Matchday 33: Montreal at TFC 2 pm TSN4

[ag futbol]

This is somewhat fair, but then you have to put into context the overall characteristics behind the two sides (Dallas vs. TFC). Gilberto, despite being a DP, is the last place I would look to correct the issues with this team, and he's just about as cheap as they come, anyway (DP's).

I agree that proportionately Gilberto at striker is less problematic than our CB situation, DM situation, or whatever. But that being said, it's a very critical area of the team. Think of Vancouver trying to tough it out without a quality striker. With a great target man, they probably go from yo-yo bubble team to very solidly in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what kind of patience we'd have for these misses if the rest of the team was operating properly. We saw how that went early in the season and the same problems have popped up again later in the year, really only masked by everyone else's really poor play.

[ag futbol]

Is he less effective? Urruti has contributed (through goals + assists) to 11 goals this year, Gilberto 12. And Urruti is playing with the 3rd best offense in the league.

Urruti is more clinical from what we've seen for sure. I don't know that he's more effective. I would wager Gilberto has the potential to be a far more effective player in MLS with a proper team behind him than Urruti could be.

Hold the phone here... Gilberto has played about 600 minutes more than Urruti this season. I think that puts a major dent in Gilberto's numbers by comparison. Let's not forget Urruti played up top by himself while Gilberto played next to another striker, hence the assist number. But I'd concede - from what I've seen - Gilberto is a better at creating chances for others, I'm just not sure that's making up for the occasional cold streak.

[azorean]

I'd be interested to hear why.

Perez is an absolute pest up front and has great holdup play. Urruti is one of the best poachers in the league and is very composed in the box. I find Gilberto to be athletic but bumbling with nowhere near the finishing ability of either of these players.

Perez is injury prone. To me it seems like he floats in and out of games.Gilberto is Much more athletic and looks more lively. Perez looks lazy at times. He can have one great game than you won't hear from him the next few. Perez is a good player but overall Gilberto has the potential to be a much more valuable player. Just my opinion. I would like to see Gilberto on that dallas team with class like Diaz, Castillo, Escobar along side of him. Look at Akindele the rookie on dallas, put him on Toronto, does he have the same success? Don't think he does

[notthesun]

Hold the phone here... Gilberto has played about 600 minutes more than Urruti this season. I think that puts a major dent in Gilberto's numbers by comparison.

He needed time to adjust to the league. Since his first goal their contributions have been easily comparable.

I think it would be a mistake to get rid of him. It would mean rolling the dice on a replacement and more club turmoil. I think we're in a good place by keeping him.

[jloome]

I honestly feel like it's views like this, ignoring plenty of context, that have seen us ship out players of real/decent quality.

To be fair, you're not calling for him to be moved, but, alone, your comment seems to suggest that, all things equal, that's just his quality.. which is unfair.



This.

If we could get what we paid for him, I'd take it. He's not consistent enough as a striker. He has a ton of talent and athleticism, but scoffs too many from close range.

If we don't sell him, I'd play him in the hole instead of Osorio. He's way more dangerous running at defenders and shooting when in space than trying to dink in little headers and crosses. He's a strong dangerous player, so we should keep him; but if someone offered us $3.5M? I'd take it in a freakin' shot. You know how many good CONSISTENT players from S.A. you can get with that? (Likely only two, but maybe more if you're lucky.)

[ag futbol]

He needed time to adjust to the league. Since his first goal their contributions have been easily comparable.

I was of the same line of thinking early in the year. But now that we've seen the same thing resurface later, you have to question whether it's "adjusting" or just a characteristic of his game.

[burlington Red]

re gilberto, his biggest attribute is his work rate, for a DP striker that's not good enough, how about getting a striker for that type of money whose biggest attribute is scoring goals. I like him, but he's not DP quality, that's the bottom team we played today

[notthesun]

If we could get what we paid for him, I'd take it. He's not consistent enough as a striker. He has a ton of talent and athleticism, but scoffs too many from close range.

If we don't sell him, I'd play him in the hole instead of Osorio. He's way more dangerous running at defenders and shooting when in space than trying to dink in little headers and crosses. He's a strong dangerous player, so we should keep him; but if someone offered us $3.5M? I'd take it in a freakin' shot. You know how many good CONSISTENT players from S.A. you can get with that? (Likely only two, but maybe more if you're lucky.)

I was of the same line of thinking early in the year. But now that we've seen the same thing resurface later, you have to question whether it's "adjusting" or just a characteristic of his game.

So many people said that teams around the league had Plata figured out when we traded him. Even started to believe it myself. Oops.

We're too quick to judge some players. It's less of an issue when the player is a role guy. When the guy has talent - Plata, Urruti, Silva - it pretty consistently blows up in our face.

If he wants to be here (which is another question entirely), I say keep him.

[JuliquE]

I was of the same line of thinking early in the year. But now that we've seen the same thing resurface later, you have to question whether it's "adjusting" or just a characteristic of his game.

This is, again, where I feel context comes into it; he's looking unsettled, again.. but, could that not have to do with the whole Defoe saga?

He might pan out, or he might not; our problem, whether we're talking managers or players, has been a lack of consistency -- not giving them a fair shot, under the right circumstances (off the pitch/quality around them). We agree that he's one of our BEST players, and that he COULD give more. My question is: why don't we at least SEE, given our track record?

[Initial B]

Well, there's no hiding what TFC is. This game showed simply that they aren't a playoff team yet.

This is a disaster for Tim Lieweke. He sold the MLSE board and TFC fans on playoffs this year and it has blown up in his face. This will be a major blow to his reputation and will cause any other executive to look askance at any offer to take over TFC. It has damaged the careers of two of the most respected executives in Payne and Lieweke, so any possible candidate for the poisoned chalice of TFC President will avoid us like the plague.

There's going to be a sacrifice for this season. The MLSE board is going to look to scapegoat someone for this season in order to show the casual fan that "something has been done", only to lose the supporters who know better. I expect Vanney is going back to the academy and I don't think even Bez is safe. And they can't show us a plan because nobody is really in charge over there. What a mess.


That said, there's hope - the salary cap is going to be raised by at least $1M, so I'm sure Bez and the scouts will be scouring S.A. for talent they can bring in to increase TFC's quality in time for training camp.

[Waggy]

Well, there's no hiding what TFC is. This game showed simply that they aren't a playoff team yet.

This is a disaster for Tim Lieweke. He sold the MLSE board and TFC fans on playoffs this year and it has blown up in his face. This will be a major blow to his reputation and will cause any other executive to look askance at any offer to take over TFC. It has damaged the careers of two of the most respected executives in Payne and Lieweke, so any possible candidate for the poisoned chalice of TFC President will avoid us like the plague.

There's going to be a sacrifice for this season. The MLSE board is going to look to scapegoat someone for this season in order to show the casual fan that "something has been done", only to lose the supporters who know better. I expect Vanney is going back to the academy and I don't think even Bez is safe. And they can't show us a plan because nobody is really in charge over there. What a mess.


That said, there's hope - the salary cap is going to be raised by at least $1M, so I'm sure Bez and the scouts will be scouring S.A. for talent they can bring in to increase TFC's quality in time for training camp.

He fixed the Raptors in 3 months. His reputation will be fine, if anything it only will continue to grow. All this shows is how fucked TFC is. He thought TFC would be the easier fix than the Raps or Leafs because it's impossible to be THAT bad for that long in MLS. Well. Almost impossible.

[Richard]

Well, there's no hiding what TFC is. This game showed simply that they aren't a playoff team yet.

This is a disaster for Tim Lieweke. He sold the MLSE board and TFC fans on playoffs this year and it has blown up in his face. This will be a major blow to his reputation and will cause any other executive to look askance at any offer to take over TFC. It has damaged the careers of two of the most respected executives in Payne and Lieweke, so any possible candidate for the poisoned chalice of TFC President will avoid us like the plague.

There's going to be a sacrifice for this season. The MLSE board is going to look to scapegoat someone for this season in order to show the casual fan that "something has been done", only to lose the supporters who know better. I expect Vanney is going back to the academy and I don't think even Bez is safe. And they can't show us a plan because nobody is really in charge over there. What a mess.


That said, there's hope - the salary cap is going to be raised by at least $1M, so I'm sure Bez and the scouts will be scouring S.A. for talent they can bring in to increase TFC's quality in time for training camp.

