No, the topic is motivation, not the method. Winter gave them motivation. If you say they already had motivation, well then he gave them more. It's a stupid thing to do. If they weren't already motivated, they sure are now.
And history has examples of teams that said they were going to win and did not. It puts pressure on the team making the claim and it gives incentive to the other team. Your example is poor because it does not speak to motivation, it speaks to a team's confidence, which this team has been lacking for some time. The Montreal win may have undone some of that lack of confidence, but they will need more than a single win to get back full confidence.History also has examples of teams who found the balls to stay "we're going to win" and then did so. Pretty cool eh?
Of course it is not surprising that you overlook one glaring fact.You give it too much credit, as if it's proven fact. Choose to ignore one side of the happenings and buy into the other, much like you do with "we're lucky when we win" and "not unlucky when we lose". lolz.
When a team wins 1 out of a dozen games. That 1 single win looks like an aberration. It's a statistical anomaly. Because it is a departure from the trend.
When a team wins consistently, it ceases to be the exception and starts becoming like the rule. Luck is generally ruled out. Is TFC in this category? Not even close.
However, when a team is consistently losing, anomalies such as "luck" are discounted. Because "bad luck" doesn't happen to good teams over multiple games and multiple months.
The fact that Toronto has been losing signficantly more than winning is exactly why "good luck" and "bad luck" cannot be equated as having similar impacts on either side of the win column. I know people try to do so, but trend analysis say it is much more structural issue than it is an intangible one.
Well...I was gonna come in this thread and mention a couple of things I noticed about Vancouver from the last couple times I watched them play. Unfortunately this pre game thread doesn't seem like the appropriate place. Ah well.....back to Winter. One person already mentioned this but this kind of Winter comment got people riled up prior to the montreal game and it worked out ok. How'd the white board material work out for Montreal?
LOL
I'll be back when you guys feel like talking about the actual upcoming match.
Line up .....
--------------------------Kocic----------------------------
Hall---------Henry----------------Canm-------------Morgan
------------deguz---------------Fings-------------------
-----------------------Avila------------------------------
Lambe--------------Johnson----------------------Plata
Subs:
Roberts
Soolsma
Koev
Aceval
Dunfield
Silva
keep the line up the same with the exception of Eckersly being suspended (red card). Soolsma can be used for sure hes very effective late in games. Koev late game sub,
maybe you can add williams to that list as a late game sub heard hes in full training.
On paper, I do think Vancouver should win. Practically every position Vancouver seems to win, and Rennie has them playing some sort of hybrid defensive 4-3-3/4-5-1/4-2-3-1 well. Their league record speaks for themselves, plus with a lot of their injured players back, Vancouver has depth.
TFC might have parity at CM, and if JDG and Frings again play their balls off to cut off passes between Vancouver defence and attackers, TFC might squeak a win in BC place. If TFC loses midfield battle, esp allowing Camilo and Chiumiento space to work their magic, it's going to be a long night for TFC. Gotta keep up the high pressure and physical play, even if TFC gets some yellows.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
^ We have the ability to beat them. If we play like we played against Montreal on Wednesday. If we play the way we play in most MLS games. Forget it.
I am not trying to be an ass, but Winter coaching is a topic in regard to the upcoming match, it is a fundamental question, that one can not get away when one talks about TFC on the pitch.
Seriously, if this was Milan, would you think that he would still be around? Why is the standard different for TFC. Sure Milan is a big squad, but it is all relative, Milan plays against Juve and Napoli, TFC play against Columbus and New York. Results matter.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Gonna call BS on this justification. By that rationalization, every thread about TFC is eligible to be derailed into another conversation about Aron Winter.
We already have threads for discussing Aron Winter, and his future with our team. This thread is about dicussing the upcoming game - that does not include every tangentially related topic, and will be moderated as such. People are sick of the back and forth about Winter seeping into every thread.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
2-0, how's that for stats?
Were the 2001 New England Patriots the best team in the NFL? No, they just won the championship. There's billions of examples of this in sport. The Champions may not always be the best team, WHY DO YOU CARE IF OUR CLUB IS HOLDING THE TROPHY?
Are Chelsea and Bayern TRULY the best clubs in Europe? One will hoist the UEFA CL Cup tho, perhaps their supports should be pissed off about it.
Anyways, I'll go ahead and enjoy this 1st leg and TFC winning another Canadian Championship while you piss and moan that Montreal and Vancouver are better sides and deserve it more.....on a Toronto message board no less. Feel free to post more threads about how unhappy you are, they totally make sense when you cry in favour of our bloody rivals.
Good grief this kind of posting is tired.
So now you're dictating to me, what I was talking about. Srs?
LOL, they are motivated, any idiot knows this. Perhaps if Winter repeated himself many times over they'd score a billion goals because they'd have mountains more of motivation. Perhaps all managers should buy massive billboards in the lockerroom and post every speck of motivation on the planet and make their players perform like superheroes! Apparently motivation can be stacked to unlimited levels!If you say they already had motivation, well then he gave them more. It's a stupid thing to do. If they weren't already motivated, they sure are now.
.And history has examples of teams that said they were going to win and did not. It puts pressure on the team making the claim and it gives incentive to the other team
So in summary. Teams have claimed they'd win, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. Teams have claimed they were the dogs, sometimes they'd win, sometimes they didn't. Thanks for coming out with this rocker of a point.
