Real Madrid set to play Toronto in August

[koryo]

What really annoys me is that we couldn't get a schedule change to save our lives last year when 8 or our starting 11 were on international duty. Never mind that both teams at the time readily agreed to the idea. But for a cash grab? No problem.

When certain people on these boards have referred to our league as "Mickey League Soccer" (and I'm one of them), we're not kidding.

Anyway sod it, gobi and have plans to be out of town on the weekend of the 13th and we're not changing them now. Nor are we going to buy tickets for Real Madrid. Again, plans made, the football will have to wait this time.

People who want to go to the game shouldn't be made targets for doing so, nor should those who won't go (be it on principle or, not wanting to spend yet more money, whatever).

If you go, go and enjoy it. If you don't, then don't. This event shouldn't be used as a tool to judge your peers.

[FluSH]

What really annoys me is that we couldn't get a schedule change to save our lives last year when 8 or our starting 11 were on international duty. Never mind that both teams at the time readily agreed to the idea. But for a cash grab? No problem.

But that decision about the schedule was shotdown by:



Do you think they care if we lose one game or two? Over MLS exposure and bringing in a World Class team? MLS could give a flying F about us losing one or two games... If I recall correctly even the other team we were facing was willing to accomodate us...

Edit... I just read your Mickey Mouse League comment so then I take the above back as I believe... it is the league to blame for the reschedule last year...

[Roogsy]

Warning: lengthy rant follows.

I'm not a member of RPB or any other supporters group, and I don't post here much at all, but I do read through and I agree with Jack 100% on this one.

My take on it is this: yes, I'm sure it costs a lot of money to bring RM over. Grass pitch and all that. But at the same time MLSE started this whole "let's have a MLS team in Toronto" thing years ago with a business plan calculating the risk. When I signed up for season tickets with my buddies, I knew I might be watching abysmal football for years, and the league could have contracted again or MLSE could have sold the franchise elsewhere. I could have been sitting in a stadium with 2000 other people. Maybe fewer. And you can bet that MLSE thought about that too.

At the other end of the spectrum in MLSE's forecasts would have been the scenario that actually unfolded: selling out all the season tickets, plus all the single game seats for not only the first year but the next two. Packed houses drinking TONS of beer and buying shirts. The only way this could have been any better for MLSE was if the team had gone to the playoffs and more seats could have been sold. That, and if the team that did it were all developmental players (thus avoiding those nasty 6-figure contracts).

So, after resolutely watching pretty awful games for two seasons, and having international friendlies against teams that were OK but not my first choice (and not many other people's first choice either), yeah, I feel screwed over when management lands a 'big fish' in hosting Madrid, and then decides to shaft us royally if they figure they can squeeze more money out of the deal. Let's remember, for all the rumbling about a DP and real grass, we've seen exactly zilch eventuate. Given the annual revenues that must have - must have - been off the expectation charts, and how they've spent very little money on any improvements to the team or infrastructure... yes, I would have thought that management could have turned around and said, "hey, this friendly is costing us more than we thought... but here it is as a thank you to our fans". Can you imagine the goodwill that would generate?

Some will say, "that's not how business operates". Bullshit. It just depends on how customer loyalty is valued and prioritized by the management. Rather than "that's not how business operates" I would say it's not how MLSE operates.

I would love to be proven otherwise. Since there's been no official announcement, I'll wait to see how this pans out. But given Paul's comments on this forum, we can see how it's leaning... and if it does work out the way it's looking, I will be on the phone to my rep to communicate my displeasure. I haven't decided what I might do just yet, but I may boycott the RM game (by not buying tickets) AND whatever friendly they do offer up as part of the season package (by not showing up, but not selling/giving away the ticket either).

Carry on, Jack. You have more people beyond just RPBs agreeing with you.

Thank you Frozen. This highlights something that bothers me every time an issues comes up with TFC.

I don't now where the perception came from that these opinions like the one you just stated should solely be attributed to the Red Patch Boys and it's members.

I know many fans and supporters that have nothing to do with us that feel this way. But because the opininions are being heard on a forum owned by RPB...obviously it can't be the same with non-RPBs right?

