When BMO opens up for TFC games?

[Red CB Toronto]

I realize these playoffs are making you very excited. But you’re not making any sense, after you made lots of sense for many months. People would freak because no other indoor entertainment is allowed for fans at the moment, and hardly anything outdoors either. Hardly anybody is fully vaccinated, and some Buffalo loophole that a few hundred people might use isn’t going to affect policy decisions about allowing fans inside. Plus you’re considered fully vaccinated minimum two weeks after your second dose, and the playoff series starts tomorrow. No Ontario institution will provide a full vaccination certificate to anyone right now.

After more than a year in a pandemic, most people realize that nothing in this is just one person’s choice. Unless they agree not to go to the hospital or doctor if they get sick, and also won’t let anyone they infect go to the hospital or doctor either. Hospitals have not been able to start rescheduling any of the thousands of cancer surgeries and other treatments yet that had to be delayed due to the third wave. 40% of Ontario nurses are planning to quit due to extreme overload and burnout. Playoff hockey isn’t a significant concern at the moment.

A month from now things will look very different, but allowing fans indoors won’t be first on the list.

That did not come off right, I am not hockey guy at all, could care less, its just I could really see some push back if the Habs are allowed to have a small reduced crowd from those that are fatigued. Doug Ford just annoys the heck out of me, makes my blood boil at times because there sometimes no rhyme or reason to what he is saying. I think everything stops and starts with being fully vaccinated. I do wonder how they are going to reconcile someone's vaccine record if they do have one dose here and the other is the US. If some one is fully vaccinated in Ontario right now, would they not have their certificate from the Ministry of Health? i have my first does one that was sent to me the moment the pharmacist checked me out from my appointment.

[OgtheDim]

I think some people who love the Leafs & watch hockey every night & think its the bestest bestest sport ever don't quite realise that a lot of people don't care about the Leafs as much as they do.

Of course, this could change if the media chain run by the hedge fund that runs the National Enquirer decides to go all in on "BUT ITS THE LEAFS" but I'm not sure how that will go over.

****************

Regardless, the landscape in Ontario is going to change in the next couple of days as the province announces how/when the lockdowns are going to end. I'm not sure a journalist is going to use a very precious question at that event (they only get 4 in total) to ask about the Leafs - they might ask at a science table presser where they get more question time, although if the science table isn't buying into the releasing of lockdown pressure, they may not have a presser.

Fans at pro sports is way down the list of priorities right now.

[Red CB Toronto]

I think some people who love the Leafs & watch hockey every night & think its the bestest bestest sport ever don't quite realise that a lot of people don't care about the Leafs as much as they do.

Of course, this could change if the media chain run by the hedge fund that runs the National Enquirer decides to go all in on "BUT ITS THE LEAFS" but I'm not sure how that will go over.

****************

Regardless, the landscape in Ontario is going to change in the next couple of days as the province announces how/when the lockdowns are going to end. I'm not sure a journalist is going to use a very precious question at that event (they only get 4 in total) to ask about the Leafs - they might ask at a science table presser where they get more question time, although if the science table isn't buying into the releasing of lockdown pressure, they may not have a presser.

Fans at pro sports is way down the list of priorities right now.

I have always wondered, doctors have a hippocratic oath so for the chief medical officer of a county, state etc in the US that have their medical obligations how did things open so fast in some places. I get that Florida, Texas are nuts but even some of the level headed states like New York have things opens. A lot of this was going on even before the vaccine roll out got on track. What has Canada done wrong that we can not even take part in outdoor activities and so on that pose little risk at this point and those to the south can do all sorts of things and have been since the fall. My frustration has been that we did not go full lockdown right out of the gate, no one was even on the streets and nip this quick like Australia for example. We let this thing drag on.

[ensco]

The Leafs are just a metaphor, the proximate cause for the dam to break. That story, that they are finally going to acknowledge and permit people to go to the US to get vaccinations, that is all you need to know about the immense pressure the government are under.

I see all kinds of signs in my business and personal life that people are near the end of their willingness to stay in full lockdown solely because others in society are idiots. We have reached almost the end of the "well if we allow X, even though X is mostly safe, it'll lead to Y" type policy.

As an example I am aware of a group of dozens (maybe hundreds) of retailers and restauranteurs that are discussing a unified defiance, with a media blitz and branding, where they will reopen patios for a couple of weeks, then after that indoors at about 25% of capacity. They will all have HEPA and are assembling their own science, just basewd on what other serious countries are doing or have done. I don't think they are kidding either, they are just going to do it pretty soon. With or without Doug Ford.

