The Jermain Defoe to TFC thread (It's Official!)

[Abou Sky]

With all due respect, I think that it's dangerous to throw ethnic/multicultural generalities around. I know some who post here would challenge your opinion. So I'm glad that you framed your post as "your opinion".That should provide some cover.

This thread could go off the rails with a post like yours. I hope that cooler heads prevail.

Sorry if you (or anyone) took offense. None was intended but re-reading I guess that without intonation/having me in front of you it could be taken that way.






In the future I will be sure not to generalize about the British (j/k)

[Greatest Ripoff]

I think it has something to do with being embarrassed against teams they are supposedly equal to... three times.

Three times? West Ham have only beaten them twice so far.

[trane]

I know that a lot of people have been harping on Italians to bring in that demographic, but I know a lot of European and South African jews who are pretty stoked about Defoe as well as a fair number of brits who are also very excited, most are not big followers of TFC but go out to a couple of games a year.

If you can convert those people into fans you are doing well.

Again, that does of course all play into it costing more for New customers than existing ones. I just wish people would stop thinking that Italians are the be all and end all.

IMO the Italian soccer fan is more likely to come to TFC games if they are winning regardless of who the players are than are the local Jewish population.

As for numbers, there may not be as many of them but anyone who has been to a Leafs game knows that they will go out and spend the bucks on tickets +

Hell, most free tickets I have gotten to Leafs games have been from friends /business colleagues who are members of the tribe.

As an Italian with many close Jewish friends, business associates and clients, as for the Italian part lets not start again, as for the Jewish part, how does one know that "they" will go out and spend the bucks on the tickets from attending leaves games? Listen I buy my Jays tickets from a Jewish business associates, they are good, expensive tickets and when I cannot use them I tend to pass them on to my brother and one particular Jewish friend, but that hardly leads me to conclude that the Jewish community will spend big bucks on the Jays, there is a leap in methodology somewhere. I am also not sure how many non-London Jewish people actually support the Spurs. I know a few South African Jews and non of them support the Spurs.

[Abou Sky]

As an Italian with many close Jewish friends, business associates and clients, as for the Italian part lets not start again, as for the Jewish part, how does one know that "they" will go out and spend the bucks on the tickets from attending leaves games? Listen I buy my Jays tickets from a Jewish business associates, they are good, expensive tickets and when I cannot use them I tend to pass them on to my brother and one particular Jewish friend, but that hardly leads me to conclude that the Jewish community will spend big bucks on the Jays, there is a leap in methodology somewhere. I am also not sure how many non-London Jewish people actually support the Spurs. I know a few South African Jews and non of them support the Spurs.

I am just going to digress here as I don't care enough to debate whether Spurs is a Jewish club or whether Jewish people spend money on sports and entertainment.

[TOBOR !]

I am just going to digress here as I don't care enough to debate whether Spurs is a Jewish club or whether Jewish people spend money on sports and entertainment.

... what ?

[Fort York Redcoat]

I am just going to digress here as I don't care enough to debate whether Spurs is a Jewish club or whether Jewish people spend money on sports and entertainment.

I think that's best.

We can all leave creed out of this. It has very little to do with Defoe coming to Toronto.

[Pigfynn]

I think that's best.

We can all leave creed out of this. It has very little to do with Defoe coming to Toronto.

Or absolutely nothing at all...

[SamK]

I am just going to digress here as I don't care enough to debate whether Spurs is a Jewish club or whether Jewish people spend money on sports and entertainment.

I don't speak for all Jews and yes although we've historically supported Tottenham I can say most I know were much more excited for Tal Ben haim last year.

[moralis]

England's Daily Mail headline: Toronto keen to finally unveil Defoe as new star striker ahead of MLS season kick-off

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo..._campaign=1490

[OgtheDim]

New mates: Toronto's top goalscorer in 2012-13 Robert Earnshaw and Ryan Nelson in his last days at QPR

One guy not there and a shot of Nelsen looking like he was playing in the Masters Over 50 World Cup.

[jazzy]

This. It's completely compounded by the fact that at least 8 games a year are effected by events which force us to park 15 minutes away, and create near-hour-long traffic jams after the game. Getting down to BMO is one of the most frustrating aspects of being a fan of this team - second only to the fact that we've always stunk.

seriously?...unfortunately I have to live in the burbs , now....and I love the location and have no trouble any night or day getting to BMO..... you have to know the routes to take on specific days....just wish the subway wasn't always out of commission on the weekends......it forces me to drive and park usually for free....yup, ...I can easily get to Downsview but leave it for the Argos.......it's an adventure down by the Lake..........as for leaving, it's the a-hole police that sometimes close down the Jameson entry to the Gardiner after games that continually perplexes me.....one day Toronto will actually be a city for the people not the bureaucrats. Btw, I would never go to Markham for TFC....the traffic is ridiculous , on the weekdays at least.

[cmonyoureds]

seriously?...unfortunately I have to live in the burbs , now....and I love the location and have no trouble any night or day getting to BMO..... you have to know the routes to take on specific days....just wish the subway wasn't always out of commission on the weekends......it forces me to drive and park usually for free....yup, ...I can easily get to Downsview but leave it for the Argos.......it's an adventure down by the Lake..........as for leaving, it's the a-hole police that sometimes close down the Jameson entry to the Gardiner after games that continually perplexes me.....one day Toronto will actually be a city for the people not the bureaucrats. Btw, I would never go to Markham for TFC....the traffic is ridiculous , on the weekdays at least.

AMEN AMEN AMEN. Good god I can't tell you the times I've been cursing that particular bit of stupidity.

But the reason I came in this thread..................

Long slow wiserhood clap to prizby, last spotted on the daily mail website commenting in the Defoe article. Spit my coffee out laughing when I saw that.

[Canary10]

Three times? West Ham have only beaten them twice so far.

I like Spurs, but that was pretty funny.

[Waggy]

Well this thread took an unexpected twist. As a Spurs supporter and a Canadian Jew, my thoughts

- Jewish people in general are huge sports fans. We have our own olympics, also do surprisingly well in pro and amateur sport overall especially considering the small % of the overall population we make up. There's a reason a HUGE percentage of owners, general managers and commissioners of sports in north america are jewish. And it's not some media conspiracy. There's something about sport that we really love. (Commissioners include obviously Don Garber, as well as David Stern (and new commish Adam Silver), Bud Selig and Gary Betman (though we don't like to talk about the last 2))
- That said as far as pro sports go those are sports other than soccer for the most part. Even in Israel, soccer is at best the 2nd most popular sport. And local soccer is largely ignored, only Champions League is really followed. And the EPL and French leagues to a smaller extent thanks to the large numbers of expats. Euroleague and even the NBA are both more popular.
- Those other sports in North America tend to be baseball and basketball as far as major pro sports go
- Most Canadian Jewish people's background is eastern europe not western, so there isn't any real soccer history. As such the most popular sports amongst jewish people here would be hockey, baseball, basketball (in that order). Soccer isn't really something many north american jews are familiar with in terms of a "my father taught me and his father taught him" etc like the other 3 sports I named. I learned about soccer on my own.
- Canadian Jews who DO like soccer largely don't pick their team based on anything related to heritage- because we have none really. I became a Spurs fan as a kid because my youth team was North York Spurs. When I found out about the Yid Army thing that solidified it for me, but had my youth team been Chelsea, would I have switched? Unlikely. I'd have just wish well for them.
- If someone was picking their favorite club because it was THE Jewish club in Europe, Ajax is clearly that club. Tottenham is a VERY distant 2nd.


So yeah. All in all Defoe coming to TFC won't really move the needle much in the Jewish community outside of the few who care about Spurs. And those people wouldn't react any differently than any other Spurs supporter. Some will buy tickets, some wont.


Edit: When Spurs fans start doing things like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qjVRIYzRCU

or making tributes like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwNI3oo-SQM

or do ventures with Maccabi Tel Aviv fans like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryk7ATc69M8
(note the comments)

then they can claim to be THE Jewish club. Otherwise we view them as basically a team that happened to be located in Forest Hill. Of a Jewish Area, sure, but it's about the area, not the religion/ethnicity.

[Ivy]

Waggy - what's the most popular sport in Israel?

[Abou Sky]

I like Spurs, but that was pretty funny.

You know what they say...

'If you can't laugh at your favorite sports team, you better not be a TFC fan'

[Waggy]

Waggy - what's the most popular sport in Israel?

Basketball by far. Maccabi Tel Aviv basketball is by miles the biggest pro sports thing in the country. Then a few other basketball clubs, then you could start getting towards local soccer clubs. Soccer is popular to play, but at the pro level isn't huge.

[Abou Sky]

Well this thread took an unexpected twist. As a Spurs supporter and a Canadian Jew, my thoughts

- Jewish people in general are huge sports fans. We have our own olympics, also do surprisingly well in pro and amateur sport overall especially considering the small % of the overall population we make up. There's a reason a HUGE percentage of owners, general managers and commissioners of sports in north america are jewish. And it's not some media conspiracy. There's something about sport that we really love. (Commissioners include obviously Don Garber, as well as David Stern (and new commish Adam Silver), Bud Selig and Gary Betman (though we don't like to talk about the last 2))
- That said as far as pro sports go those are sports other than soccer for the most part. Even in Israel, soccer is at best the 2nd most popular sport. And local soccer is largely ignored, only Champions League is really followed. And the EPL and French leagues to a smaller extent thanks to the large numbers of expats. Euroleague and even the NBA are both more popular.
- Those other sports in North America tend to be baseball and basketball as far as major pro sports go
- Most Canadian Jewish people's background is eastern europe not western, so there isn't any real soccer history. As such the most popular sports amongst jewish people here would be hockey, baseball, basketball (in that order). Soccer isn't really something many north american jews are familiar with in terms of a "my father taught me and his father taught him" etc like the other 3 sports I named. I learned about soccer on my own.
- Canadian Jews who DO like soccer largely don't pick their team based on anything related to heritage- because we have none really. I became a Spurs fan as a kid because my youth team was North York Spurs. When I found out about the Yid Army thing that solidified it for me, but had my youth team been Chelsea, would I have switched? Unlikely. I'd have just wish well for them.
- If someone was picking their favorite club because it was THE Jewish club in Europe, Ajax is clearly that club. Tottenham is a VERY distant 2nd.


So yeah. All in all Defoe coming to TFC won't really move the needle much in the Jewish community outside of the few who care about Spurs. And those people wouldn't react any differently than any other Spurs supporter. Some will buy tickets, some wont.


Edit: When Spurs fans start doing things like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qjVRIYzRCU

or making tributes like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwNI3oo-SQM

or do ventures with Maccabi Tel Aviv fans like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryk7ATc69M8
(note the comments)

then they can claim to be THE Jewish club. Otherwise we view them as basically a team that happened to be located in Forest Hill. Of a Jewish Area, sure, but it's about the area, not the religion/ethnicity.

Thanks Waggy, defo very interesting info and take.

Although... I have razzed friends on more than a few occasions about the Jewish Olympics ;-)

[prizby]

Don Garber and David Stern are no better than Selig or Bettman...all of them have major flaws (as do Goodell and Emmert)

[Cashcleaner]

Waggy, don't be so modest. You guys are renown for your pro drinking as well.

[Waggy]

Waggy, don't be so modest. You guys are renown for your pro drinking as well.

I didn't want to brag but...



