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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Might as well put someone like the club talisman in there who you know isn't looking to ruffle feathers.
    But what would the final damage be if say we got Dichio as manager and we totally, world class level tanked. Like how we did when Vanney was appointed?

    We'd lose players (probably Seba), lose fans, lose ticket sales, and maybe taint Dichio forever. Or it could be great but I'd rather not risk things at this stage. Proven upgrade at manager or keep Vanney.

  2. #362
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    Yeah I agree with you, its pointless to fire them if you don't have the permanent replacement ready.

  3. #363
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    So many people, including the media, believe that Jozy needs to be there for Seba to play his best game, and ultimately for TFC's success - I'm waiting for his return more than anybody else. I have a suspicion that it'll make no difference to results.

  4. #364
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    ^ that's the x-factor right there. If Altidore can get in form this thing starts to look salvageable.

    Not to dismiss Hamitlon, I think he's earned the backup spot.

  5. #365
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    Fan 590 TFC blog discussion with Vanney. Go to around the 18th minute mark.

    Would not recommend people listen that are strongly against Vanney - you will throw things.

    http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/efw/t...tin-Morrow.mp3


    Discusses the subs - he had his reasons but...sounds less then convinced himself afterwards.

  6. #366
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    I used to read every snippet of TFC news, and listen to almost every TFC interview. A number of years ago, I stopped listening. I can't remember during which phase of disappointment that was. I just can't do it anymore, all the interviews give me stomach aches (at least).

  7. #367
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    Fire Vanney now and that means that the club has given up on the season and they just want to ride it out as best as they can.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Fire Vanney now and that means that the club has given up on the season and they just want to ride it out as best as they can.
    Disagree, I think if u fire Vanney now ur trying to salvage the season. Fire Vanney in September and then we've given up.

  9. #369
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    As much as I want to pin everything on Vanney, the players must be held accountable for their display as well.... IMO if we fire Vanney without a suitable replacement we would be writing off this year. We have only had all 3 DP on the pitch for if I remember correctly 5 games. In those 5 games we are 3-1-1. The way the league is structured you have two options: 3 DP's with questionable depth (unless you are LA) or 1-2 DP's and more depth. Injuries happen to all teams, but if someone can point to a team that has lost 4 key starters and they continue to win and dominate as we want.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Disagree, I think if u fire Vanney now ur trying to salvage the season. Fire Vanney in September and then we've given up.
    Don't forget the replacement comes with the built-in excuse for failure!!!
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    I noticed on the wikipedia page (not a great source I know) they listed Vanney's salary as $120k per year. I can only hope this isn't true, otherwise it stands an a monument to ham-fisted frugality. Kreis was reportedly the highest paid coach at a million a year, Porter 400k, Arena / Sigi very well paid also.

    Spending that little on management is just asking to fail.

  12. #372
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    That wikipedia page has been hacked up a lot after this weekend - Molinaro tweeted about it this morning.

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    I'm certain i've read somewhere he's in 300/400k range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    I'm certain i've read somewhere he's in 300/400k range.
    If that is true you have to wonder what he was paid at his peak as a player. Not that you have to make more as a player to be a good coach but it would be ironic if he is making more money now than as a pro player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamp Berg View Post
    If that is true you have to wonder what he was paid at his peak as a player. Not that you have to make more as a player to be a good coach but it would be ironic if he is making more money now than as a pro player.
    According to the Players Union, he was on 236k at DC in 2007 and 91k at LA in 2008. Salary figures only go back as far as 2007.

    He had a year or two in France, so i'd figure that'd be in the 200-400k range too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Areathrasher View Post
    According to the Players Union, he was on 236k at DC in 2007 and 91k at LA in 2008. Salary figures only go back as far as 2007.

    He had a year or two in France, so i'd figure that'd be in the 200-400k range too.
    But that's playing days, no? It's not necessary progressive from that point onward. I assume you guys are right, 120k just seems totally out of whack.

    In context a lot of top NCAA guys clear 200 and have loads more job security... MLS still not getting the best candidates IMO. Not that I would describe that as a Vanney-specific problem.