Payne? He did nothing but good for us by helping unload some of the worst contracts in the league. I think his rep is firmly intact, in fact its probably looking very nice with how Urruti is panning out.

[notthesun]

Payne? He did nothing but good for us by helping unload some of the worst contracts in the league. I think his rep is firmly intact, in fact its probably looking very nice with how Urruti is panning out.

He traded Silva for nothing and considering our position heading into it, probably conducted one of the all time worst drafts in league history.

We're now in a position where we need a new RB and a new winger and we could have drafted Farrell and Manneh.

[Richard]

^^ I think on the balance of things he did more positive than negative. I think Silva trade was probably forced on him when TL wanted Forlan, we also still don't know the amount of allocation we got for him. I will give you the draft though, that didn't pan out.

[ensco]

He traded Silva for nothing and considering our position heading into it, probably conducted one of the all time worst drafts in league history.

The draft was horrible, no argument, but the Silva thing is a bit complex.

Leiweke showed up and obviously started talking about making a big splash right away. Don't forget, Payne was trying to impress him, so he says, I'll get you Forlan. To do that, he had to make room.

Would Payne have moved Silva if his job wasn't on the line in terms of getting a big name? I don't know. But bez' subsequent ragging on Silva to several people has always sounded defensive, and makes me wonder.

[notthesun]

The draft was horrible, no argument, but the Silva thing is a bit complex.

Leiweke showed up and obviously started talking about making a big splash right away. Don't forget, Payne was trying to impress him, so he says, I'll get you Forlan. To do that, he had to make room.

Would Payne have moved Silva if his job wasn't on the line in terms of getting a big name? I don't know. But bez' subsequent ragging on Silva to several people has always sounded defensive, and makes me wonder.

Still doesn't excuse him from moving Silva before the Forlan deal was complete (or evidently even anywhere near completion). That's just pure incompetence.

[69Chevy396]

TFC must now be considered the most poorly run club in MLS history.

[OgtheDim]

Better building blocks then last season. Gotta get out of the 4-4-2. And get some midfielders willing to track back.

Osorio hasn't the strength. Kept trying to shape to beat his man and people just went through him for the ball.

[Pookie]

4-3-3 eh?

Probably the system that Winter is using with the U19 Dutch National team.

[WestStandGeoff]

Bendik is a hero for picking up Felipe. That was so awesome, love it. That clown deserved it.

Really was awesome!

And did you see how quickly Filipe jumped up after Joe dumped him on the sidelines? Forget keeper, Joe should be our phisio - that pick-up and placement were easily worth about 20 bottles of "magic spray"!

[Auzzy]

4-3-3 eh?

Probably the system that Winter is using with the U19 Dutch National team.

I was laughing during the game, with the TSN crew harping that TFC don't stand a chance with 4-4-2. I kept remembering how clueless Winter supposedly was, attempting anything but 4-4-2. ("MLS players can't play anything else!")

Anyway, it's not an effin' foosball table, with players stuck in position on a stick once the game starts. If Montreal is crowding the midfield, and TFC's two strikers are hopelessly standing around with no service, why can't TFC find a way to adjust accordingly -- who gives a crap what the starting formation was?

[v00d00daddy]

Sadly, you're right, and make a valid point, regarding us not allowing TFC to see us turn on each other.

That said, I think it's one thing to be angry, as you say you are, but, if I'm honest, I genuinely feel as if you're not often seen during the glorious points in the season -- the epic comebacks and the like -- only to resurface to call for bookings against our boys, or calling them "assholes," etc. I look at the comment you made about being happy for how Oduro's alleged embelishing should shut us up, and I see that as an indirect swipe.. only for you to play all righteous, when someone slightly reacts to it.

Hey, man.. I don't mean to single you out, here, but, for me, it's a clear double-standard. At the end of the day, it's pro sports -- you're not supposed to be all diplomatic and composed about how you support the lads.

All I was getting at is that it makes us look like sucks when we're dishonest about what we see.

How do we joke about Felipe faking (after Osorio purposely stepped on his foot) and being proud of Bendik picking him up while we ignore Oduros constant embellishment and dives? I just can't do both. I don't think its ok because we love this team.

I especially hate it at a time when there are many more important things to worry about instead of bad officiating (which I think actually favoured us this year) and opponents faking shit.