You spend too much time playing math and not enough time playing sports. How about in baseball, when the Colorado Rockies had 120 some odd games to say they were an X caliber team...then decided to win for a month straight and go to a World Series. Or how about the Cardinals who had 140 games to say they were X team last year, then won a championship. Trends aren't forever bro.Of course it is not surprising that you overlook one glaring fact.
When a team wins 1 out of a dozen games. That 1 single win looks like an aberration. It's a statistical anomaly. Because it is a departure from the trend.
Remember when the Leafs were gonna make the playoffs finally last Feb? 5 months of data says they would, FIVE MONTHS, but alas they did not. What's the aberration then? 5 Months of hockey?
Luck is everywhere in sports. Sports are all games of inches and if you fail to see that, you've lost sight of the games you watch.When a team wins consistently, it ceases to be the exception and starts becoming like the rule. Luck is generally ruled out. Is TFC in this category? Not even close.
Nobody is saying TFC should be an 8-0 club, but luck is why we aren't a mid table club no doubt.However, when a team is consistently losing, anomalies such as "luck" are discounted. Because "bad luck" doesn't happen to good teams over multiple games and multiple months.
So when the stats said we had -5.83 goals against from "non scoring" opportunities, a league worst, that's not luck, am i rite?The fact that Toronto has been losing signficantly more than winning is exactly why "good luck" and "bad luck" cannot be equated as having similar impacts on either side of the win column. I know people try to do so, but trend analysis say it is much more structural issue than it is an intangible one.
Ryan, I appreciate your passion, but can you please tone down the sarcasm and derision a notch. We don't like it when Roogsy et al. do it, and it's the same for everyone else.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
honestly, for some people there isn't a thing that Winter COULD have said that wouldn't piss them off. If he said "Vancouver are the favourites" there would be people raging about how Winter is conceding that the team that he built and coaches is bad, or there would be people complaining that it demoralizes his own players.
The only thing that Vancouver needs for motivation is their VC history and more importantly, last year. Anyone consider that it might motivate his players more than Vancouver's?
Seriously, just because he's not the greatest game day coach, doesn't mean that everything he says and does at every second of every day is wrong, as some people here wish to believe and make others believe
You took the words out of my mouth. I'm not a Winter fan, but I don't have to hate everything about the man. I think it was a poor choice to hire an inexperienced coach, and it shows in our record, but I don't hate how he plays golf, his taste in beer, or absolutely every aspect of his coaching. I don't loath the man, I wish him well in fact.
Now about the game, both Roogsy and I tagged Vancouver to win the Voyageurs Cup this year several months ago, but if TFC plays like they did last game, they still have an outside chance to take this one. It certainly will be an interesting match to watch (which is all that the Montreal Impact will be able to do )
Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-11-2012 at 09:06 PM.
Here's the link from the Canadian Edition of Goal.com (where this article originated): http://www.goal.com/en-ca/news/4189/...canadian-final
#supportlocalfootballjournalism
We are the best Canadian team and time will allow us to prove it again and again. This is just a lull to allow other maple teams to improve and think they have a chance. Let us give them that, ok!
Fuck Winter and the FO. Let us watch our boys celebrate and join them when they do!
In regards to line-up, isn't Cann carded for the Vancouver game. I would hate to see Aceval in.
I think the Vancouver series is going to be the break for AW this season. I've seen the Caps a couple of times this season, and they are a different monster compared to last year. They are super organised at the back, and now with Hassli AND Le Toux up front, they have multiple options going forward. TFC might get a break if they can keep the first leg tight and if they approach it like the first Montreal game. But if Vancouver score a couple of goals, we can wave goodbye to the home leg. It's also going to be imperative that TFC try and score an away goal, so they will need to TRY and be a little adventurous in the first leg to score a goal.
In betweem I don't see TFC getting anything out of the DC game. This could be a tough couple of weeks. As usual, I hope I'm wrong!
I don't see us sitting back at all in the 1st leg, we got 6 days to prepare, some fresh legs coming back (Soolsma had a bit of pace on Weds and DK is going to be back). Their backline will get tested, they are in NE tonight so they gotta fly back home across the continent to prepare for us after that while we catch our wind for now.
They also have a difficult tilt vs Seattle when we play @ DC, so they have a difficult stretch to balance all 4 matches in the next 11 days.
^ He speaks from the heart and not from the brain.
We can take these games, MLS record be damned. I saw a different team on Wednesday, I saw the team we all thought we were getting two months ago.
^The winds of war ^
Vancouver is playing New England tonight at Gilette, then flying back to Vancouver. they will be tired. TFC needs a result, and no reason why we can't take it to Vancouver at BC Place, with no game this weekend
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Too easy for Vancouver as Hassli puts Shitecaps up 1-0
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Revs hit back, as Nguyen gets revenge on the team he got cut from after a bit of scramble in Vancouver box. 1-1
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Nice dribbling and pass by Nguyen for Sene to finish. 2-1 NE. entertaining game so far
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
3-1 Revs after Joseph buries a hashed clearance by Mitchell
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
what a volley by Nguyen. GOTW nominee for sure. 4-1 NE
a lot of great goals this week
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano