #TFCLive | #TORvCOL | 2-0




  10. #4240
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    Quote Originally Posted by OgtheDim View Post
    Learning all sorts of new things today


    It bears explaining as this post seems to have generated some confusion.

    The player (Pozuelo) is in his rights to unilaterally terminate his contract. However MLS strictly prohibits its franchises from offering contracts to players who have done this. Thus, if he were to terminate his contract, China would be his only option.

    This has all the makings of a game of chicken between Genk and Pozuelo. Genk is assuming that the player would prefer to come to Toronto and is unlikely to close the door to MLS at this point in his career, the Chinese offer being nothing more than a bargaining chip. On the other hand this transfer sage could turn into a distraction in the locker room and the club could be throwing away €6m.

    At this point it could go either way, will be interesting to see which side flinches first.
    Last edited by jasper; 02-12-2019 at 08:57 PM.

  11. #4241
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    Anyone know why mls would put this can't sign a buyout rule in place?

  12. #4242
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafsman View Post
    Anyone know why mls would put this can't sign a buyout rule in place?
    MLS is a relatively young league trying to establish its footprint in world football...shaking the tree and pissing off other leagues and teams is not what you want to do on the way up.

  13. #4243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canary10 View Post
    Do we really want a guy who is leaving a team in the middle of a championship run with European Champions League football on the line?

    I know some will say it's no different than what Giovinco did, but at least he left in the close season, without those stakes.

    I would question this guy's character to do that.
    Juve released Seba from his contract... if they didn’t he would have come in June

  14. #4244
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    So sounds like it's a negotiation for materially more than 8M euros.

    https://www.voetbalprimeur.be/nieuws...-hoog-in-.html

    Genk-chairman Croonen gives update about Pozuelo: '' I estimate that chance high ''

    Published: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 at 11:20

    Alejandro Pozuelo lives on with Racing Genk, now the Limburgers do not want him to go to the Canadian Toronto FC. Pozuelo even threatens breach of contract . Despite the crack in marriage, Pozuelo was included in the core for the Europa League match with Slavia Prague (1 / 16th finals). Genk chairman Peter Croonen gave an update before departure.
    Croonen is obviously unhappy with all the fuss. "The situation is obviously not nice. I think everyone would have wanted it differently. But the situation is how she is and regrettably belongs to football. Our group is mature enough to deal with this, but of course this should not take too long, '' Het Laatste Nieuws commented Wednesday morning.
    According to Croonen, the ball is now in the Toronto camp. '' We have made clear to Toronto what our position is, but nothing has been heard yet. I suspect that their response will now be the next step. "
    Good feeling
    Whether the commotion has a positive approach? Croonen still has good hope. '' If Alejandro thinks up and decides to stay until the summer, we will be very happy and close him again. I estimate that chance high. In the other case, we will exhaust our rights. "
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  15. #4245
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    I think we now see pretty clearly the outlines of what the argument actually is.

    It's not about leaving after February 1, he clearly can do that. But sometimes an agreement is not quite what it seems. Especially in foreign countries where you don’t maybe totally understand the system.

    Pozuelo gave his word that he would stay, but didn’t put it in writing. He freely admits this (I think he did it in front of the media) but says he did it under duress. The legal part is that it seems that quite a few elements of football life in Belgium are governed by “gentlemen's agreements”. Genk are threatening to go to court to enforce the handshake, and the argument is at least strong enough that MLS/TFC/Pozo aren’t rushing to court to enforce the release clause.

    This cannot be a happy moment for Manning. A lot of carnage here, a player, team, maybe an entire league in turmoil, which he can only solve by going back to his board with his tail between his legs to ask for 12M euros or whatever. If he backs away that's bad for MLS, this is a big mess to cause for nothing. If he asks the Board to pay up, that is a major black eye for him and Curtis.

    MLS/TFC screwed up. They have been handed an expensive lesson in operating solo in far away places. By not negotiating with the team they made themselves vulnerable to this.

    Someone else pointed this out first, but MLS really has to own a lot of the blame for this, and maybe they can put up the majority of the incremental fee required to get this done.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-13-2019 at 08:11 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

  16. #4246
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    http://www.infiernorojo.com/independ...mpression=true

    Bit of a delay in the transfer of Menendez. Still training with Independiente. Loan is agreed for 150k with roughly 3M purchase option. Delay is a result of a transfer tax that neither side wants to pay. Hopeful it'll be done in a few more days (Google translated)
    Last edited by DinamoTFC; 02-13-2019 at 08:45 AM.