We should be more critical of our team when we suck....especially when it's 8 years and counting.

Again...just my opinion but what this club has done since day one just doesn't deserve love from the supporters. They should feel anger and experience fear.

They should be worried that their desire to make more money is going to suffer greatly, as long as our desire to celebrate our teams success is not properly addressed.

[OgtheDim]

I was laughing during the game, with the TSN crew harping that TFC don't stand a chance with 4-4-2. I kept remembering how clueless Winter supposedly was, attempting anything but 4-4-2. ("MLS players can't play anything else!")

Anyway, it's not an effin' foosball table, with players stuck in position on a stick once the game starts. If Montreal is crowding the midfield, and TFC's two strikers are hopelessly standing around with no service, why can't TFC find a way to adjust accordingly -- who gives a crap what the starting formation was?

Cause most of their chances happened when our midfielders didn't track back. As has been happening since about June.

And Jackson and Oduro don't know how to find spaces and even if they do, they can't pass or shoot worth beans. Creavalle was Ok.


Like it or not, most MLS teams will waltz through a 4-4-2.

[nlsanand]

The ref completely lost the plot. Neither of first two were reds (I acutally thought first red was a second yellow, couldn't believe it). Why was that goal waved off around 80 minutes? They're not showing replay on MLS site. Also, Impact player literally grabbed ball in first half (in anticipation of foul call), nothing was called and this cocksucker didn't even call the handball. These MLS refs are a fucking joke.

[Red4ever]

Just wanna give props to wowza for a spirited effort on the capo stand. Well done whistle to whistle.

[PopePouri]

Cause most of their chances happened when our midfielders didn't track back. As has been happening since about June.

And Jackson and Oduro don't know how to find spaces and even if they do, they can't pass or shoot worth beans. Creavalle was Ok.


Like it or not, most MLS teams will waltz through a 4-4-2.

I disagree with KJ that the formation is the problem. Seattle, LA and RSL use it to full effect. it, however is based on partnerships though (2 CB, 2 strikers, 2 CM) and we don't have that.

[NolbertoS]

Man, tieing lowly Montreal, pretty much sums up TFC's season. At this point, MLSE, has damaged the brand worse than ever. Any other local owners willing to spend wisely and smartly?? I'm not as optimistic going into Year 9. If the Caps make the MLS playoffs, it'll be 2 playoff appearances in a span of 4-5 years. I think MLSE, better send a crew out West to take notes and interchange ideas with the Caps. Some of that BC bud might rub on some players and coaches, and they're doing it with no proven forward. The Caps would've done wonders if they have Gilberto this season. Team needs a thorough report from top to bottom and what's not working. 9 years is too long with futility.

[MightyDM]

Sadly, you're right, and make a valid point, regarding us not allowing TFC to see us turn on each other.

That said, I think it's one thing to be angry, as you say you are, but, if I'm honest, I genuinely feel as if you're not often seen during the glorious points in the season -- the epic comebacks and the like -- only to resurface to call for bookings against our boys, or calling them "assholes," etc. I look at the comment you made about being happy for how Oduro's alleged embelishing should shut us up, and I see that as an indirect swipe.. only for you to play all righteous, when someone slightly reacts to it.

Hey, man.. I don't mean to single you out, here, but, for me, it's a clear double-standard. At the end of the day, it's pro sports -- you're not supposed to be all diplomatic and composed about how you support the lads.

Gutsy, and correct post.

[MightyDM]

No. He looked great, as he generally does. But he missed at least two sitters. As he generally does.

I really like Gilberto. But at the game he looked poor

[jazzy]

I'd be interested to hear why.

Perez is an absolute pest up front and has great holdup play. Urruti is one of the best poachers in the league and is very composed in the box. I find Gilberto to be athletic but bumbling with nowhere near the finishing ability of either of these players.

it's a 4 4 2 with no support , he's hung out to dry by no counter tactics by our coach , (midfield constantly being dominated by Montreal), and yet he still created chased down balls , made excellent passes . On one occasion he was holding up the ball against 2 defenders still looking for support (the slow to react forwards) and when someon finally got into position made a accurate cross into their feet . He was constantly trying to create his own chances , compare that to Defoe who basically gave up waving his arms most second halves .