They are going to have to move to allowing X and having more severe penalties for Y, if they want to keep the public on board.

I predict the Jays and TFC are playing home games in Toronto in 4 weeks, with at least some fans.

[OgtheDim]

Lets see what happens on Thursday / Friday but the next hurdle seems to be the 20% of people fully vaccinated metric the feds put out. The province seems to be focusing on getting out the 1st dose as far down the age chain as they can. Looking like mid July for 20% fully (including the 2 week after metric I'm seeing of late).

BTW, the AZ people I was talking about up thread - postponed until mid June. Basically moved from 10 weeks to 14 weeks. There's going to be a bit of pressure from boomers building in the next few weeks about second shots being cancelled.

[Red CB Toronto]

Lets see what happens on Thursday / Friday but the next hurdle seems to be the 20% of people fully vaccinated metric the feds put out. The province seems to be focusing on getting out the 1st dose as far down the age chain as they can. Looking like mid July for 20% fully (including the 2 week after metric I'm seeing of late).

BTW, the AZ people I was talking about up thread - postponed until mid June. Basically moved from 10 weeks to 14 weeks. There's going to be a bit of pressure from boomers building in the next few weeks about second shots being cancelled.

I wonder if the provincial government will feel any pressure regarding the 50,000 AZ doses that expire in Ontario at the end of the month. I believe they are still in freezers at the various pharmacies from when first doses were suspended. Are ether waiting on having a more definitive stance regarding mixing first and second doses to give people their options? The 250,000 the province has recently received expire at the end of August so the pressure is not on those yet. Getting people fully vaccinated will go a long way in opening anything up.

The more I think about it Ontario will be able to see how the first few weeks go in Quebec and can build from there, but I have to believe the framework is in place internally.

[leedsandTFC]

cases starting to plummet last couple days, but still way too high

[Oldtimer]

Things can change quickly on the fly as we have learned with this government. Health updates sometimes mean very little to Doug at times.

This was the Federal Government speaking, not Provincial. Federal government is in charge of border controls, and currently is not allowing sports teams across the border without quarantine. Provincial governments are in charge of sports venues, but they can't do anything without Federal co-operation.

[ensco]

This was the Federal Government speaking, not Provincial. Federal government is in charge of border controls, and currently is not allowing sports teams across the border without quarantine. Provincial governments are in charge of sports venues, but they can't do anything without Federal co-operation.

If anyone thinks the US is giving us any more vaccine (AZ or otherwise) without significant movement by us on the border issue... they would be mistaken, imho

(In reality the US can break us over their knee any time they feel like it over this issue, we would have no choice but to do as they say...)

https://www.wkbw.com/rebound/report-...-canada-border

[ag futbol]

^ One wonders if the pipeline issue with Michigan is just political horse trading. For such a critical piece of infrastructure, it’s off-beat to have these sorts of issues raised at the 11th hour. Maybe it’s a ploy to have the border more open at a pretty key trade crossing.

Then again, the hack of colonial pipeline suggests my faith in the competency of others might be greatly misplaced

[Canary10]

I've said many times, the border arrangement expires in two days. Commentators are saying it will be renewed by Friday. We'll know by end of the week. Nothing happens for the Blue Jays or TFC if they renew the agreement as is, as expected.

[benito]

Watching the FA Cup now the Coppa Italia finals with fans in the stands is really making miss seeing a live match. Can't wait to get back to BMO!

[Red CB Toronto]

If anyone thinks the US is giving us any more vaccine (AZ or otherwise) without significant movement by us on the border issue... they would be mistaken, imho

(In reality the US can break us over their knee any time they feel like it over this issue, we would have no choice but to do as they say...)

https://www.wkbw.com/rebound/report-...-canada-border

Yeah because the closure of the Canadian-US land border is completely on Canada. The US at the tine gave the feds what they wanted, surprised Canada did not go a far was air travel, guess that was too much of an ask. It will open up on Canada's cue, it is obviously not a major issue being worked on daily at the state department. I was a little surprised after Canada said that driving across the border for a vaccine shot was deemed essential and how quickly the US came back at said it was not. This has to be them applying pressure for the border to be open3d because I can not seem them caring all that much otherwise. Getting more AZ shots they need would have to be part of a reporting strategy. Could the US open the border their way regardless of what we are doing?

