Bob Bradley Deathwatch Thread

[ag futbol]

Yeah, I agree even though Bernie was so good last season. I’m curious to see him as a striker though. Is he a 6 million dollar striker?… if he scores and helps get Insigne in on roll it’d be better than shopping him with much of his salary likely to be on books (to go along with the 1.4 (?) million we are still paying Jozy.)

Edit: I admit I like Kerr (based on his performances last year and this) as a winger. Was also true of Saturday. Leave him on the right with Insigne on the other side and Bernie in the middle. Kerr will probably learn a ton, and anyway if Carlos Vela is the winger Bradley wants (so dumb in every way to show Bernie video of Vela and Salah) Bernie ain’t that so he may as well use him a striker.

I like the thought (seeing how much we get out of Kerr). It appeared simple pace in that position does a lot and we can even get some moderate price signing to fill the gap if Kerr’s form is up-and-down.

The other thing I think we should revisit is a proper midfield DP (making our three DP’s LI, a striker, and a mid). Many have said hedges absence in the lineup is felt in a big way, I agree. But I think a large part of the reason for that is there’s no general in midfield providing leadership and lining everyone up. So defensively we get to be a mess rather quickly when Hedges is out. DP signing might solve that and solidify other things too.

[Bushmancan]

The money is kind of irrelevant. We are stuck with the contract unless he agrees to kill it, so now it's just how to get the best out of him.

I honestly might prefer Kerr on the right. He has pace. He can score, he can dribble. He needs to learn to read and pass the game but that can come.

I'd try Berna as #9 and let him and CJ share that duty.

I don't think it's him playing on the right side.

I kind of think he might be a better 10 but i hear you. I know that was Poz, but i am still suspicious of Poz’s departure, whether it was Bob’s view of the player because it cant be because of the lack of the role in his formation. Bernie when he wants to be is smart, strong, reads the game, good defensively, and was successful attacking from the middle in Fiorentina. Again that was 6 years ago but the pedigree is there, so slide from the 9 to the 10.

[leedsandTFC]

I like the thought (seeing how much we get out of Kerr). It appeared simple pace in that position does a lot and we can even get some moderate price signing to fill the gap if Kerr’s form is up-and-down.

The other thing I think we should revisit is a proper midfield DP (making our three DP’s LI, a striker, and a mid). Many have said hedges absence in the lineup is felt in a big way, I agree. But I think a large part of the reason for that is there’s no general in midfield providing leadership and lining everyone up. So defensively we get to be a mess rather quickly when Hedges is out. DP signing might solve that and solidify other things too.

this sounds good to me.

if we move berna this summer, the other DPs being a CM and a striker makes a lot of sense.

[rydermike]

I would love for Bernadeschi to work out here, just given the love he has shown the city to me shows that he enjoys being here (compared to say Defoe). I know the reason he came was the salary and no one in Europe would give him a similar $6.5 million per year deal. But what creeped in my head is what would he get in Europe, would it be say $2 million a year? I think he has something like $20 million left on his deal. If he could command say a $10 million fee and maybe a $2 million annual salary on a four year deal which would be about $18 million. Would a team in Europe perhaps then be willing to pay his salary if we let him go on a free and basically shift the transfer fee to salary? Which would allow us to completely rid ourselves of the contract without retaining anything like Jozy's?

[leedsandTFC]

I would love for Bernadeschi to work out here, just given the love he has shown the city to me shows that he enjoys being here (compared to say Defoe). I know the reason he came was the salary and no one in Europe would give him a similar $6.5 million per year deal. But what creeped in my head is what would he get in Europe, would it be say $2 million a year? I think he has something like $20 million left on his deal. If he could command say a $10 million fee and maybe a $2 million annual salary on a four year deal which would be about $18 million. Would a team in Europe perhaps then be willing to pay his salary if we let him go on a free and basically shift the transfer fee to salary? Which would allow us to completely rid ourselves of the contract without retaining anything like Jozy's?

itd be comfortably more than 2 mill a year, likely 3-4 mill a year in europe, more if someone got him on a free transfer or cheap deal.

i do think you're right though and they will be looking into that possibility (releasing on a free) if they have some other DPs lined up and he doesn't get right with bob.