And Prizby, I don't doubt that Selig and Bettman are good commissioners, but their flaws are very very obvious. How Selig turned a blind eye to steroids for a decade and a half then turned around and was like "HOW DARE YOU!" to the players after he and the owners got rich off the homerun stuff in the late 90s is disgusting to me. And the scapegoating of a few people, no matter how much of a dick or how deserving Clemons or Bonds or A-Rod are, isn't cool either. Bettman isn't that bad, but I'm not a huge fan. Garber and Stern though are 2 of the 3 or 4 best leaders in the history of sports. What they've done turning niche sports into mainstream culture is astounding. I give them massive props.

Anywho back to topic, IT'S JAN 1! When is the signing going to be finalized?!?!

[Parkdale]

the transfer window has been open for 10 hours now..... get on it!

and thanks for the interesting read waggy. I totally agree - some of my jewish pals are sports crazy!

[Eastend]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...sfer-Talk.html

Scroll to Spurs section, it says TFC to announce by Jan 10th...Daily Mail is the source however.

Dom

[OgtheDim]

Apparently, Defoe did not pass the famous "late fitness test" and is not on the bench today. Might be on the bench by Saturday. Looking at their schedule, I'd say likely to start against Palace on the 11th.

I'm assuming he's going to be transferred and then loaned back for a few weeks.

[moralis]

Maybe TFC should gone after Adebayor. Man is scoring goals like crazy.

[Abou Sky]

I didn't want to brag but...



And Prizby, I don't doubt that Selig and Bettman are good commissioners, but their flaws are very very obvious. How Selig turned a blind eye to steroids for a decade and a half then turned around and was like "HOW DARE YOU!" to the players after he and the owners got rich off the homerun stuff in the late 90s is disgusting to me. And the scapegoating of a few people, no matter how much of a dick or how deserving Clemons or Bonds or A-Rod are, isn't cool either. Bettman isn't that bad, but I'm not a huge fan. Garber and Stern though are 2 of the 3 or 4 best leaders in the history of sports. What they've done turning niche sports into mainstream culture is astounding. I give them massive props.

Anywho back to topic, IT'S JAN 1! When is the signing going to be finalized?!?!

I am with you on Garber, I know people hate him, and I don't LIKE him, but he has done more for soccer in North America than anyone else EVER.

[prizby]

Garber and Stern though are 2 of the 3 or 4 best leaders in the history of sports. What they've done turning niche sports into mainstream culture is astounding. I give them massive props.

Stern vetoing Chris Paul to LA Lakers...but did nothing about the Miami Heat stack...Garber promotes the shit out 'Don't Cross The Line', but turns a blind eye to Chivas USA and turns a blind eye to an owner who is the deputy prime minister of a country that jails and persecutes members of the LGBT community

[Redcoe15]

Garber and Stern though are 2 of the 3 or 4 best leaders in the history of sports. What they've done turning niche sports into mainstream culture is astounding. I give them massive props.

Stern's legacy has been somewhat tarnished in the last decade with the way he's handled questions about officiating in the game and on how franchises have been moved - especially in Seattle. The league may be popular amongst the handful of teams that have star players, but not with the majority of their teams that have trouble filling half to two-thirds of their buildings. The NBA is by far and away the most superficial league in all of sports.

And Don Garber may have been able to make MLS far more healthy and successful than when he took over the league. But he's got a long way to go if he ever wants to see it become mainstream. The NHL is barely considered mainstream in the U.S., yet they're well ahead of MLS in that regards down south.

[moralis]

Remember guys Defoe is not arriving until the beginning of March. Season starts March 15 at Seattle. That's sure now with Adebayor going off injured for Spurs. Hope the injury is not serious. Have a two month time period. Plus Spurs have January to sign another striker.

[ginkster88]

Word from Spurs "in the know" is that the team has received another offer from a mid-table Premiership side who wants Defoe to start. It's apparently been left up to the player.