I don’t know how you show you will be fit when you’re on the wrong side of 30, have played less than a thousand minutes of league play in 3 of the last four years, and have on several occasions showed up to training camp out of shape.
Look, I love what he’s done for the club and legend status certainly but it’s improbable he turns it around from here and would suspect the market views it the same way.
Yeah, it’s got to be ‘fit from time to time’ at best. If he’s not the striker(s) you rely on and overall the situation suits him, he could be very useful. But the wages are not going to be high.
On the other hand, Dwyer is an extreme and sad (for us) example but it’s true the reputation can linger. I wouldn’t be surprised if his current reputation in Mexico, for example, is above what it is here.
Last edited by los sonadores; 01-14-2022 at 01:22 AM.
I was gonna ask what the new hot button issue will be once Jozy leaves, but it will for sure be Michael Bradley's playing time.
I love your posts but this is simply not true. It’s recency bias. 2021 was a shit show for Jozy. But that wasn’t true in the past and we need to stop saying it:
“have on several occasions showed up to training camp out of shape”.
Here is 2020 - https://www.wakingthered.com/platfor...mp-says-vanney
Jozy needs to show he can play, for his sake. There are tons of examples of strikers of his class and quality succeeding at his age. He had serious surgery in his ankle last year and if he is going to play again needs to prove by play on the the field that he is past that. If he wants to.
At the same time, TFC has more options with him if he shows that. Yes they will have to pay his 2022 contract, in Toronto or otherwise. But it doesn’t need to be a buy out if they can be creative - and they might need that buy out elsewhere. (Soteldo). So it is also in their interest to show he is fit and can play.
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO NOT HAVE HIM TRAIN IF YOU ARE NOT BUYING HIM OUT
Sorry to yell
Perhaps I’m imagining it but I think there have been other times where his training regime has been Im question, including last year and with the nats.
Re: you’re other point, I respectfully disagree. Athletes these days have to show up to camp with a baseline level of fitness, otherwise the training staff can’t really have them in good enough condition for the start of the season, it all takes time.
By the rule, pretty sure Toronto FC has until roster compliance date (aka just before season start date) to buy him out.
Now, rather or not morally it's the right thing to do (dragging out until the last possible moment) is supposedly a whole different story altogether.
I would love to see a chant of Bob the Builder theme if we get these contracts right, he has been amazing so far
Whatever the Josmer outcome...
I believe supporters need to remember and maybe start recognizing fresher memories also... chanting mark... JA@66:15... >DD@23:13!
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-14-2022 at 02:19 AM.
noxx98, Webdogg, et al.
Thanks for getting into the weeds in the past while on some of these supporting matters and putting your brains at overload risk for us.
Last edited by Mr. Inbetween; 01-14-2022 at 01:38 AM.
If Soteldo ends up being dealt which frees up a DP slot AND if TFC don't sign a further DP (say they sign a TAM striker instead) I can see various scenarios where Jozy is kept on the books for his final year.
We're assuming that because he is unlikely to be worth his full wages that the best option is buying him out, but that's not necessarily so. He looked a lot better near the end of last season, and if we can't get a replacement until mid summer and if he can score at a level approaching his cap hit (even if not his full salary), it might be better to have his services so TFC aren't in a big hole points wise mid season than to pay him out (if for example the DP slot he sits in isn't needed immediately).
Last edited by Oldtimer; 01-14-2022 at 03:22 AM.
Assuming Salcedo joins on $1.5M and we replace Jozy and Soteldo with a single DP for the start of the season we have about $3M left in budget/allocation money space. It may be a bit more than that in reality, if we classify Bradley as a DP for the first half of the season and then have Insigne take that spot, it should create a bit more budget room.
Been established he isn't professional. He doesn't keep himself in shape. He is broken down. And he was never, ever an elite MLS striker. Take off the rose colored glasses and go back on his stats. He was pretty good for 2 years when he played and then below average. The stats, like facts, are right there to see if you want to.
He is not worth even talking about again.
Actually, what I think is “established” is that he played with injuries in 2017 and 2018 CCL when maybe he shouldn’t have, and without that we do not win the Cup or go to CCL final. He also wasn’t “pretty good” in 2016-2018 CCL, he established a record of clutch playoff dominance that the league has never come close to seeing, before or since. Year after year top teams fail in the playoffs because their strikers get closed down (and Columbus came damn close to doing it to us in 2017). Breaking through that, over and over, like Jozy did, it was not just elite. It was unreal.
Then he starting breaking down. Who knows why? You saying he wasn’t in shape, that really is just speculation, and kind of denies pretty obvious evidence of a “warrior” personality. My speculation is that it was just bad luck, and maybe a consequence of playing injured earlier. Also he has been plagued by injuries since before his time at TFC.
In retrospect to re-up in 2019 was a mistake, in particular that amount of term was a serious error by Manning, but wow, your take is pretty mean spirited towards Jozy. To me, anyway.
Last edited by ensco; 01-14-2022 at 08:41 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
In terms of what is going on with Jozy, I think it's pretty safe now, post the DDT (“Dwyer Debacle Trade”), to say Jozy is almost certainly being bought out, and whether TFC is handling it “correctly” is impossible to judge from the outside, we don’t know what the communications or negotiations really might be.
Suspect there is some sort of potential opportunity for creativity somewhere before Feb 26 that depends on Jozy finding a new home, and whether he is at camp or not is a small piece of the puzzle. Honestly, he cannot afford to get hurt now, if he is looking for a spot, and it may be as simple as him not wanting to take even a small risk of pulling his hamstring or adductor doing wind sprints.
Last edited by ensco; 01-14-2022 at 08:44 AM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I think this is the case. There's no real benefit to the team buying him out now. We lose some leverage with other potential DP targets if Jozy is off the roster, since we could say "fine we'll keep Jozy instead," even if everyone and their mother knows Jozy is gone.
Maybe a Mexican team loses all their strikers to injury and want to bring Jozy on. We come to a mutual agreement to buy him out and maybe save 500k to let him leave early. Maybe Jozy thinks he has the chance to make the USMNT for the World Cup and is desperate for minutes, so agrees to a lower buyout to let him leave now.
Pretty much every reporter has said Jozy will be gone (Fabrizio, Davidson, etc.). I think we need to come to terms with that.
I would hope they do it before the 31st. That way he's eligible to sign for a European team as free agent after the window closes should one be interested.