Gallardo lasted 1 season in MLS in 08. And IIRC, that was first year DC missed the playoffs in a long time
Gallardo lasted 1 season in MLS in 08. And IIRC, that was first year DC missed the playoffs in a long time
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I really hope this is untrue. I hope Payne didn't say this, if he did he is talking too much again. Just get the player and talk afterwards.Originally Posted by moralis
Also I hope he's not planning signing someone of this magnitude. That makes no sense to me.
I guarantee you one thing, Payne wouldn't agree with anyone who thinks he can't sign a big name. He's not exactly humble.
Last edited by ensco; 04-22-2013 at 04:37 PM.
"There are some people who might have better technique than me, and some may be fitter than me, but the main thing is tactics. With most players, tactics are missing. You can divide tactics into insight, trust, and daring." - Johan Cruyff
Fair enough. But let me put this to perspective: TFC is currently rumour to spend around $1.5-2 million to acquire Laba. That's a lot of money on a player who isn't exactly proven and from Latin America (whole point getting players there is that they're cheap to get compare to Europe). It just shows how far apart TFC and DC United are in terms of buying players overseas. So comparing KP's record in terms of acquiring DP's during his time in DC isn't fair because he didn't have enough resources to sign any player in the world.
apples and oranges really. MLS teams don't generally pay big transfer fees to sign players; most arrive via free agency.
And the climate of MLS has changed. DC was one of the 'richer' MLS teams till recent influx of teams.
And KP's modus operandi generally has been try out low cost DPs first, because they can be just as good as a 'big name' DP. Why sign a 'big name', when you can get a good player for lower cost? Personally, the failure of Gallardo, and other 'big names' in MLS has soured KP from 'big names' I think.
And we dont even know how much MLSE is going to allow TFC to spend max per player. Though sounds like historical average is max of 2 mil per player
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
The salary cap hit is the same, although chemistry is extremely important given the salary difference that would ensue. I'd wait and see, it's not time to get excited by an unconfirmed tweet.
Agreed totally about Payne's ego, however I think he's someone who has * some * success to boast about.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Soccernomics proved that transfer fees do not correlate to a player's performance, but salary does, so we should leave transfer fees out of any correlation.
Not really relevant to this discussion. DC never splashed the cash like ML$E did.
New ownership means all bets are off the table about spending. Teachers' was concerned about ROI on TFC, Bogers can afford to lose cash on the TFC side if they make it up by eyeballs on the screen on the broadcast side.
I think we should probably think of Kevin Payne's record with high-end DPs as "unproven." He has never had the resources of an ML$E before. He's good at assembling low-cost teams, we have no idea how he'd do spending serious money. It could be brilliant, or he could overspend.
I've often wondered how Arsene Wenger would have done if he had had the cash of a Barcelona or a Man United. It's in some ways the same discussion.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
That one is a bit of a wash. Clearly talented, didn't adapt to the league or take it by the horns the way you'd expect a star player to.
I don't get the other ones... That one I can see why a manager would stumble on it.
my point was that Salihi cost a lot of money spent.
Not really. KP is still constrained by the salary cap. And records show he's a good MLS 1.0 GM. Not so good MLS 2.0 GM. TFC will be testament of how well he has adapted to the changes in MLS. So far, his doubters are proving to be trueNew ownership means all bets are off the table about spending. Teachers' was concerned about ROI on TFC, Bogers can afford to lose cash on the TFC side if they make it up by eyeballs on the screen on the broadcast side.
I think we should probably think of Kevin Payne's record with high-end DPs as "unproven." He has never had the resources of an ML$E before. He's good at assembling low-cost teams, we have no idea how he'd do spending serious money. It could be brilliant, or he could overspend.
I've often wondered how Arsene Wenger would have done if he had had the cash of a Barcelona or a Man United. It's in some ways the same discussion.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Could have said the same thing about Yallop or Arena pre-revival.
How can you say that he didn't succeed in MLS 2.0 when he never had the resources at DC to compete in the post-DP world?
