There's no way we can trade away the 1st pick IMO. Especially not with a sure thing available. MLS drafts are notorious for being hit-and-miss, having a top-tier player available and possessing the 1st pick overall, no way can they trade this ridiculously valuable asset.
It could be one of the worst decisions in Toronto draft history, potentially worse than Raptors drafting Araujo over Iguodala and Leafs drafting Tom Kurvers.
I never said Toronto should take him with the 1st or 3rd picks, just wanted to know if he was available.Originally Posted by mcolvy
Boateng is a freshman. Neither he nor Brandon Allen will be entering the SuperDraft this year.
Very true... I think with having the 3rd spot, the 1st pick will be more about who TFC doesn't want to get picked 2nd, rather than who they want 1st.
I don't really understand why Zavaletta isn't even on Ives' radar...
the word is, Zavaleta isn't being offered a GA contract, hence making him ineligible for the draft
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Ahh, if that is the case, that makes sense...
I really think TFC should deal the #1 overall.
Word is Farrell is becoming the consensus 1st pick, and that there are a few teams that covet him.
Create a bidding war among those teams to try and drive up the price, then take the best offer.
I would aim for another pick a bit later in the 1st round, and an MLS caliber player to help bolster the MF.
Despite likely losing out on Farrell, TFC still has the #3 overall, and it is VERY probable that Zimmerman will still be available at that pick. (Rumour has Chivas taking Mexican-American MF Lopez at #2)
Many scouts believe that Zimmerman has the potential to be the better player long-term anyway, but is not as MLS-ready as Farrell for this coming season.
TFC doesn't need a starting CB for this season (Califf-O'Dea have that covered), but with Califf's age, they will need one in the not-so-distant future.
Let Henry and Zimmerman battle it out for that spot.
With the later pick, TFC can still draft a FW or AM.
There doesn't really seem to be much consensus on the top attacking players in this draft anyway.
So the player you pick later may have just as good a chance to work out as the player you would have chosen if you had used the higher pick to draft based on positional need. (Or the same player you would have picked could even fall that far)
PLUS you add an extra piece(s) - ideally a quality MLS MF - that is sorely needed for this season.
Last edited by gdg_9; 12-18-2012 at 02:40 PM.
Agreed x1000000000
Yes i also partly agree. See what we can get from the first pick. If nobody offers something good just keep it and draft. It's a win-win situation.
try to get a 1st rounder for next year, a player who can start this year, and allocation money.
Yeah, Mullins scares me solid; they talk about all his improvement but statistically his supposedly lethal finishing is 1-in-5, which isn't so hot. And that's his IMPROVED finishing.
There's a rumor Boateng might be offered a GA deal this year. He has huge upside; also Kekuta Manneh, the teenager who has been playing in the PDL and USL pro is a proven talent even though he's so young.
If I were picking based on looking at what we already have in our ranks, I would trade the top pick for a slightly later one and assets, then take Walker Zimmerman with the number three pick and either Eric Hurtado, Blake Smith or Taylor Kemp with our second. All three play wide well enough allegedly to transfer to MLS; Kemp is a left back but has speed and can beat guys on the dribble and projects well as an MLS wide player.
TFC should trade both picks for proven MLS talented players. This draft is filled with CB's which isn't greatest need for TFC right now. TFC has enough young talent already so it's better they get veteran players to come in and contribute right away.
I agree and disagree, somewhat. I don't think Toronto has the talent or depth to be able to identify and address all it's needs this offseason, and is kind of stuck in it's rebuilding. Considering it's the last year on contract for Frings and DK (plus Payne's comments signifying a wanting more younger guys in those DP roles), the team will maybe get guys who would take a a year to polish good core skills, find skilled, serviceable replacements for those DP's after their contracts are over, and take it from there. I think though, by moving one for a veteran, TFC can achieve both objectives of improving now and developing for later, so i think they will move the #1 (if no one will take the #3) for a solid pro.
But knowing the team's track record, moving a top pick will totally come back to haunt them, i fear.
I'm not entirely sold on Califf. I'm pretty sure i saw him get red-carded for pulling down/clothslining De Guz on a break - anyone who makes De Guzman look good has my concern
You should have provided that thorough scouting report to TFC before they signed him.
Payne's philosophy is to go with players that can be with you 4-5 years. While that doesn't necessarily mean going with the draft pick (although DC United tended to keep their picks), it precludes the typical Toronto thing of getting some aging veteran to "win now" (which doesn't work anyhow because you end up needing another aging player in 2 years which means your team never jells).
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Yeah I agree with this fully, it might take a lot longer to pan out, and some players might bust, but if they turn out it's the best path.
