Oliver Platt's article on which CB's have won MLS Cup is quite illuminating here
https://www.wakingthered.com/2019/4/...entre-back-mls
What is really amazing is how small the group of defenders that have provided those qualities is. In the past 11 finals, only two winners (Sporting KC and Atlanta) have not had one of Drew Moor, Chad Marshall, Nat Borchers or Omar Gonzalez in their lineup. And Atlanta had a four-time runner-up in Parkhurst as well as Larentowicz, who won as a midfielder in 2010.
Jut thinking out loud, if Cardiff drops, which looks likely, would Junior Hoilett be available? What would everyone think of bringing him in?
Hoilett would be good but unlikely at TAM unless Bradley moves to TAM in 2020 and we do a half season Zlatan-type deal from July to seasons end for Hoilett then DP in 2020 onward.
But if that was the plan I think we could do much better than Hoilett with a DP spot.
I always saw Mavinga as a complement to Moor.
From what I could gather, the braintrust honestly thought coming out of 2017 that Zaveletta was going to become the Moor guy by 2020. Remember he started a good chunk of 2017 as the RCB in a 3-5-2.
That ship has sailed, caught on fire & gone to the bottom of Lake Ontario.
Another week goes by and no signing.
I think Omar Gonzalez is coming in the summer.
Hopefully the winger comes in the next week or so otherwise they will have to wait for the summer to add two players and the schedule is pretty rough in May.
Spot on.
Mavinga is very good and hasn’t mentally checked out, and he’s an important defensive piece for us. While Moor is one of the reasons our defense was awful (he was out injured), Mavinga also spent the majority of the season injured as well.
In MLS, you don’t get the option of buying a complete defender. The best you can often do is buy a proven MLS defender who is aging. They also need to fit the defensive system... if we had two Moors at the back we’d be eaten alive by any team with some pace.
Mavinga is a strong, fast CB with great passing and effective in the buildup. Very few MLS defenders have a highlight reel like he does. He’s a risk/reward player, and the upside is a lot better than that he sometimes makes mistakes (like every defender).
If you look around the league you’ll see a lot of bad defenders and bad defenses. Ciman is the kind of player who most teams would love to have as a backup, and nephew is nephew — he’s basically the type of CB that starts on a lot of MLS teams.
Moor is probably set for retirement soon, Ciman as well (and he’s not really the cooler head CB we need in that role, as he’s also a good passer, has some height, etc.), so the CB they’re picking up needs to be the Moor replacement.
The GK situation is well-known at this point, but our RB situation is still a bit of a mess due to VdW, and while Morrow was successful playing the LB role in the past he hasn’t come back from his injury any better. A lot of teams are exploiting these gaps as well. Auro isn’t great on defense, and he’s our starting RB. Laryea hasn’t looked bad, but he’s also not a head-turner at the back.
Our cup winning team was a perfect storm that were unlikely to see again because we will need to replace essential pieces in the future. Without injuries, our back line isn’t bad at all on paper.
Vanney wants to play beautiful, fluid, possession-based football but he doesn’t have all the pieces. Even a team with all the money in the world, all the facilities, the allure of a top coach, etc. don’t always pull it off. I don’t blame Vanney, but I wonder if he has too much confidence in the team they’ve assembled.
People here both looked at NYRB and Atlanta as ways to build a team, but both look dire right now for them. Things may click for them, and we may look worse than our record indicates, but who knows. There’s really no easy solution in MLS.
I still stand by NYRB as a good model. Maybe no MLS Cup but enough shields and a consistent run of good seasons since like 2010.
You’re missing the point.
If we were sitting in second to last place (or last place) this season, do you think conversations about the team would be remotely on the same level?
What I’m saying is that MLS is complicated.
NYRB won the shield last year and are in second to last place in the East. Cup winners ATL are in last (after some big transfers). Both NYRB and ATL fans are positively fuming about the direction and performance of their teams. Both lost a good player. Neither had a great performance in CCL. Both have entirely different philosophies. MTL is in second and their supporters are basically suffering the apocalypse and want to crucify the cheese monger.
If TFC adopted the NYRB strategy of unknown players, academy products, a distant (and fairly empty) stadium in another state (even if it’s transit friendly), etc., TFC would currently be begging to join the CPL.
“That’s so metro” isn’t a meme for nothing.
NYRB changed their coach to somebody who was supposed to keep the same approach & then didn't. Same issue in Atlanta. I'm trying to think of a successful move from one manager to another where the team didn't have to be taken apart - Columbus is trying to do so & might succeed but nobody else seems to have figured this out.
Teams can have a recruitment approach but if the manager doesn't buy into the "identity", won't do much good until things have settled.
Which is why coaching stability is paramount in this league.
Last edited by OgtheDim; 04-26-2019 at 08:12 PM.
We had the same coach and simultaneously had incredible and abysmally awful seasons.
Viera has been shit-tier at Nice but NYCFC did well consistently. Bob Bradley couldn’t manage a Ligue 2 team to promotion and he’s heading up what looks to be the best MLS club this season.
Almost like there’s a variety of factors involved in a team’s success?🙄
The point you're missing is that you're basing everything off one season. Injuries and other factors can derail a season fast and since NYRB pre-Armas survived a few managers, I think their system is sound.
No, I’m saying that a variety of approaches can lead to success, but that success (or a lack thereof) is largely a result of a combination of things rather than one.
There’s no silver bullet strategy. I was never denying that the NYRB have had a form of success long-term, but rather that long-term success to people on supporters forums is different than other metrics of success, and all it takes is one thing going wrong to upset the balance and derail a season.
If we won the shield every year with a scrappy bunch of academy products on a shoe string budget every person on this forum would likely be happy. There’s numerous reasons that wouldn’t work at TFC though, and the casual fans and general public really don’t care how many shields you have, unfortunately.
Assembling “the greatest MLS team” of all time after a decade of being the worst, with even people overseas taking notice is a form of success that even a perennial shield winning NYRB would love to have instead of choking out of the playoffs every year in an embarrassing fashion an empty stadium in New Jersey. I sat through the dire years too, and I’ve been to more than enough NYRB games... I’m not sure I’d trade it for all the shields in the world.
Never winning a cup isn’t success by certain metrics. Winning the shield is in others. Filling a stadium for decades with incredibly high ticket prices while sucking is in others.
Look at Madrid or Barca recently, or United and City. They’re all successful clubs from some perspective, but it came in different forms and different methods of producing a team.
Thank you kristian jack for calling out front office for lack of signings, during the game.
Hey a big signing is only 2-3 weeks away!! (since February)
It's a long shot but with Cardiff very likely relegated wonder if Hoilett is ready for something different rather than some more of the Championship grind? His contract expires June 2020, maybe Cardiff would be willing to loan to the end of MLS season? He's on wages of 1.8 USD so would take some work to get him in on a TAM deal.
Last edited by SirBobSaget; 04-27-2019 at 05:21 PM.