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    ‘De wet van ‘78’ is a law in Belgium that allows athletes to essentially buyout their contract. If Alejandro Pozuelo threatens to use the law, Genk will have no other choice but to sell to Toronto.Pozuelo is on €1m a year
    and has a contract until 2022.

    Genk either take the €8m NET which is being offered by Toronto FC or Pozuelo pays the club roughly €2,5m to buyout his contract.


  18. #4248
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    TFC is not going to pay 12 million euro and Manning is not going to go to the board with his "tail between his legs."

    If Genk won't negotiate or there if there is not a speedy legal resolution they'll just move on to their second choice player. It's that simple.

    They must really like this guy, many teams would have moved on already.

  19. #4249
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    The legal part is that it seems that quite a few elements of football life in Belgium are governed by “gentlemen's agreements”. Genk are threatening to go to court to enforce the handshake, and the argument is at least strong enough that MLS/TFC/Pozo aren’t rushing to court to enforce the release clause.
    I disagree with this part of the analysis. I don't think Genk are threatening anything - few people rush to court. Labour law in Europe (not sure about Belgium specifically) is heavily tilted in the employee's favour. His comments about signing under duress has already set out his position. Genk are posturing to get some more money. I don't think it works in anyone's favour to have this situation get ugly. Imagine TFC refusing to transfer Giovinco to KSA.

    In fact, in contrast to what many have said above, if they are willing to blow up this deal for him and still expect him to perform, then that says something about his character.

  20. #4250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    TFC is not going to pay 12 million euro and Manning is not going to go to the board with his "tail between his legs."

    If Genk won't negotiate or there if there is not a speedy legal resolution they'll just move on to their second choice player. It's that simple.

    They must really like this guy, many teams would have moved on already.
    We might have moved on. We don't really know.

  21. #4251
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonO View Post
    I disagree with this part of the analysis. I don't think Genk are threatening anything - few people rush to court. Labour law in Europe (not sure about Belgium specifically) is heavily tilted in the employee's favour. His comments about signing under duress has already set out his position. Genk are posturing to get some more money. I don't think it works in anyone's favour to have this situation get ugly. Imagine TFC refusing to transfer Giovinco to KSA.

    In fact, in contrast to what many have said above, if they are willing to blow up this deal for him and still expect him to perform, then that says something about his character.
    Problem with this argument is that the deal would already have happened if that were true. TFC/Pozo would have triggered the release clause days ago. So what would your reasoning be for why they haven’t done that?

    Also I can imagine TFC saying no to Gio/Saudi. Chelsea did that to Diego Costa when he tried to force a transfer to Atletico Madrid and Costa went home for months before it got sorted.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-13-2019 at 09:54 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Problem with this argument is that the deal would already have happened if that were true. TFC/Pozo would have triggered the release clause days ago. So what would your reasoning be for why they haven’t done that?
    I think I read a report posted here (can't be arsed to look back for it) that said TFC/MLS had met the release clause, but that Genk were disputing the validity of the release clause. I thought this was the crux of the dispute.

  23. #4253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Problem with this argument is that the deal would already have happened if that were true. TFC/Pozo would have triggered the release clause days ago. So what would your reasoning be for why they haven’t done that?
    Genk claiming that Poz signed an agreement in January saying he would stay through the winter window and leave in the summer. Poz & his agent say he signed nothing and are asking Genk to make the alleged agreement public. Since they requested it be made public, Genk has gone silent. Could be posturing but Genk does look fishy in all this.

    Bottom line, if Genk screw this for Poz and we go after 'target B' then they are pretty stupid and are going to be stuck with a very unhappy player and they can expect to be sued in a European court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redskiesatnight View Post
    I think I read a report posted here (can't be arsed to look back for it) that said TFC/MLS had met the release clause, but that Genk were disputing the validity of the release clause. I thought this was the crux of the dispute.
    That is the same thing I am saying, more or less.

    Let me rephrase: TFC would have to go to court to enforce the release clause, which they haven’t done yet. Why they haven't done that yet is a mystery. A contract is a contract, right? At least in theory...

