Keep Winter or Scrap Him?

[cherono]

"So Winter is purposely fucking with his players heads and trying to lose so that he can go home?

Lol.. This place, man..."

Perversely, I hope this is true. Better that there's some Machiavellian gamesmanship behind the secenes rather than the unbearable truth (*?) of us simply being an absolute shower of a team!

Oh well, back to our bread and butter of Cup competitions this week - onwards and upwards!

[Roogsy]

It's a different can of worms altogether. Technically if we hired any coach without first team experience to manage TFC, there wouldn't be a "shred of evidence" that he can lead us anywhere. Aside from results, there are few empirical "truths" in the quality of a manager's tactics, his substitutions, etc. It all comes down to interpretation, how you see the games subjectively, and ultimately, the results. But even then, there's a wide range of belief in how much time is enough before those results must be judged.

This isn't the same as nakedly stating that you choose to believe things based on what reinforces your own opinion. But ER didn't mean what he wrote, so it's a moot point.

We should get back to the topic at hand.

- Scott

True Scott....


EXCEPT...

We now have almost 60 games of evidence to show us where Winter can lead us. Based on that evidence alone, what is the logical conclusion? Since we now DO have evidence and yet there is still an element of the fanbase that believes he can turn this around, what exactly is that based on?

[ExiledRed]

True Scott....


EXCEPT...

We now have almost 60 games of evidence to show us where Winter can lead us. Based on that evidence alone, what is the logical conclusion? Since we now DO have evidence and yet there is still an element of the fanbase that believes he can turn this around, what exactly is that based on?

haha an inside source.

a little bird maybe. Or even three?

Every littl' ting, is gonna be all right!

[Canary10]

Gotta say, I don't like Winter's poking the hornet's nest today saying TFC is a better team than Montreal. Even I have to admit he is more and more sounding like someone who's lost the plot.

[Shakes McQueen]

True Scott....


EXCEPT...

We now have almost 60 games of evidence to show us where Winter can lead us. Based on that evidence alone, what is the logical conclusion? Since we now DO have evidence and yet there is still an element of the fanbase that believes he can turn this around, what exactly is that based on?

You would need to ask them. If they say it's because they are collating every shred of evidence they can that corroborates their own opinion on Winter, and discarding the rest, then it's pretty much equivalent. Of course no one would ever say that (whatever they believed), because that's essentially admitting you're intellectually bankrupt. Which is why what ER said was so hilarious.

I will say that no one is looking at the results in a contextual vacuum. Depending on what weight you give the mitigating factors surrounding his record after 60 games, you could come to the conclusion that he deserves more time. You disagree. That's fine. I'm not really interested in debating the point beyond that, as I said in my sad rant yesterday.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

[Shakes McQueen]

I can't see videos from here, so you'll need to tell me what that is, haha.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

I will say that no one is looking at the results in a contextual vacuum. Depending on what weight you give the mitigating factors surrounding his record after 60 games, you could come to the conclusion that he deserves more time. You disagree. That's fine. I'm not really interested in debating the point beyond that, as I said in my sad rant yesterday.

I suppose so but then again, my analytical mind can't give more weight to anecdotal evidence than statistical or analogical evidence and that would have to be the case in order to give Winter more time because the last 2 already provide significant amount of evidence to form a logical conclusion.

[Roogsy]

I can't see videos from here, so you'll need to tell me what that is, haha.

- Scott

Just Bob Marley baby...every'ting irie...

[Shakes McQueen]

I suppose so but then again, my analytical mind can't give more weight to anecdotal evidence than statistical or analogical evidence and that would have to be the case in order to give Winter more time because the last 2 already provide significant amount of evidence to form a logical conclusion.

I don't think it's ever that easy in sports. Logic can only take you so far with so many variables floating around. And I don't think those variables simply boil down to anecdotes. Put 10 footy fans in a room, and you might get 10 different answers to what tactics work, how long it takes to impose "culture" on a team, how long a coach should have before team record factors into the equation, and so on. Supporting your point of view with analogues to our situation, or statistical evidence, obviously lends weight to your argument (as opposed to "I think Winter should get more time, becasue we need to be patient! Derp!"). But even the best arguments here boil down to trying to read the play on the pitch, making assumptions about what things are like off the pitch, trying to ascribe blame to certain parties... on and on.

This is also why I ultimately wish people would give the back and forth mudslinging a rest once and for all, and remember what was supposed to be the binding force between us.

- Scott

[Roogsy]

This is also why I ultimately wish people would give the back and forth mudslinging a rest once and for all, and remember what was supposed to be the binding force between us.

Hot chix?

[Ageroo]

Hot chix?

I am still trying to figure out how you have a spectacular aura about you roogs.......maybe that is what is binding us together.

[Roogsy]

I wish we had a "like" button for comments. Age would get one...LOL!

[ExiledRed]

I wish we had a "like" button for comments. Age would get one...LOL!

conceptart.org uses the same vbulletin software and has a 'thanks' button for every post. If you like someones post you 'thank' them for making it. It really was a good system and prevented endless 'THIS' posts.

I think its better than this rep system which is kind of partial.

[Phil]

conceptart.org uses the same vbulletin software and has a 'thanks' button for every post. If you like someones post you 'thank' them for making it. It really was a good system and prevented endless 'THIS' posts.

I think its better than this rep system which is kind of partial.

They are on 3.8.2 and we are up to 4.1.11

We can investigate an updated add on but the versions are pretty far apart.

[Shakes McQueen]

I still don't really understand what our "rep" system is, how it works, or what it does, haha. Never really looked into it.

I assume the little green rectangle above my avatar has something to do with it?

- Scott

[Beach_Red]

Gotta say, I don't like Winter's poking the hornet's nest today saying TFC is a better team than Montreal. Even I have to admit he is more and more sounding like someone who's lost the plot.

He may be right, but it's too bad the best team doesn't always win. I wonder if he's given much thought to how Montreal might be approaching the game.

[T-boy]

He may be right, but it's too bad the best team doesn't always win. I wonder if he's given much thought to how Montreal might be approaching the game.

if results prove anything (which they often do!) then Montreal is better than TFC - they just beat us, and quite easily too!

[trane]

It's a different can of worms altogether. Technically if we hired any coach without first team experience to manage TFC, there wouldn't be a "shred of evidence" that he can lead us anywhere. Aside from results, there are few empirical "truths" in the quality of a manager's tactics, his substitutions, etc. It all comes down to interpretation, how you see the games subjectively, and ultimately, the results. But even then, there's a wide range of belief in how much time is enough before those results must be judged.

This isn't the same as nakedly stating that you choose to believe things based on what reinforces your own opinion. But ER didn't mean what he wrote, so it's a moot point.

We should get back to the topic at hand.

- Scott

I do not want to get into a philosophical debate, and I am in no way pissed. BUT, Exiled observed the overall Winter situation for a while, and from his observations, he came to believe upon certain believe about the said situation. He then here FCC statement , and he believe it because it complies with his believes. He does not state that it is fact, he simply believes it for himself. We all do that.

I believe in god, I view the world through that spectrum, I often see events and receive information, that I believe because it falls in line with my believe in god, I do not expect other to believe it, but I am not a fool for believing it, I just have a different believe system then you.

[trane]

He may be right, but it's too bad the best team doesn't ALWAYS win. I wonder if he's given much thought to how Montreal might be approaching the game.

Always? How about we start with sometimes winning.

[Shakes McQueen]

I do not want to get into a philosophical debate, and I am in no way pissed. BUT, Exiled observed the overall Winter situation for a while, and from his observations, he came to believe upon certain believe about the said situation. He then here FCC statement , and he believe it because it complies with his believes. He does not state that it is fact, he simply believes it for himself. We all do that.

I believe in god, I view the world through that spectrum, I often see events and receive information, that I believe because it falls in line with my believe in god, I do not expect other to believe it, but I am not a fool for believing it, I just have a different believe system then you.