[Fort York Redcoat]

So Bob gets more time. Like till Wednesday. Thanks to Kerr and Insigne. In that order.

[Ultra & Proud]

So Bob gets more time. Like till Wednesday. Thanks to Kerr and Insigne. In that order.

I still say he has until the summer break and he will be sacked. That is unless we go on a heavy duty, feel good winning steak until then and get right into the playoff mix.

I still saw a lot of our usual issues out there Saturday but the high level of effort glossed over those problems. Also DC played a poor tactical match against us and they looked mostly shit. However if everyone buys in and commits that level of effort week in and out then we could go on a run. I just can't see it lasting though and our tactical shortcomings will eventually be too much to overcome especially against good pressing teams.

[FootBallAZ]

Im so baffled how everyone is siding with BOB over Bernie.

3 wins in 23 games is not easy have positive morale.

The fact Bob jettisoned literally many useful players including #10 -a player TFC desperately needs in the middle with his vision.

The more I look at it the more I see it all on BOB.

His way or the highway created a lot of issues- especially when the useful players basically didn't net TFC anything meaningful.


I was told from inside the locker room - I don't know what is really going on.

I took it as a toxic environment last season as well with Bob laying the law and possibly making general manager choices based on personality rather then on field performance which to me is a grounds for termination.

Could you imagine trying to talk to MB about how shitty of a coach his dad is. Feels like all this locker room divide started last season.

I blame BM for creating this toxic environment where players can't speak freely without consequences.

Or the fact that Bernie had no one above Bob to reach out to regarding the lack of accountability and performance at the club which led to his comments in public.


Are yall really chosing BB over Bernie

🧐

[jloome]

Im so baffled how everyone is siding with BOB over Bernie.

類

Life is very rarely all of one thing and none of the other.

People are acknowledging that they made changes and got a win, they're not "endorsing" Bob. In fact, many, many people in these threads now have said "keep doing it and we'll see."

But by the same token, if Bernadeschi is continually disruptive, and that's part of the issue, or if he and Insigne have been basically refusing to adopt the style of play the team is being coached, that's also not something that should get a free pass.

The facts are this: we have grossly contradictory information from all sides in this. The only thing we can really judge at this point is how they do on the pitch.

Based on what some of the players are saying, there are clearly locker-room rifts that still exist. This hasn't played out yet, and deciding now who is right and who is wrong is clearly premature.

What isn't premature is continuing to hold Bob and the club to a higher standard. If we win four of the next five and it's clear this has been turned around.... then yeah, maybe people will start cutting some slack.

But we're certainly not there yet.

[JoesphNdo]

Yeah I still think Bradley and Manning need to go as an absolute table stakes decision to turn us around, and Michael may need to step down as captain (But under a new manager maybe that turns into a non issue, hard for us to know from here)

However, life is rarely black and white, and Bernie may need to go, also. We don't really have enough information to know from here. The main issue with that is - I don't see how it's possible to get rid of him even if we want too, and, given Bradley's track record with our DPs my inclination would be to give him a chance with a new manager

However, if we somehow go on a tear, that will turn things around. The one thing I don't think we should do is use the rock bottom expectations from previous poor decisions to assume we're doing well when we're not. With the resources and everything else available, scraping into the play offs remains failure, it doesn't suddenly become success because you shat the bed so hard early on that that now seems good. This is a league where any team that can kick a ball straight makes the play offs. I'll judge Bradley by if he's capable of turning this team into an upper level MLS team, that remains the bar. Saturday was a good sign but there's a long, long way to go to convince me - I'm firmly, firmly in the territory of he absolutely needs to go and winning a football match doesn't change that, but, he remains in the job so there's always a chance he can do it

[jloome]

I'll judge Bradley by if he's capable of turning this team into an upper level MLS team, that remains the bar. Saturday was a good sign but there's a long, long way to go to convince me - I'm firmly, firmly in the territory of he absolutely needs to go and winning a football match doesn't change that, but, he remains in the job so there's always a chance he can do it

Seems fair to me. MLSE is spending more money than anyone else.

[leedsandTFC]

Seems fair to me. MLSE is spending more money than anyone else.

yep.

if this is just a flash in the pan like that nyc game then he needs to go. need a sustained run leading up to the leagues cup break.