If there is one highly illogical and irrational argument that is constantly seen on these boards it's that the opinions stated here reflect the RPB alone. People don't realize that those that form the RPB are a reflection of the general supporter in the stands. And so the agreements and disagreements you see here are the types of feelings and sentiments you see in the stands. Attributing them solely to RPB indicates a lack of common sense. When a member (or a registered user) voices an opinion, it is highly probable that they are voicing an opinion felt by many others.

Your opinion reflects how I feel as well.

[FluSH]

Frozenkiwi - I agree 100% with you.

In the end the message from the FO is "We aprreciate you a Benfica amount, but not a Real Madrid amount" which is a slap in the face that they could have avoided.

But Cretan... comeon... did anyone ever think we were going to get some of the Giants included with our Season Package?

No one on this board ever thought we would get Liverpool, Man U, Real Madrid, or Barca as one of our friendlies in the 1st year, the 2nd year, nor the 3rd year...

If MLSE had this planned from the get go... which is hard to do due to the logistics and politics of securing even a medium sized club to come to Toronto, Canada and play on Turf (see Paul's post about agents)... then they would have priced it accordingly...

What MLSE has done is given us the OPPORTUNITY to go see Real Madrid...

[torontocelt]

But Cretan... comeon... did anyone ever think we were going to get some of the Giants included with our Season Package?

No one on this board ever thought we would get Liverpool, Man U, Real Madrid, or Barca as one of our friendlies in the 1st year, the 2nd year, nor the 3rd year...

If MLSE had this planned from the get go... which is hard to do due to the logistics and politics of securing even a medium sized club to come to Toronto, Canada and play on Turf (see Paul's post about agents)... then they would have priced it accordingly...

What MLSE has done is given us the OPPORTUNITY to go see Real Madrid...

I am glad that someone else thinks like me, there is actually quite a lot of people on these boards thinking exactly the same thing. Let people boycott the game etc, that is up to them but for those wanting to go then lets go and have a fantastic time, RM wont be back in Toronto anytime soon.

[jwfm1985]

But Cretan... comeon... did anyone ever think we were going to get some of the Giants included with our Season Package?

No one on this board ever thought we would get Liverpool, Man U, Real Madrid, or Barca as one of our friendlies in the 1st year, the 2nd year, nor the 3rd year...

If MLSE had this planned from the get go... which is hard to do due to the logistics and politics of securing even a medium sized club to come to Toronto, Canada and play on Turf (see Paul's post about agents)... then they would have priced it accordingly...

What MLSE has done is given us the OPPORTUNITY to go see Real Madrid...

+1

[Marc"2L"]

What does MLSE have to lose?

Remember, they said they're ok with 13 - 15 000.

On that note, I think the date change sucks. I hate the new york just as much as the next dude, but stiffing their supporters like this?

[Batman]

I am glad that someone else thinks like me, there is actually quite a lot of people on these boards thinking exactly the same thing. Let people boycott the game etc, that is up to them but for those wanting to go then lets go and have a fantastic time, RM wont be back in Toronto anytime soon.

I feel the same way. I really don't particularly care about the date change, and I'll decide whether I want to go to see RM or not. I clearly wouldn't expect a match like that to be part of my included friendly package.

Now I wouldn't mind a credit towards the tickets with my ssh friendly ticket. Personally I'd rather that than yet another friendly.

But, gererally I'm satisfied. (I'm always somewhat surprised by all the complaining here..)

[Hooligan69]

I wonder how people will feel about this friendly should any of our players be struck down by injuries. Also, the re-scheduling of the Dead Bulls game means I will miss out due to family commitments.

[Roogsy]

What MLSE has done is given us the OPPORTUNITY to go see Real Madrid...

Fine. Then they should have never charged us in the season ticket package for an international friendly if that friendly was not going to be included. Do they want to bring a big team to town? Fantastic. It's not like I am against bringing in Real or United or Juve.

But if their intent is to never include those big games in the package, then don't charge us 8 months in advance for a friendly and then announce a friendly that is not included in that package. And then proceed to schedule an additional game into the year AND move the fixtures around to go about fitting in this meaningless game.

You seem to be overlooking that this isn't about the TEAM that is being brought in, it's about the process that TFC has gone about doing things.

[FluSH]

I wonder how people will feel about this friendly should any of our players be struck down by injuries. Also, the re-scheduling of the Dead Bulls game means I will miss out due to family commitments.

You do know this is a what if... scenario?

What if... our players are struck down by injuries?

What if, by playing in the CCL they get swine flu?