Guys like Chris Pontius and Brandon McDonald are very hard to trade for within MLS. Teams try to hold on to those type of domestics tooth and nail. That's one of the most fundamental reasons why Mo Johnston failed IMO, he was always trying to sling trades but the players you absolutely need to win are just not on the block. Houston isn't trading Brad Davis, Columbus wasn't going to trade Chad Marshall, New England wasn't going to let go of Twellman, those assets aren't movable. You'll never get fair value.
So it's best to hold onto top picks and develop them in house, providing you've got the scouting right.
http://www.soccerbyives.net/2012/12/...das-deals.html
Update on who signed on for the draft
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
Very good chance TFC trades #1 Overall now after landing 21 year-old CB Agbossoumonde today.
Toronto got SJ's 1st round, 2nd overall pick in 09 for Ronnie O'Brien
SJ got KC's first overall pick in 08 for... Nick Garcia
Basically, a good starter in MLS
“Years have gone by and I’ve finally learned to accept myself for who I am: a beggar for good football.
I go about the world, hand outstretched, and in the stadiums I plead: ‘A pretty move, for the love of God.’
And when good football happens, I give thanks for the miracle and I don’t give a damn which team or country performs it.”
-Eduardo Galeano
I'd try to trade down.
Still stay within the top 10 to grab a second GA player, but also get an extra asset (allocation $, etc.)
There's no room for Farrell now.
Keep the picks, and draft the best midfielders/forwards available, unless a MLS team makes a ridiculous offer that's too good to refuse.
It's not everyday that a team gets to draft two of the top three players in the Superdraft.
Last edited by ManUtd4ever; 12-21-2012 at 05:56 PM.
These two comments contradict eachother.
General consensus among scouts is that two of the top three players are CB.
The top two MF/FW will not both be rated in the top 3 of the draft.
It makes more sense to trade down, still get the top or second best FW/MF in the draft at #3 overall, then get another top 5 or 10 FW/MF plus an extra piece (allocation $, etc.)
Given our surplus of CB's on the current roster, I was referring to the best midfielders/forwards available at the #1 and #3 slots. In other words, it's not everyday that a club gets to draft 2 of the top 3 players available at the draft specific to that club's needs.
Twitter conversation on TFC and draft by @travismclark
@Sean Keay 3h : No need to draft a CB now, lets focus on a midfielder… preferably Mikey Lopez
@travismclark 3h : @SeanKeay deal the No. 1 pick too. or No. 3. Team wants Bekker, from what I hear.
@ThatOlCeePee 3h : @travismclark isn't Bekker going overseas?
@travismclark 3h : @ThatOlCeePee if he can get a work permit, he might sign with Crystal Palace. Unclear if that will happen.
So the answer wrt playmaking midfielder for TFC is Bekker. Quality pick from many aspects.
kyle bekker was on trial a few years ago...not sure what that might say about his talents or why we passed him up etc?
I believe Bekker was offer a contract from TFC, but he decided to go to college instead. I believe TFC tried to claim Bekker as a homegrown player so they wouldn't have to draft him, but MLS decline them.
bekker is a late first/early 2nd pick at best...not sure why anyone would pick them at #3...if TFC want him, could see tfc trading down for a pick + allocation
I believe Bekker draft stock is low because he counts as an international to US teams. Plus with his trial in England, many people think he wouldn't come to MLS now unless Bekker can't get a work permit in UK. I don't think TFC are going to use their 3rd pick on him, but I am sure there will trade first pick for a lower pick plus a player so they can draft Bekker.
There are better prospects than Bekker; I simply can't see us taking a guy rated in the 18-30 slots with either of the top two picks.
It's a hard draft to call. I've been watching a lot of vid, but every guy looks good against college defending. If I had to take a "pure talent" flyer, I would take Kekuta Manneh with the first pick, as he's a natural finisher and can do so at pace (like Mattocks, but probably not as fast), knows how to run off a defender's shoulder already and has scored profically everywhere he's gone. With a good setup man in the midfield, he'll score goals in bunches.
With the second pick I would take Erik Hurtado, as he's added a lot of strength in college and he's already very fast and technically able to beat defenders, as well as finish. He's got a really huge upside in that he can play both wide and inside. The one knock is that I haven't seen much of how he crosses the ball, but they'll play him wide at the combine where he'll face tighter marking so he could be interesting.
I know the experts are all hot on Farrell, Zimmerman and Lopez, but the two former pose roster problems for a team now four-deep at centre back and the latter is a smaller Luis Silva, a true number 10. Hurtado is probably the most complete power forward/winger in the draft and Manneh is a special talent who finds space and just doesn't miss the net, ever.
im pretty sure Kyle Bekker was never offered a contract by TFC. He trained with the team in his college offseason because he was a local kid and potential future draft pick. There's no chance TFC would get him on a homegrown because his ontario rep team (Oakville BlueStars) weren't affiliated with TFC whatsover.
If he doesn't go to Palace and pursues MLS, he might be available in the early rounds of the Supp Draft.
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