[Bushmancan]

I took it as a toxic environment last season as well with Bob laying the law and possibly making general manager choices based on personality rather then on field performance which to me is a grounds for termination.

Could you imagine trying to talk to MB about how shitty of a coach his dad is. Feels like all this locker room divide started last season.

I blame BM for creating this toxic environment where players can't speak freely without consequences.

類

I still think BM needs a great deal of scrutiny on his decisions.

[OgtheDim]

I still think BM needs a great deal of scrutiny on his decisions.

Well after Chicago, we play

Loons (crap at home, for some reason) but not a bad team #6 in West

then

#2 currently in East

#1 in East (Shield leading)

#3 in East


We will know after the next 5 games....

[spe18]

Well after Chicago, we play

Loons (crap at home, for some reason) but not a bad team #6 in West

then

#2 currently in East

#1 in East (Shield leading)

#3 in East


We will know after the next 5 games....

and not to mention one 1 home game in June!

[Ultra & Proud]

I’ve been told that Anthony Hudson left the USMNT for a club opportunity outside the United States. We can assume it was an opportunity that he couldn’t let pass & wasn’t going to be there after the summer. Taking into account that Gold Cup ends July 16th.

If we lost last Saturday I would be more nervous about this because this is the exact type of lazy hire Manning is known for.

[Mr. Inbetween]

If we lost last Saturday I would be more nervous about this because this is the exact type of lazy hire Manning is known for.

Wow! Interesting. though odd and abrupt?

EDIT: For MLS? Seems B.J. Callaghan is his replacement.

[Ultra & Proud]

Wow! Interesting. though odd and abrupt?

EDIT: For MLS? Seems B.J. Callaghan is his replacement.

Hudson to middle eastern club team so we dodged that bullet. Probably better to hang on to Bob until all the lazy Manning type hires get picked up by other desperate teams. Or just fire Manning to cut the head off the snake.

[los sonadores]

Hudson to middle eastern club team so we dodged that bullet. Probably better to hang on to Bob until all the lazy Manning type hires get picked up by other desperate teams. Or just fire Manning to cut the head off the snake.

Oh fuck, thank god! (Though I maintain that Bob isn’t going anywhere! Anthony Hudson though, jeeze.)

[Ultra & Proud]

Oh fuck, thank god! (Though I maintain that Bob isn’t going anywhere! Anthony Hudson though, jeeze.)

This was one that had me a bit worried for a while. It's exactly the type of move that Lazy Bill would do. Still have a little bit to go and then Berhalter & Marsch should be off the table.

[los sonadores]

This was one that had me a bit worried for a while. It's exactly the type of move that Lazy Bill would do. Still have a little bit to go and then Berhalter & Marsch should be off the table.

That would is encouraging, those two off the table, please!

[Ultra & Proud]

That would is encouraging, those two off the table, please!

Problem is there seems to be a never ending stream of bad options that are either USMNT affiliated or worked under Bob at some point. The list is terrible and has no end.

[OgtheDim]

Well that was...... interesting....

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/lates...ey-may-30-2023

[Mr. Inbetween]

Well that was...... interesting....

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/lates...ey-may-30-2023

Agree. Very interesting. Most of what BB is saying about sources/agendas/truth is in line with my position. I am working on something re.: Kaylyn Kyle that was/is going to reference the following 'family' tweet...

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/JBradley08736/status/1663275747702722560

[Joe Kool]

Well that was...... interesting....

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/lates...ey-may-30-2023

Not super surprised at anything that he said really since he will not give up anything to the media. Not sure I love that he talks about working with our DP's daily still to try to figure out how to best use them to be effective for the team. Should that not have been known in theory before they were signed and definitely figured out almost a year into them being here? If he is still trying to figure that out at this point then maybe it will never happen.

[los sonadores]

Well that was...... interesting....

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/lates...ey-may-30-2023

Yes… What do you make of it?

[Ultra & Proud]

Not sure I love that he talks about working with our DP's daily still to try to figure out how to best use them to be effective for the team. Should that not have been known in theory before they were signed and definitely figured out almost a year into them being here?