Maaaaaaaaaaaaan... what if they were struck last year by injuries when we had two concrete and schedule friendlies... You can't be saying this arguement now when the past two years we haven't compliened en masse about the two friendlies... and the All-Star.

The fact you will miss the dead bulls game due to family commitments is a personal one... on the flip side... NOW I will be able to see the Dead Bulls game... as the previous date fell on my wedding anniversary.

[FluSH]

Fine. Then they should have never charged us in the season ticket package for an international friendly if that friendly was not going to be included. Do they want to bring a big team to town? Fantastic. It's not like I am against bringing in Real or United or Juve.

But if their intent is to never include those big games in the package, then don't charge us 8 months in advance for a friendly and then announce a friendly that is not included in that package. And then proceed to schedule an additional game into the year AND move the fixtures around to go about fitting in this meaningless game.

You seem to be overlooking that this isn't about the TEAM that is being brought in, it's about the process that TFC has gone about doing things.

This is not a friendly... this is a promotional game... and exhibition game if you will...

You seem to think this was planned out well out in advance and from the get go... it looks more like an opportunity arose... to bring in a GIANT of a team that they never envisioned in bringing in the first place with the friendly money and they made a move... they are still bringing in a friendly... but this is NOT a friendly... is a promotional game.

Also, you do understand that MLS has to approve moving the fixtures around... this is the league. MLS probably told TFC FO to move the date around in order to reasonably accomodate the Real Madrid Tour. Time = Money... how long do you think it will cost the League to keep Real Madrid in North America... per day?

[Roogsy]

It's not the first time you've said that Flush...and it's semantics.

This is a meaningless game. Friendly. Promotional. Kickabout. Shinney. Whatever you want to call it.

We now have two meaningless games to play this season. I don't care what we call them.

Also now you are claiming the league forced this upon TFC? I can't say that it's not completely out of the realm of possibility but at this point, it really is you excusing TFC more than there is any evidence that this is actually the case.

[FluSH]

It's not the first time you've said that Flush...and it's semantics.

This is a meaningless game. Friendly. Promotional. Kickabout. Shinney. Whatever you want to call it.

Also now you are claiming the league forced this upon TFC? I can't say that it's not completely out of the realm of possibility but at this point, it really is you excusing TFC more than there is any evidence that is actually the case.

The reason why I repeat it is because you don't acknowlege it... Your alternative is the following:

TFC wishes to give a friendly as part of the Season Ticket Package...
Since they have no idea if they will be turned down by everyone from Liverpool to Saprissa you suggest the following:

Charge a premium to the friendly,,, the equivilent of a GIANT price tag game... bumping our season tickets by an additional 15 points in markup(from the increased price)

Therefore, if miraculously Liverpool or Barca care a flying fuck about playing their investments(players) in Toronto on turf... we can obtain said friendly and give it to the fans as part of the season package.

If they don't get the GIANT friendly...and get a lesser friendly... then the options would be:

a) reimburse part of the money 8 months later
b) credit said differance to a future game


Is that the scenario you propose? because I don't see any other way TFC FO can provide us with the OPPORTUNITY to bring in a GIANT of a team otherwise...

[devioustrevor]

If this game is on the 7th then that could be a huge footy weekend in Toronto. I recently read that Juventus and Boca Juniors are playing in Toronto on the 9th of August.

[boban]

I recently read that Juventus and Boca Juniors are playing in Toronto on the 9th of August.

Where? Link?

[Hooligan69]

The fact you will miss the dead bulls game due to family commitments is a personal one... on the flip side...

That wasn't a complaint so don't treat as such. I was merely stating that I will be unable to attend the game.

[FluSH]

That wasn't a complaint so don't treat as such. I was merely stating that I will be unable to attend the game.

Well I assumed this because the first sentence of your post seemed like it...

[Roogsy]

The reason why I repeat it is because you don't acknowlege it... Your alternative is the following:

TFC wishes to give a friendly as part of the Season Ticket Package...
Since they have no idea if they will be turned down by everyone from Liverpool to Saprissa you suggest the following:

Charge a premium to the friendly,,, the equivilent of a GIANT price tag game... bumping our season tickets by an additional 15 points in markup

Therefore, if miraculously Liverpool or Barca care a flying fuck about playing their investments(players) in Toronto on turf... we can obtain said friendly and give it to the fans as part of the season package.