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    In my opinion we should stick with Vanney to the end of the season. I agree with Portu, if we're going to do it, it has to be right now. If we wait another 4-5 games we're at the give up point. Unless there is a no brainer coach ready to step in tomorrow - Like Kreis (and I think he is probably the only one not currently in a job that is in that category) - then stick. We so often get pushed into a coaching change. I'd rather see it done with a good, deliberative process for once. Take the close season to do that.

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    I don't think TFC FO is going to fire Vanney anytime soon. TFC is still in 5th in the East (admittly a low bar) and in playoff spot. Until things go really spirally downwards, Vanney's job is safe.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

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  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag futbol View Post
    But that's playing days, no? It's not necessary progressive from that point onward. I assume you guys are right, 120k just seems totally out of whack.

    In context a lot of top NCAA guys clear 200 and have loads more job security... MLS still not getting the best candidates IMO. Not that I would describe that as a Vanney-specific problem.
    Yea, Kamp was just wondering about his playing days. So I looked up the Union site. That's all.

    He was an assistant gm and technical director for the academy before getting the coaching gig. His original role was probably in the 100-150k range.

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by portu View Post
    Disagree, I think if u fire Vanney now ur trying to salvage the season. Fire Vanney in September and then we've given up.
    This is what people said about firing Aron Winter so many moons ago - do you actually believe Winter would've been worse than Rick Flair a.k.a. Paul Marinier.

    Do people actually believe someone in the TFC system can step in and do a better job than Vanney? Where is the proof that we have a guy who can step in and "turn" this club around with about half a season left.

    It would be different if you said there was a manager that has a proven track record of success in MLS and has turn teams around in the past who is ready to step in now and take over. Then I say do it, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.

    Take any team in the MLS and remove 4 of their key starters from right down the middle of the pitch - and see how they fair.

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    They'd never say it publicly but at the point you replace the September they've already given up on the season. It's just a matter of giving the new guy a running start for the next year.

    That said, I think the way they ran the process last time was rediculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    This is what people said about firing Aron Winter so many moons ago - do you actually believe Winter would've been worse than Rick Flair a.k.a. Paul Marinier.
    Same end result of failure but at least trying to play better football and using the best players available with Winter.

    Do people actually believe someone in the TFC system can step in and do a better job than Vanney? Where is the proof that we have a guy who can step in and "turn" this club around with about half a season left.
    No. Definitely not. No one in the system to step in.

    It would be different if you said there was a manager that has a proven track record of success in MLS and has turn teams around in the past who is ready to step in now and take over. Then I say do it, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.
    Only one is Kreis. He is the only one that could be appointed to possibly salvage the season. He has the experience, came from the same RSL system as Vanney and works in a similar manner. He could step in and have a higher chance than anyone else of improving our team in the second half. Any other good experienced MLS managers (Arena, Sigi, Petke) will bring a bit of upheaval/chaos and take time to get used to our set up, our roster, and change/alter our system and that might ruin us heading into the fall.

    Take any team in the MLS and remove 4 of their key starters from right down the middle of the pitch - and see how they fair.
    Also true and the one thing about Vanney I can credit him for is that we can switch out players and play the same style and not implode and concede our tradition assload of goals. Of course it's at the expense of offense but that is an easier fix than the opposite. I will even point to the competitiveness of the B team we've been putting out there. Yes, results are sketchy and are all grind out results but when in our history could you have any major injuries and still get results? Gernerally losing one key player meant we were going back to getting bombed for a while. I credit Vanney for that. He's helped the squad, younger guys mainly, grow but is that enough? For me, Vanney overall has done well this year but I still don't think he's the guy to get the team to the next level. When/if a real playoff run happens, I think he is not up to the task of matching up with an experienced, crafty manager.

  23. #383
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    one question

    where is big Bill in all this?

    I'm losing faith and need to be preached

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra & Proud View Post
    Same end result of failure but at least trying to play better football and using the best players available with Winter.



    No. Definitely not. No one in the system to step in.



