Yes... They will finanlly get it
No.... They will screw this up royally
hmmm... not sure? how much money will they make from this?
Toronto hosting good amount of games than rest of Canada wouldn't sit well for Canadians outside of GTA. I can see Rogers Centre hosting group stage over BMO field simply because it's bigger stadium (no way Rogers will sit back and not try to get piece of World Cup). Also, 80K stadium will only be built if we can find tenant (Toronto NFL team?) after world cup.Originally Posted by tsn3
From Larson: "He said it was an additional $30-million commitment to make moveable stands a reality."
Who knows what TL will or won't admit to. But you can easily speculate that MLSE said "We don't have a problem with the Argos coming but someone else should help pay for that."
Without that $30 mil, the stands are permanent but you still have room to expand to 40k for the outdoor hockey game. If Larson's quote is true, the 30 mil of public money isn't for hockey.
It's crazy that Canada hasn't had a World Cup yet. The most multicultural country in the world...and it would really help build the sport here. There's so much potential for soccer in Canada, especially now that there are 3 canadian franchises in the MLS and possibly more to come.
I agree with you - but not sure he had anything to do with Blue Jays?
With North American pro sports, if you build it, they will come. See, Oklahoma City (NBA), Jacksonville (NFL), Baltimore (NFL), Cleveland (NFL), Pheonix (NHL) etc etc. It'd be dumb to build the stadium but I don't doubt some intrepid billionaire would find a way to make money off it if it existed
sure, if some billionaire wants to spend his own money on it, fine. But no government should spend that kind of money. It didn't help Hamilton and Quebec City isn't a lock for an NHL team, no matter how much money they spend on the arena.
I personally believe if 60K-80K stadium was to going to be built, then it's going to be built somewhere in 905 region (Mississauga being most logical city to do it). I don't see Toronto proper having another outdoor stadium.
60K-80K Stadium will be used to host major events (like track & field, cricket, soccer and NFL team?).
Taxpayer money will be partly used to build 60k-80k stadium especially if stadium was used to host World Cup.
Last edited by TFC07; 03-16-2014 at 01:03 PM.
I dont think it will cost $30M for the movable stands, it would be less. But saying "it will cost us $30M to adapt the stadium for the Argos with removable stands" - is helping to get that $30M approved from the govmt for "having to look after the Argos and get them a venue". Then, magically once expansion and funding is all approved and construction starts, MLSE buys Argos. Its just leverage for now, and will be to their own benefit a bit later on. Well played MLSE (Disclaimer: i'm not a Toronto/Ontario tax payer!).
Hamilton didn't, but I still think Quebec will get a team once the new stadium opens in a few years. And if it wasn't for Jim Ballsili being a jerk with the NHL Hamilton may well have an NHL team right now
It's obviously not something the public should do. It's stupid. But there are lots of NFL teams who need new stadiums, and if Toronto has one already built...
I'd imagine any stadium that size either has to be in Downsview or outside the city. But I could see Ontario Place too
No way they should build a stadium without an NFL team already owned. However, its WC 2026, some 12 years away. Stadium would take 3-4 yrs to design and build, so 8-9 years before a decision needed at the latest. If Toronto dont own an NFL team by then, then they wouldn't own the Bills, so it may not be likely to happen. If they buy the Bills when Ralph passes away in next few years, then an new 80k stadium is on before a decision on WC2026 happens. WC 2026 bid will be used for leverage for some govmt funding for new NFL stadium - just like Argos/Winter classic/Grey Cup used as leverage now.
I still don't know how Hamilton didn't get a team back in early 90's, they had a stadium ready to go. Instead they went to Ottawa, and played at the ottawa 67's Civic Stadium from 1992 - 1996. It only fit about 10,000 fans a game. I will just use my theory that Toronto Maple Leafs have been paying off money under the table to NHL owners in order to keep any team from moving into Southern Ontario.
It's game playing on his part. Here's some simple questions someone on city council (or in the media) needs to ask:
What would your proposal be in the absence of the Argos being part of this?