If they don't get the GIANT friendly...nd get a lesser friendly... then the options would be:

a) reimburse part of the money 8 months later
b) credit said differance to a future game


Is that the scenario you propose? because I don't see any other way TFC FO can provide us with the OPPORTUNITY to bring in a GIANT of a team otherwise...

Flush...I understood all of this from your previous posts. You are simply speaking in circles. Your basic argument is that this is a friendly/promotional/meaningless game but that all other arguments are meaningless because of HOW BIG Real Madrid is.

All that does is reinforce my opinion that it reflects a lack of self-respect on our part.

So next year...when we are in the middle of a playoff run and Liverpool becomes available for a meaningless game...hey...let's rearrange our schedule and risk our team's health again.

And then next year do the same when AC Milan with Becks come trotting to town.

Or here is a thought.

Now that you have landed Madrid, stop trying to bring another team to town and credit us the game we paid for either directly, for next season, or into the playoffs. (At this point, what's the point of bringing in another team?)

That way...you get your meaningless game with the HUGE team...and the players don't have to play an extra game with no reason and we can forgive TFC's giddyness at bringing in Real and moving a fixture date.

And I might point out that I haven't acknowledged your point about the promotional game because it's a minor point of semantics. Whereas you have not addressed the issue of sanctity of fixture dates, risking player health in the middle of a playoff run and taking away a home game in the middle of summer where we have very few home games to speak of and where traditionally our team has crapped the bed and taken themselves out of a playoff run. I would say these points are more important than whether a game against RM is considered "friendly" or "promotional" which I must admit, I still don't understand what the difference is other than Real Madrid is a bigger club than we have ever seen here.

[Hooligan69]

Well I assumed this because the first sentence of your post seemed like it...

HA! Yeah, that's what I get for editing my post to include both sentences into one paragraph. My bad, FluSH.

[FluSH]

Flush...I understood all of this from your previous posts. You are simply speaking in circles. Your basic argument is that this is a friendly/promotional/meaningless game but that all other arguments are meaningless because of HOW BIG Real Madrid is.

All that does is reinforce my opinion that it reflects a lack of self-respect on our part.

So next year...when we are in the middle of a playoff run and Liverpool becomes available for a meaningless game...hey...let's rearrange our schedule and risk our team's health again.

And then next year do the same when AC Milan with Becks come trotting to town.

Or here is a thought.

Now that you have landed Madrid, stop trying to bring another team to town and credit us the game we paid for either directly, for next season, or into the playoffs. (At this point, what's the point of bringing in another team?)

That way...you get your meaningless game with the HUGE team...and the players don't have to play an extra game with no reason and we can forgive TFC's giddyness at bringing in Real and moving a fixture date.

And I might point out that I haven't acknowledged your point about the promotional game because it's a minor point of semantics. Whereas you have not addressed the issue of sanctity of fixture dates, risking player health in the middle of a playoff run and taking away a home game in the middle of summer where we have very few home games to speak of and where traditionally our team has crapped the bed and taken themselves out of a playoff run. I would say these points are more important than whether a game against RM is considered "friendly" or "promotional" which I must admit, I still don't understand what the difference is other than Real Madrid is a bigger club than we have ever seen here.

The reason why I say this is a promotional game and not a friendly is because people out there seem to be pissed of that this was not included as part of their season package... and that they have to shell out extra $$$

Now, you're putting the guilt trip on us getting injured and missing out on a playoff race because of this meaningless game... this is it...

Did you complain the first year about the TWO schedule friendlies? Did you complain the 2nd year about the TWO schedule friendlies?

If you honestly say you did as much as you have here today... this week... then I will quite down... but if you didn't how can you come say this now?

The best scenario would be to have no friendlies during the season... that way we know for sure we are not going to:

Get injured... play ourselves out of the playoff race... get struck by lightning...

[Roogsy]

The reason why I say this is a promotional game and not a friendly is because people out there seem to be pissed of that this was not included as part of their season package... and that they have to shell out extra $$$

Now, you're putting the guilt trip on us getting injured and missing out on a playoff race because of this meaningless game... this is it...

Did you complain the first year about the TWO schedule friendlies? Did you complain the 2nd year about the TWO schedule friendlies?

If you honestly say you did as much as you have here today... this week... then I will quite down... but if you didn't how can you come say this now?