[OgtheDim]

I've said many times, the border arrangement expires in two days. Commentators are saying it will be renewed by Friday. We'll know by end of the week. Nothing happens for the Blue Jays or TFC if they renew the agreement as is, as expected.

Yes

&

This time they are expected to sign it for 1 month only, as against 2 months.


July is in play here


https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...e-21-1.5433345

[Red CB Toronto]

This was the Federal Government speaking, not Provincial. Federal government is in charge of border controls, and currently is not allowing sports teams across the border without quarantine. Provincial governments are in charge of sports venues, but they can't do anything without Federal co-operation.

If its two Canadian teams playing' its up to the province to decide how to proceed, Quebec has said yes to limited fans in the stands and while Alberta and Manitoba have said no at this time. Reading between the lines Jason Kenney suggests he was not a fan of the extreme lockdown measures Quebec took to get to where they are now.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...-oilers-arena/

[Canary10]

Yes

&

This time they are expected to sign it for 1 month only, as against 2 months.


July is in play here


https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...e-21-1.5433345

That's great! I hadn't seen that update. Thanks! July would be awesome, even just to get them playing at home with no supporters.

[OgtheDim]

That's great! I hadn't seen that update. Thanks! July would be awesome, even just to get them playing at home with no supporters.

I was thinking the same thing - we shall see. But the pressure is building & July seems a doable.

[Red CB Toronto]

Yesterday Ontario administered 145,461 vaccinations, up from 109,032 the day before.

Ontario has to administer an average of between 92,403 and 136,524 vaccines per day in order to have every eligible person fully vaccinated by the end of September. The range represents using single-dose vs double-dose vaccines. Ontario has yet to administer any single-dose vaccines. Ontario needs to administer an average of 180,494 vaccines per day to have everyone receive at least one dose by June 20.

Here’s a breakdown of the numbers:

- There are approximately 12,931,165 people eligible for vaccination in Ontario.
- 456,784 people are thus far fully vaccinated (3.5%)
- 6,518,070 people are currently awaiting their second dose (50.4%), including about 850,000 who took AZ as their first shot.
- 5,956,311 have yet to receive any vaccine at all (46.1%)

Therefore 12,474,381 to 18,430,692 vaccinations still need to be administered for every eligible person to be fully vaccinated. The range represents single vs double dose vaccines. There are 135 days left until October 1, 2021 (federal target). There are 33 days left until June 20, 2021 (provincial target)

If to be fully vaccinated requires everyone to have 2 doses then Ontario is currently 28.7% of the way through our vaccination program.

*these numbers do not take into account people who choose not to be vaccinated for any reason and those who die between now and Oct. 1, 2021 prior to being vaccinated. Some other factors/variables are also not considered, such as immigration, or those who get vaccinated abroad. They include everyone 12 years of age and older.

[Red CB Toronto]

So Ontario is expected to announce that the 45,000 AZ doses that are due to expire at the end of the month are going to be made available for second doses. While 12 weeks after your first doses seems to give better efficacy overall the vaccine is approved for a 4 - 12 week interval range. AZ was first made available for use on March 12, initially for ages 60-64 so those who got their jabs in March would be closer to 12 weeks than 4 weeks. These doses for the most part are randomly spread around pharmacies that had doses on hand when the halt was made. I know of one that had about 200 available that barely got any bookings, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next week or so. There are another 250,000 doses that the Ontario government has on hand that expire at the end of August. They are part of the 650,000 Canada received recently. If Canada get the 2.3 million people who got AZ for their first doses fully vaccinated that would get them about 10% of those eligibly in the country. I got my first dose on April 20th, the first day for the over 40 crowd so would only be about 6 weeks since my shot. I also have to think they may only use the 45K on those that got it in March or something.

I believe its about 20 million in total (not sure if those aged 12-16 are included). Trudeau has said it would take getting to 20% fully vaccinated to get the border opened. Their is still a lot of work to be done but their is light at the end of the tunnel. The issue of mixing first and second doses is an entire other issue that has to be figured out as I am sure some of the 2.3M will want to know their options before taking their second shot.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2021/05/19/ontario-will-give-second-shots-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-source.html

[Red CB Toronto]

Check out this tweet at [URL]https://twitter.com/robertbenzie/status/1395096731331743746[/URL]

[Blindside16]

I have always wondered, doctors have a hippocratic oath so for the chief medical officer of a county, state etc in the US that have their medical obligations how did things open so fast in some places. I get that Florida, Texas are nuts but even some of the level headed states like New York have things opens. A lot of this was going on even before the vaccine roll out got on track. What has Canada done wrong that we can not even take part in outdoor activities and so on that pose little risk at this point and those to the south can do all sorts of things and have been since the fall. My frustration has been that we did not go full lockdown right out of the gate, no one was even on the streets and nip this quick like Australia for example. We let this thing drag on.

