I don't know the CBA inside and out but I think you could pull this off but it would involve trust. I don't think the league would allow the current deals to be ripped up and raised. So you would just have to sign 3 one year extensions then the team would have to trust the players to resign a year later to the lower nudge, nudge, wink, wink TAM deals and the players would have to trust that we would still offer those deals. Technically, this way, there is nothing to disallow.
However it'd be pretty shitty if they tossed like $18M at Seba for a year and then when it came time to sign the TAM years to balance it, he walked.
We are also seeing the fact that we have not gone through this kind of negotiation before, because we have not had the success. Nothing the players have said is particularly outrageous, but it is surprising that there is no management message out there, except for implausible leaks about what Jozy and Seba have asked to get in a new deal. If they stay they are DP's, they are not going to be less than that, so it is a bit unlike hockey where what Marner gets someone else cannot get. So the exact amount might matter to the clubs bottom line (and to the players) but not to the strength of the roster because the cap hit is the same. Will they both be worth being DP's in 2020? I'd think so. 2022? Likely not. That should be the discussion.
Personally, as I said above, Id love them to stay and to retire as reds - Seba especially, I think Jozy is going to be poached by someone else. It isn't quite clear to me why a million or two dollars would now be such an issue for MLSE.
I really don't think it is. I think it's about on field issues. We are one of the slower teams in the league and it can be an issue as we've seen. We do need to address that. The question is how.
That being said I think we give Giovinco his deal. Maybe not for more $$$ but something in his present range. Whether he accepts it, who knows but him. Bradley I feel they would like to resign but I am not sure they want him at that number. I think Altidore is gone and by summer. I have a feeling they would like the full squad through the CCL and then if need be, sell in the summer window. Or if everyone hammers through the first half looking healthy and fantastic with an actual off season under their belts then maybe they get the final big pay day here.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Any operating loss would likely an account from the amortization of the BMO reno and training facility. Im not sure they care about the paper loss when they are likely have a positive cash flow.
I don't think they care about the spending less. I think they care about getting younger and more versatile tactically. Like all leagues in all sports, when a successful formula pops up it gets copied. Atlanta (mainly) & LAFC have shown the benefits of buying young talent. They are younger, faster, and technically these players could be around for a decade and still be good players. The selling on possibilities are also something to consider but we'd probably want to hold on to anyone good just like Atlanta does.
Could be. That’s a different business model. One that Manning has no experience leading btw
One thing I will bet on - suits will be highly interested in NYRB spend/model, as it “appears” less risky (but in reality is harder to execute)
Frankly hiring Curtis is pretty compelling evidence that we are going the NYRB route
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
I think the real deal negotiations will start now that the squad is assembled. That's how they did Osorio last year when the same questions came up about him (last year of contract). He did exactly what you expect from a player in that situation and he was rewarded. There is precedent for earning your contract and then getting it with TFC.
This is what I would like to see us do as well but still splash in some higher priced guys. It's a successful way, hard to do, but successful and helps with the cap. However that's not going to happen any time soon. The whole academy needs to be overhauled and has to start producing legit MLS (or better talent) before that happens. If you can pump out solid HGs consistently like NYRB does then you can be competitive for years and years.
Exactly this!
They also have a reputation for treating their players well during their time, so I don't understand why they have daggers drawn, here.
I think any player in MLS should know that the league, with all it's quirky rules, plays a huge role in how a club can go about negotiations, especially in the areas they simply can NOT afford to get wrong, such like your DP contracts—common sense, you might say…
If they weren't losing money, these guys wouldn't be on the way out IMO.
I think they do.
They need to expand the stadium by at least 10K, along with other infrastructure expansion, so more big expenses are coming and I'm sure they'd like to claw back in other areas if they can.
Guys might be on the way out because they are getting older, slower and in some cases, injured often. Since no replacements are even being mentioned it's all the usual assuming MLSE will turn super cheap, which they never have by the way. They could easily go out and splash another $20M on 3 new guys just as easily as they could load up on young TAM level guys.
Also, pretty stupid to cut all your stars out of a team, run lean and still expand by 10k when you don't even sell out every match while being successful.
Honestly I don’t see hiring Curtis as evidence of anything other than they had a GM post they needed for fill. Perhaps you could say they liked what he did with their Academy and realize they are underperforming here in comparison. That was a point of discussion from day 1 they’ve been pretty open about.
But in terms of DP spending? The team’s overall budget? It means nothing. When you’re the highest spending club in the league every candidate you bring in with existing experience in the league is going to come from a team that spends less. Even if we opened it up to the clubs that spend close to what we do (NYC, Seattle, LAFC) nobody in those positions are moving. So it’s either go with someone global and hear groans about if the experience translates (or fits with the rest of a MLS-experience heavy staff) or we get someone like this guy.
I don't like the way this is being handled at all. What is Manning playing at? He chased out Bez so he could bring in a puppet like Curtis.
Add to that the fact he has done shit all this off- season I'm very worried about this year.. esp with CCL
I’m not sure. But regardless, it’s a different organization with different owners / incentives. He’s ultimately working with whatever upper management directs him to do / what the budget is he has to work with.
If we were going to immediately kill our budget I doubt we go out and blow several million dollars last year on a Spanish pylon with a cannon for a left foot and luxury-part RB.
I would hate to see Jozy go, but the reality of him coming to Toronto was we needed to unload a big contract in Defoe and Sunderland were willing to swap Jozy, a proven MLS player in return and we took it.
Jozy was never worth that money, we all said it and here we are today with the club acknowledging that as well.
There is no denying what he's done for us and I'd love for him to stay - but as I said in a previous post - he ain't worth 5x more than what other non-injury prone DP's in the league are making. I bet TFC want him at 1-2m max and he thinks he's worth more.
When healthy - I'd take him at more, but in his entire time here - he's been injured for large portions of the season. And now that he's getting on in years, there's no proof it'll be any different.
BWP averages 2659 minutes a season
Jozy averages 1588
That alone tells you something
Last edited by jabbronies; 01-21-2019 at 01:04 PM.
I don't like having things unsettled a month before CCL but if you look around MLS, most teams are still figuring out roster moves and are far from set. This earlier season start time will be causing some havoc later.
Mostly assembled but I'm agree with this line of thinking. Osorio was the Golden boot winner in the CCL. Seba the Golden Ball winner. If we see another big CCL campaign & a good start to the MLS season, expect pressure to mount on management. But its up to the DP's to apply that pressure - which to be fair is pretty much what Seba & Jozy have been saying.
Jozy is a proven winner. Yes, you could replace him for less, but its a considerable risk. Could easily get a million dollar striker who doesnt
score. There are lots of those around too.
I wonder if last years failed transfers are having an impact on Mannings instructions from above?
Alexis MacAllister sold to Brighton. $8MMish USD.
Brighton have signed 20-year-old Argentine prospect Alexis Mac Allister from Argentinos Juniors, where he will return on loan until June.
The Seagulls unloaded around £6m on the young midfielder but have allowed him to remain in Argentina for a further six months in order to process paperwork that will allow him to claim an EU passport.