The best scenario would be to have no friendlies during the season... that way we know for sure we are not going to:

Get injured... play ourselves out of the playoff race... get struck by lightning...

Let me put it this way.

In 3 seasons, I have not gone to a single friendly game. Not one.

I don't believe in them.

Other than pre-season conditioning, friendly games are HORRIBLE ideas in the middle of a season. I have always thought that, and I made my feelings known every season. Especially after the FIRST friendly game when we had injured players come out...namely one very important O'Brien.

Name me one top club in this world that plays friendlies in the middle of the season? And everyone knows why. In the middle of the season, YOU DON'T ADD UNNECESSARY GAMES!

And the injury argument is not irrelevant. Nor can it be dismissed so easily. EVERY game is a game where you risk injuring one or more players. But when those games count...it's a risk you take. What argument is there to take that risk when the games are meaningless? Just one. Money.

And I don't buy the "exposure" argument. There is one thing that is necessary for this team to gain the exposure we all want for it. Winning. Playoffs. Success. None of this is addressed by bringing Madrid to town.

The entire supporting RM argument is one of being star struck by their massiveness. It's not a position I buy into. I could care less of how big they are. And if I could care less...I am guessing there are others as well. So much for "exposure".

[Jack]

I can say I was pretty unhappy about us losing O'Brien in the Villa friendly in year one which subsequently contributed to (maybe was the major factor in) us setting a very negative record.

[Roogsy]

I can say I was pretty unhappy about us losing O'Brien in the Villa friendly in year one which subsequently contributed to (maybe was the major factor in) us setting a very negative record.

I think at that point many people realized the sheer stupidity of adding meaningless games in the middle of a season. Everyone except our FO.

There is one promotional game that is added every year to most sports in North America. The All Star game...and that game has many detractors. Many people simply feel it should be done away with. With such a massive promotional game still having arguments against it...how much moreso a local game like a friendly?

Losing O'Brien was the sealing factor in my decision never to support a friendly. What a horrible summer we spent that year. I thought it could never be beaten. And then we had the horrible summer last year that nearly cracked the support for this team. Easily one of the worst sporting experiences of my life.

Does anyone want to take a guess what will happen if this team craps the bed THIS SUMMER? What reason is there to tempt fate like that?

[CretanBull]

O'Brien was my favourite player....he was never the same after that game vs. Villa and that injury ultimately lead us to having to trade him away.

[Roogsy]

^ Not only that? Where is he now? I shudder to think about it.

Either way, the point is not whether a player will get injured or not, but whether it is a good idea to risk it unecessarily?

If people think it is for the sake of money, fine. But I disagree with that position.

By the way...if someone has done the math...I'd love to see exactly how much money TFC will make off this game that is so worth going through this. It better be huge profits. Somehow I don't see it. Real Madrid ain't coming for free...and they ain't coming for a coke and a smile.

[Keyman]

^ Not only that? Where is he now? I shudder to think about it.

Either way, the point is not whether a player will get injured or not, but whether it is a good idea to risk it unecessarily?

If people think it is for the sake of money, fine. But I disagree with that position.

By the way...if someone has done the math...I'd love to see exactly how much money TFC will make off this game that is so worth going through this. It better be huge.

Well if you put the average ticket price at $175, does that seem plausible? Then they'd earn a revenue of approximately $3.5 million from seat sales alone. Add to that merchandise sales, plus beer, food, etc., and its over $4 million.

[Jack]

Exactly, Roogsy.

The point here is to win. Not to play meaningless games. If one of our players gets injured in a meaningful game, well, you have to accept it. But to get injured in a money-grabber is just plain wrong. Unneccessary and ultimately it has negatively affected our team in the past.

[Roogsy]

Well if you put the average ticket price at $175, does that seem plausible? Then they'd earn a revenue of approximately $3.5 million from seat sales alone. Add to that merchandise sales, plus beer, food, etc., and its over $4 million.

Ufffffffff....well kudos for the cash.

I know I won't be paying $175 for a ticket. And my dad who IS a Real Madrid fan won't be either, I know that for sure.

So that is 4mill in Revenue (at that price which I doubt). What are the costs? Bringing the team, the costs of operation and the grass of course. Not to mention...do the players get paid extra?

[Jack]

Average ticket price won't be anywhere near $175.

More like $90-$100 I would think.