    Only one is Kreis. He is the only one that could be appointed to possibly salvage the season. He has the experience, came from the same RSL system as Vanney and works in a similar manner. He could step in and have a higher chance than anyone else of improving our team in the second half. Any other good experienced MLS managers (Arena, Sigi, Petke) will bring a bit of upheaval/chaos and take time to get used to our set up, our roster, and change/alter our system and that might ruin us heading into the fall.



    Also true and the one thing about Vanney I can credit him for is that we can switch out players and play the same style and not implode and concede our tradition assload of goals. Of course it's at the expense of offense but that is an easier fix than the opposite. I will even point to the competitiveness of the B team we've been putting out there. Yes, results are sketchy and are all grind out results but when in our history could you have any major injuries and still get results? Gernerally losing one key player meant we were going back to getting bombed for a while. I credit Vanney for that. He's helped the squad, younger guys mainly, grow but is that enough? For me, Vanney overall has done well this year but I still don't think he's the guy to get the team to the next level. When/if a real playoff run happens, I think he is not up to the task of matching up with an experienced, crafty manager.
    Vanney should have been giving some better minutes to a back up keepr.
    Vanney is using the youngsters out of necessity not choice.
    Hamilton should have been involved much earlier in the season if he was truly the backup choice.
    Giovinco could be better utilized
    Vanney's subs are questionable at best.


    Hes doing some things right, but hes doing quite a bit wrong. There is no cap on manager, get the best damn one out there

  25. #385
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    Does anyone think a good coach should have (as in needs) the rest of the year to prepare for next season? I know it's a nice thing for an incoming coach to have this grace period but I. Don't. Like it.
    FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER

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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Ronaldo View Post

    a) Vanney should have been giving some better minutes to a back up keepr.
    b) Vanney is using the youngsters out of necessity not choice.
    c) Hamilton should have been involved much earlier in the season if he was truly the backup choice.
    d) Giovinco could be better utilized
    e) Vanney's subs are questionable at best.
    I've lettered these to reference easier

    a) The only real chance was the cup run where we went with Irwin exclusive. Argued either way but nobody complained at the time.
    b) Apart from Zavleta, who now has the starters spot, and the rotating crew of Endoh and Delgado and if you can still count him as a youngster, Osorio
    c) Hamilton wasn't the backup choice - it was Babouli who was involved. Hamilton grabbed that spot through his play in and after the VCup. We were all saying he wasn't very good only 3 months ago.
    d) How? Lots of people say Giovinco should be played out left or as an AM. He's not going to do that and his defensive capabilities are limited. He's a two man forward playing off of somebody.
    e) ACTUALLY, until the SJE game, pretty much everybody was saying how the subs were working out fine. And Vanney himself gave the rationale for the subs in San Jose, saying he would probably do that differently now.

  27. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    So many people, including the media, believe that Jozy needs to be there for Seba to play his best game, and ultimately for TFC's success - I'm waiting for his return more than anybody else. I have a suspicion that it'll make no difference to results.
    Jozy drags 2-3 defenders with him - that's 2-3 less guys Gio has to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Jozy drags 2-3 defenders with him - that's 2-3 less guys Gio has to deal with.
    Giovinco is actually pretty close to what he produced goals and assist wise first half this season to first half last season, and that's with more conservative style of this season.

    Altidore may not have been scoring, but he does open up more spaces for Giovinco to do his thing. Now only if Giovinco can score... It's so frustrating to see Giovinco being the reincarnation of Pablo Vitti with all those near misses.
    “Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.

    I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’

    And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”

    -Eduardo Galeano

  29. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabbronies View Post
    Jozy drags 2-3 defenders with him - that's 2-3 less guys Gio has to deal with.
    Absolutely. Hamilton doesn't drag defenders with him - no one views him as dangerous. Jozy, he's dangerous. He can (doesn't often, but he can) score.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fort York Redcoat View Post
    Does anyone think a good coach should have (as in needs) the rest of the year to prepare for next season? I know it's a nice thing for an incoming coach to have this grace period but I. Don't. Like it.
    That's what pre-season is for.
    Road Games:
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