Shifting blame because earlier he refused to alter his preferred tactics and now probably has no idea how to best use both of them on the field at the same time. Easier to say they're all trying to figure it out everyday.

[Canary10]

Well that was...... interesting....

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/lates...ey-may-30-2023

Hmm, yeah. Not sure what to make of that. Kind of bugs me how American coaches all sound like they're coaching high school football though. At least he didn't say PK.

[OgtheDim]

Yes… What do you make of it?

First thoughts?

That first 5 minutes were always going to be tense. BB was never going to say the Athletic article was truth. Journos had to ask & they did.

A lot of talk happened last week & BB didn't say it didn't. He was asked about the Athletic article & basically indicated he wasn't going to discuss it.


Nobody around the team has denied there were not conversations last week - the indication is the conversations were at times pointed. Somehow, they came out of all that ready, eager & executed a plan to win.

No indication last week is forgotten or behind people.
No indication where Feda fits into Wednesday - they are still talking about it.


The bit about Whatsapp ing a former player - that was pointed & a defence of last year's approach with somebody - I think they know who gave that view on the environment.


Nothing in that interview provides a further problem.
Nothing indicates there wasn't a lot of "talk" last week.
Nothing indicates they can't figure out a way moving forward.


Results matter was also a touching point - that's a BM phrase too so I suspect word came down directly or personally that the results on the pitch had to improve.


This Wednesday & then June is going to be a big test of this team.

[jloome]

Well that was...... interesting....

https://www.torontofc.ca/video/lates...ey-may-30-2023

I (gahd some of you are going to hate this) actually respect his answer.

I was a print journalist for 24 years. For most of that, I had a rule -- and held it up in my newsroom when I was in charge -- that anonymous sources were not allowed unless justified by "whistleblower status", i.e. the immediate risk of losing their job.

That standard has been abandoned by the media. People just assume it's all done honorably but the reality is that most reporters now just grant anonymity whenever anyone "could get in trouble."

But that's a really low bar, a really low standard. People can "get in trouble" for saying anything slanderous, for example. Should they be protected for it? People can get in trouble for breaking their employer's confidentiality. If the break doesn't lead to a serious, important social consequences of some sorrt -- i.e. ending employer abuse -- should they automatically be protected for it?

No. It renders all information dubious, and also ignores our binary nature; it robs doubters of a reason to believe.

I know it's the norm now, but it's just lazy, shitty journalism for the most part. And that's cheaper. Reporters who knew their craft, knew how to get this kind of story with names actually attached, insisted on being paid properly. Most of them are now in corporate or government PR, being paid twice as much for half the work. Being a journalist is not the awesome sauce people seem to believe it is; you're largely trying to uncover shit people don't want uncovered, you're constantly demonized and you're paid half of what copywriters make half the damn time. Doing it well, putting in that kind of effort and time, requires compensation most places will no longer pay, and bodies for whom they can or will no longer budget.

Anonymity is not necessary on a humanistic basis unless the story actually has elements of profound unfairness to it. Someone simply being disgruntled while working for what amounts to an entertainment provider does not even come close to meeting that standard.

So ... yeah, I agree with him. The honorable thing is to not comment on it. Typically, these types of stories dance around the actual truth and present one or two agendas, which is why the longer they're around -- if people bother to follow up on them -- the further the final story diverges from the initial coverage. That's why within days you start getting different versions (Insigne did/didn't go to Austin, he does/doesn't hate Bob) etc. Because often the truth is elementally similar but far more nuanced.

I've been the guy that stuff was leaked to literally thousands of times over two decades. I can tell you right now, the number of times the leaker didn't have a personally beneficial agenda -- rather than a public concern -- could probably have been counted on my fingers and toes. But when you're being presented evidence, their agenda is often irrelevant to the facts on paper or in evidence.

When it's just statements and opinions, that's a different story. For all we know this was torqued massively out of proportion. Or based on squad banter in which guys show how big their balls are by exaggerating the fuck out of their exploits, concerns and planned course of action. If I had to choose a trait common to professional athletes, emotional maturity certainly wouldn't top the list.

None of this means Fede was wrong to bitch about tactics. But equally, it doesn't mean everything in that article was true either.