What will you do if your request for $30M is denied?
If we're paying for a quarter of it, can we have an option to get a quarter of the profits of (maybe only for events where tickets sales go over 20K)?
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
The story given at the time was that Hamilton wanted to spread out the expansion fee over a few years and Ottawa said they'd pay it all up front. Then, months after the franchise was awarded the Ottawa ownership "renegotiated" and used pretty much exactly the plan Hamilton had offered.
NHL owners are hard to predict. There is a theory floating around that some NHL owners really don't like Peladeau and that may hurt Quebec City's chances.
Not just Toronto, but also Buffalo Sabers who heavily rely on Southern Ontario to sell hockey tickets. Hamilton NHL team would kill Sabers franchise
One of John A's major projects was the Railway. Of course Union station would exist one way or another and today represents more tradition and the role unions played in early 20th century Labour, renaming it would (IMO) diminish that.
my suggestion was in giving a silly response at the end a suggested perhaps naming a street leading to the Distillery district after him might be appropriate.
As for the topic at hand.
I still don't trust it.. Nothing he has said leaves me feeling good. The Argo's choose not to get involved, and retro fitting I just can't see it working well.
It must be TFC's stadium with the Argo's as a secondary tenant. the 30,000 Association football 25,000 Canadian Football makes sense.
the key then is to make sure that you don't alienate TC fans to the point you can't fill the stadium.
yes I know what your saying but at the same time you got to look at the Toronto area. In the GTA and Hamilton greater area you looking at a population of over 6million people. We are apparently the Hockey capital (we are the biggest Canadian city, by far in many cases population wise compared to other Canadian cities, so it only makes sense). So New York ( Rangers in Manhatten, Devils in Newark and Islanders moving to Brooklyn) have 3 teams all within and near New York City, its probably 3rd or 4th biggest sport. Yes the city has over 8 million people, another few hundred thousand in Newark and several millions more surrounding suburbs, but Hockey isn't even the biggest sport in New York City. And same goes with Los Angeles. They have 2 teams, City of LA is 3.8 million people with several millions more in surrounding suburbs. But you got to think if LA area can have 2 teams, New York City area 3 teams surely Toronto region where hockey is the biggest sport can have 2 teams. Buffalo for many is still to far away. Only more of the die hard fans make the trip all the way to Buffalo or people who live close by like Niagra, St catherines area. I think they are still missing a huge fan base in Hamilton, Burlington, Oakville, Misssissauga, Toronto who can not afford or get Leaf tickets and can't make the trip to Buffalo. That includes me, i would go to see a game in Hamilton, but not having a car, I would not make it to Buffalo and its a bit of a mission crossing the border as well.
Last edited by james; 03-16-2014 at 03:05 PM.
Government money on stadiums and other corporate welfare is inexcusable in my opinion.
As an aside, did I miss an announcement where MLSE actually bought the Argos?
Interesting because when the CSA holds games there, MLSE only makes money off stadium operations nothing off tickets, etc. What is in it for MLSE right now to push forward to make the home of the Argos, a team it does not yet own?
There is an "Argos Clause" in the existing agreement which basically means that MLSE doesn't have to fork out a penny for stadium improvements to house the Argos.
There must be some lucrative discussions underway for MLSE to commit this kind of money to house what is at present, someone else's team.
That's a very good point actually. My guess is they plan to own the Argos.
It's not solely about housing (or even owing) the Argos. It's also about outdoor hockey games, and making BMO a multi-use cash cow. I'm certain MLSE will fack it up, and we will have to deal with all the compromises. I wouldn't be surprised if the new hybrid turf is replaced with a completely artificial surface within 5-10 yrs, because BMO will no longer be soccer specific, and they will sell it as a facility upgrade. Totally agree with you that no public funds should be used.
Chicken or egg?
A NFL team isn't going to move to Toronto without a stadium. You can't have a World Cup without a new 80,000 stadium.
But what happens if a miracle takes place and Canada wins the WC bid but there's no NFL team, you let the stadium become a white elephant?