Had we gone into a fully proper lockdown and stopped all international flights in and out we would be where Australia and New Zealand are not. Both provincial and federal governments have stumbled their way through the handling of this pandemic

[OgtheDim]

Confirmed border closed until June 21st for non-essential

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1395408489984446473

[Red CB Toronto]

Confirmed border closed until June 21st for non-essential

Check out this tweet at https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1395408489984446473

Not surpassing. I figure there could be one more 1 month extension with an eye towards an August 1st opening. The US could start to apply some pressure here especially if the border state governors really start to push for it, thus are in Biden and Blinken's ear. Doug's argument that the border being opening to the extent it has is the key reason for spread it totally wrong, the numbers show it. I have always felt the closing of the border was mostly driven by Canada, but opening it up could be used to get us more vaccines as some have suggested.

[OgtheDim]

Phase 1 to start June 14

Phase 2 - 3 weeks later


In THEORY

First home TFC game Saturday July 17

[leedsandTFC]

full stadiums likely from beginning off august based on that.

10 home games from then on too

[Red CB Toronto]

I assume the percentage of those that have received their first dose is those that are eligible vs the province's over population? With the 12-17 age group not included I wonder if they will be a hindrance to getting to the thresholds that province wants? Also what is the percentage the province expects before things really slow down. I expect the percentage of of those that get one shot vs being fully vaccinated to be pretty similar. The J&J would really give the province the fully vaccinated boost they desire in one swoop.

Phase 1 to start June 14

Phase 2 - 3 weeks later


In THEORY

First home TFC game Saturday July 17

[Blindside16]

full stadiums likely from beginning off august based on that.

10 home games from then on too

I am still doubtful that we see full stadiums this year. I would assume that MLSE would most likely err on the side of caution and go with limited capacity for at least the end of the regular season.

[leedsandTFC]

I assume the percentage of those that have received their first dose is those that are eligible vs the province's over population? With the 12-17 age group not included I wonder if they will be a hindrance to getting to the thresholds that province wants? Also what is the percentage the province expects before things really slow down. I expect the percentage of of those that get one shot vs being fully vaccinated to be pretty similar. The J&J would really give the province the fully vaccinated boost they desire in one swoop.

....

[leedsandTFC]

I am still doubtful that we see full stadiums this year. I would assume that MLSE would most likely err on the side of caution and go with limited capacity for at least the end of the regular season.

what's this based on?

1/4 capacity against full capacity for the final 10 home games will cost them millions of dollars.

after investing heavily in the team to get bums in seats, hard to see them not opening to capacity the second they get the ok from all levels of govt.


edit to say that by august we'll at 80%+ first shot and 40% 2nd shot. it will be very safe to open an outdoor stadium to capacity, and they would not give the ok if there was any indication it wasn't.

[Red CB Toronto]

what's this based on?

1/4 capacity against full capacity for the final 10 home games will cost them millions of dollars.

after investing heavily in the team to get bums in seats, hard to see them not opening to capacity the second they get the ok from all levels of govt.


edit to say that by august we'll at 80%+ first shot and 40% 2nd shot. it will be very safe to open an outdoor stadium to capacity, and they would not give the ok if there was any indication it wasn't.

It's not just about people in their seats, you have to take into consideration the flow of people on the concourses, getting into the stadium and for that matter the area around the BMO Field. BMO Field presents challenges as many of us know there are train tracks between the the stadium and King Street. That tunnel would be a nightmare. The city would not want anyone going through it in mass. I think the province in partnership with the city will totally err on the side of caution with any sporting events, concerts etc. I think being fully vaccinated will be a requirement to attend at least early on. 25% capacity would be 7,500. I think even at that level someone who wants to go will have no problem getting a ticket, there will a lot of people who would not go anywhere near something like attending a soccer game even during the summer.

By the time the Reds could possibly return in late July/early August the number of fully vaccinated should rise greatly I assume. I really believe caution will be the driving force behind this by all involved. We are not going to see the packed house the Texas Rangers did for their home opener vs. the Jays anytime soon in these parts.