    My post above is a speculation about why TFC are a bit stuck right now.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    Problem with this argument is that the deal would already have happened if that were true. TFC/Pozo would have triggered the release clause days ago. So what would your reasoning be for why they haven’t done that?
    Saw this in the non-TFC thread, wondered if it might apply:
    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    Point being made on twitter by some Impact supporters they just paid $150k for an international spot while a US team or two just reduced their requirements with getting green cards issued. Canada at a disadvantage given the permit seems to take much longer or there’s a higher bar for what MLS recognizes. Can’t say I disagree. Kinda bullshit

  26. #4256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Genk claiming that Poz signed an agreement in January saying he would stay through the winter window and leave in the summer. Poz & his agent say he signed nothing and are asking Genk to make the alleged agreement public. Since they requested it be made public, Genk has gone silent. Could be posturing but Genk does look fishy in all this.

    Bottom line, if Genk screw this for Poz and we go after 'target B' then they are pretty stupid and are going to be stuck with a very unhappy player and they can expect to be sued in a European court.
    Why would Genk want to keep a player from leaving that doesn't want to be there? I'd never want someone on my team that did not want to be here, no matter the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by defoe View Post
    why would genk want to keep a player from leaving that doesn't want to be there? I'd never want someone on my team that did not want to be here, no matter the situation.
    hr 101

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    I am not sure how it can be claimed TFC/MLS screwed up here. They are pursuing an asset they want and that will improve their corporation. They will and should use any legal tactic they should to acquire this asset. If this deal falls through then they likely have a plan B. If they regularly fail in acquiring their asset then I see that as screwing up.

    Just like in soccer, in business you need to be willing to be willing to strike your rivals even if it seems a grey area. How many goals have TFC gotten when a rival player is hurt on the ground and TFC are on the break and do not stop and end up scoring. How many penalties have been won by exaggerating a tackle. At the top level of any competition people are willing to push the boundary of any rules to get ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffian View Post
    I am not sure how it can be claimed TFC/MLS screwed up here. They are pursuing an asset they want and that will improve their corporation. They will and should use any legal tactic they should to acquire this asset. If this deal falls through then they likely have a plan B. If they regularly fail in acquiring their asset then I see that as screwing up.

    Just like in soccer, in business you need to be willing to be willing to strike your rivals even if it seems a grey area. How many goals have TFC gotten when a rival player is hurt on the ground and TFC are on the break and do not stop and end up scoring. How many penalties have been won by exaggerating a tackle. At the top level of any competition people are willing to push the boundary of any rules to get ahead.
    I am speculating, to be clear.

    The “screw up” would be internal. Manning would have had to go to the MLSE Board on this, and if he didn’t capture the legal risk or the possibility of having the price rise in that meeting, he will have egg all over his face.

    We wouldn’t see it, but do not underestimate the implications of something like that in corporate environments. They can really affect the amount of rope provided by the Board to the people involved, and can have career implications.

    (Boards are really funny things, and if you haven’t been exposed to them, it is hard to understand this. You just cannot go back on the same deal at a higher price for unforeseen reasons, it causes everyone to question your competence. The expectations of a CEO are very high on points like this.)

    By the way, if they get the player for 9M euros, that is fine. People would understand that. There are shades of grey here.

    If this falls through and we just go to Plan B, that is in fact a royal screw up, very bad for MLS, and a little bad for TFC. We would have messed with an entire league for nothing. People will not forget it for years.

    So I think we have to get the player. There is no Plan B. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by ensco; 02-13-2019 at 10:47 AM.
    “What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by ensco View Post
    TFC would have to go to court to enforce the release clause.
    They wouldn't be the ones to go to court for this. This is the misunderstanding. We met the buyout and we're done. The people going to court against Genk would be Poz and his agent as they have already threatened. We just sit back and either wait or move on. Depends what our lawyers are advising Manning as they would know more about this situation legally.

    This is why we're stuck in a way. We want this player badly so we're letting him and his agent do their thing so this can be resolved. We're not going to court to sue Genk for this. That's not how these things go. The player can because he is being denied an opportunity for advancement by his employer and the Euro socialist courts look very negatively on this type of situation. Genk does not want this because they will lose but I am sure Poz + agent don't want it either because it will drag this out and ruin any chance for him to join TFC. Also it may make him slightly less desirable to sign if he gets branded a trouble maker or contractually problematic if he drags this into the courts.
    Last edited by Ultra & Proud; 02-13-2019 at 10:52 AM.

 

 

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