Are taxpayers going to build a stadium just for a World Cup?
But if it is built for a World Cup, a NFL team just got a stadium built for them for free. And it would still take a sweetheart lease to get them to move to Toronto. I mean the city would need a team more than the team needs a building.
So having said that, no NFL team is coming and building their own stadium. HAHAHAHA
And are Canadians going to chip in to build a stadium for Torontonians? HAHAHA They'll say let your city and your crackhead mayor pay for it.
Last edited by Whoop; 03-16-2014 at 03:53 PM.
They'll end up hosting 4-5 outdoor games a year. That was a theory raised by ensco and it's a good one. They can't sellout the ACC more and they can't raise ticket prices just yet so they'll play a few games at BMO and make a killing.
There are so many ways to market it. One Winter Class, a Heritage Game, Stadium Series... Or something different like a Rival Series or Original 6 series.
it didn't help Kansas City either...but they are doing just fine
It can work if your city can fill it with many concerts and other entertainment in the building. But we are talking about a 80,000 seat stadium, they won't have concerts and events every week. They would be lucky to get a few events in an entire year. In a NFL stadium you need a team, in a 20,000 seat stadium you might get by hosting other events.
Anyone see the $82 million dollar stadium that was built by the city of Stockton, California. Capacity is something like 11,000. Its a really nice stadium actually, google Stockton Arena. Anyways I don't even know what the city was thinking when they built this. They couldn't get any major sports teams, and they had barely any concerts come to play in the city. This plus many other major projects that were a complete mistake led the city to bankruptcy. Now today according to USA murder rates of cities bigger then 250,000 people, Stockton (population around 300,000) is now ranked the 7th highest murder rate city in USA, with 23.7 murders per 100,000 (worse then cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, Philly, Atlanta and Chicago). Anyways stadiums aren't always a good thing, just don't be like Stockton, lol.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/repor...llion-upgrade/
Old news here but this is the line that is driving the quickness of the expansion:
“We’re going to give [the NHL] a very aggressive pitch and presentation on why for the Maple Leafs’ 100th anniversary, the 2018 Winter Classic would make sense in a renovated BMO Field,” Leiweke said.
Wasn't the 2017 Classic being targeted before? That would actually be during the 100th year, but I guess these kind of things usually happen after 100 years is completed. 2018 gives a good amount time though, almost 4 full years.
Could be an error. Maybe he meant 2017...whatever the case, Winter Classic is high on the priority list here. They are filling the needs of two sports with one solution.
Upgrade BMO Field - bring in more revenue for TFC and get the Winter Classic in.
QUESTION FOR THE GROUP - Is there a solution out there for keeping the players warm during cold spells? Some sort of heating system maybe from the ground up?
If TFC are serious about being competitive they should start to think about playing in cold weather. MLS Playoffs run through November and Champions League starts early March.
if they are renoing, would make sense to think about how they deal with those conditions. You can't have guys running around in shorts in -26 weather - although that could happen this weekend!!!!
What I find interesting in Larson's comments is two options exist.
They have either gone to the city and said, look we want to spend this much money to upgrade BMO for Soccer and hockey. If you want the Argo's to play there then we need $30 million more, and here is how that will look, because we have to make the North and South stands retractable.
Or they went to the city and said ok we know you want the Argo's to play there, and here is our 25,000 seat adjustment where we can to something for 40,000 if we have to for hockey. Out Soccer Fans will be pissed if we can't keep a north and south stand though so we need $30 million more to put in retractable seating or we risk alienating a understandably fickle fan base.
The question is.. which is it?
What do our Russian friends do?
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Realistically I think for games like that you're either cancelling the game or sucking it up. There is no mechanism I've heard of that would effectively work. To cover the span of the pitch you would need some sort of circulation system which would have to be blown at a pretty high speed to cover the field. You could perhaps enclose the bench itself a bit better to ensure it's heated, but for the most part you're just going to have to rely on thermal base layers to keep them warm, which for the most part is pretty effective these days.
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