I'm not going to open this Pandora's Box, but I will definitively state we do not all do that. You don't get to pick and choose your own set of personal facts, contingent on how well it comports with your chosen beliefs/theories, and still retain intellectual coherence (or credibility, for that matter).

"To see what is in front of one's face requires a constant struggle" - George Orwell

- Scott

[trane]

^ The search for the truth is a constant struggle but whether you admit it or not we all have chosen beliefs and theories, through which we view the universe and we all chose to believe or disbelieve on the basis of those beliefs and theories. We rational it as science, but knowledge and therefore science as everything else is ever evolving, what we see as sacrosanct fact today, may be proven to be quite inaccurate as our understanding of the world around us grows. Our understanding of the truth is always ultimately always subjective, because our view of even those objective facts is limited by our capacity of viewing the world, we simply cannot be all seeing and all knowing, it is not within our capacity as humans, and hence we can only come as close to the truth as our capacity, and yes our own beliefs and theories about reality (whehter they are religious or otherwise) permits us too. What is important is to understand that we can be wrong in our understanding.

[ExiledRed]

Enough philosophy, and intellectual douchebaggery, more Winter bashing please!

[denime]

^ The search for the truth is a constant struggle but whether you admit it or not we all have chosen beliefs and theories, through which we view the universe and we all chose to believe or disbelieve on the basis of those beliefs and theories. We rational it as science, but knowledge and therefore science as everything else is ever evolving, what we see as sacrosanct fact today, may be proven to be quite inaccurate as our understanding of the world around us grows. Our understanding of the truth is always ultimately always subjective, because our view of even those objective facts is limited by our capacity of viewing the world, we simply cannot be all seeing and all knowing, it is not within our capacity as humans, and hence we can only come as close to the truth as our capacity, and yes our own beliefs and theories about reality (whehter they are religious or otherwise) permits us too. What is important is to understand that we can be wrong in our understanding.

Trane FFS,this is SG forum.

Keep it simple I'm getting a headache.

[trane]

^ It is not my fault, I have to renew my RPB membership so that we can to this in off topic.

[trane]

Enough philosophy, and intellectual douchebaggery, more Winter bashing please!

hahahhahahhahahah . Classic.

[Canary10]

I do not want to get into a philosophical debate, and I am in no way pissed. BUT, Exiled observed the overall Winter situation for a while, and from his observations, he came to believe upon certain believe about the said situation. He then here FCC statement , and he believe it because it complies with his believes. He does not state that it is fact, he simply believes it for himself. We all do that.

I believe in god, I view the world through that spectrum, I often see events and receive information, that I believe because it falls in line with my believe in god, I do not expect other to believe it, but I am not a fool for believing it, I just have a different believe system then you.

FCC's "insider knowledge" sounds like a total crock of shit to me. Anyone that knows Winter at all, or has followed his career at all, know he's a competitor. He's pissed as hell at this record, believe me. We can debate his tactics and what have you, but that kind of character assassination is bull shit from some ass wanting to stir shit. Period.

[trane]

^ I was not debating whether FCC is full of shit or not. I do not know and I do not care.

[Shakes McQueen]

FCC's "insider knowledge" sounds like a total crock of shit to me. Anyone that knows Winter at all, or has followed his career at all, know he's a competitor. He's pissed as hell at this record, believe me. We can debate his tactics and what have you, but that kind of character assassination is bull shit from some ass wanting to stir shit. Period.

While there's little doubt that FCC is pretty clearly coming at Winter from a biased angle (you'd have to be to claim knowledge that he's trying to get fired, unless FCC is Winter himself), but at the same time "he's a competitor" is a pretty weak basis for refutation.

- Scott

[Canary10]

While there's little doubt that FCC is pretty clearly coming at Winter from a biased angle (you'd have to be to claim knowledge that he's trying to get fired, unless FCC is Winter himself), but at the same time "he's a competitor" is a pretty weak basis for refutation.

- Scott

Sorry, I'll get you an indpendent psychological assessment done for you next time.