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
because you can still build good teams without expensive DPs? your team stinks if you cannot make the playoffs, DPs or not.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Some managers are good at managing teams with DP's (Arena). Others are good without them, or with just one low-end one (Lagerwey/Kreis). The only one I can think of who has handled both types of teams and done well is Sigi.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 04-22-2013 at 05:15 PM. Reason: fix spelling
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
so... KP 'might' be good? lol
Don't get me wrong. I think KP is a solid choice. But I'm skeptic as hell, considering his record lately.
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
No problem with being skeptical, I just tend to be a little more optimistic. We're looking at the same data, just interpreting it differently. For the sake of the club, I hope I'm the one who's interpreting it correctly.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
It's entirely premature to make that statement. "So far" has only been a couple of months into his first season.
Although the optics could be better if Payne hadn't discussed potential acquisitions publicly until they were confirmed.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 04-22-2013 at 08:27 PM.
Plus lets all remember what Payne inherited coming in. Not a whole hell of alot. I'm willing to give him 4-5 years to start to show good progress not only in our main squad but soild prospects coming out of our academy.
4-5 YEARS?
Really?
This is a par league. It shouldnt take that long.
Actually I would say being a par league makes it much harder to quickly change things around. It's not like we can be like Man City and buy $100m plus of players in one off season and quickly be champions.
Payne himself has laid out his plan in interviews multiple times (this year competitive, next year playoffs, third year model MLS franchise) so 4-5 years to get a good time is definitely unreasonably long.
I know there is a quick turn around in the MLS. But really do we want to just be around compete and then be a soild team for a year or two? We need to build a soild model that can sustain keeping us in the top of the leauge for a long time. Every decision needs to be made for the long term not the short term.
Thats the beauty of it you dont have to spend 100m to be successful all you have to do is identify talent within your cap and maximize your squads total potential, the rest is coaching.
But TFC has everything in place to be competitive, the only problem they really have is a lack of experienced depth.
There is no curse!.
Just bad decision making, from top to bottom.
I see a number of people saying 4-5 years is unreasonable.
I am with Busapunk. My main thing is, I WANT US GETTING BETTER. So far, we are getting better. Not stagnant, not regressing but actually getting better.
I want to win the supporters shield more than the MLS Cup, (I want both of course) but IMO your total points after 34 games means a hell of a lot more than a few cup games.
Actually, I think it would be fun to have a bigger/longer full season 'MLS Cup' as a separate competition.
WE DID IT!
Absolutely true now, because contracts are guaranteed. We sign Ecks for four years, we get his salary for four years, unless he takes a buyout or we move him to another team. That concession, as important as I'm sure it was to avoiding labor action, was very important. A player on the books is that much harder to deal with when you sign the wrong guy and we had a LOT of turnover required.
In effect, we're not a year one team . A year one team now starts with an entry draft and, like Montreal, the ability to go out and sign veterans, thanks to the 3 DP rule. Winter and Mariner (and Mo) left us with an NASL-level team on the field and in the front office, and that's going to take a couple of seasons to fix, at least. Given the stated absence of any scouting network and much of the due diligence needed to establish relationships between clubs and leagues, I'd say three seasons before making the playoffs is not unrealistic.
To the folks questioning what BuSnPuNk wrote, read his whole comment, especially the part I've bolded. I don't think it needs to take 4-5 years to be competitive in the league, but it could take at least that long until we start getting solid prospects coming out of our academy. Last year we heard from a few folks on this board that many aspects of the Academy were in shambles, despite bold promises and big hopes. (I wonder if the Academy is getting any better in those aspects?)
My gut feeling is that TFC is starting to go down the right path, but I think they still need to do better with finding & nurturing mid-level US talent at cost-effective salaries, plus finally getting some decent South- or Central-Americans here.
Kevin Davies
According to this report, Bolton captain Kevin Davies is ready to sign for us:
http://www.sportinglife.com/football...ye-davies-deal
Apologies if already posted elsewhere.
Apart from twitter rumours, is there any hard evidence Davies is being thought of here?
Sorry, I don't trust English football internet sites for veracity.
Jeremy, you're the voice of reason. It's seems like we alternate between people who expect playoffs in year one, and people who somehow think we are regressing.
It takes time to offload the junk, or even good players who are overpaid (Ecks). Cap management is the key to success in MLS, and fixing a poorly-managed cap takes time.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Ecks is on a 4 year deal. Who were these clowns?
These were the clowns.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
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