How many games will Mariner have?

[maxpower]

Because in a well-functioning organization, decisions like this are made by a GM who has experience in building a great team, rather than by a guy early on in his coaching career. I'm sure Payne is listening to Mariner and what he wants before he gets guys, he'll just apply some sober second judgement to Mariner's requests. Unlike with Mariner and Winter, Payne is not trying to undermine Mariner. He can just fire him if he wants, but it looks like he's giving him a chance to prove himself with a better constructed squad than Earl Cochrane could throw together.

It's a paradigm shift for many of us. I'm familiar enough with how DC was run, and Payne is a very straightforward guy. He will support his coach 100% until and unless he fires him. The sleezy backroom politics that we've seen for 6 years is not how he runs things.

Well fair enough. I'm not very familiar with Paynes work In D.C. apart from the results United got on the field, which is a pretty good record to say the least.I just personally think that Mariner is by far the worst coach we've ever had. Not just because the results on the field were absolute crap, but we played terrible football 99.9 percent of the time, we made some incredibly dubious trades, and he was also a fucking disaster with the Media.

I'm just saying I don't see any reason why not to fire him and have Payne bring in someone has actually managed a an MLS team and did well with them. It's not like we lack the funds to make up for the fact that this team is completely undesirable right now.

[DangerRed]

Anyone thinking that Mariner is on the verge of being fired needs to take a deep breath and relax. In my opinion, it's not happening anytime soon and we'll still go into the preseason with PM at the helm.

[Canary10]

My prediction is Mariner will be replaced, and it will have nothing to do with results on the pitch, and everything to do with his and Payne's ability to work together.

[rowjimi]

I also feel he will be replaced. Sometimes it is just a matter of the new guy wanting his own people in place. Shared philosophies and ability to work towards that goal becomes more important than an individual.

[T-boy]

I think you are totally wrong. Payne will run a very different ship. We're already seeing that with him nixing PM's choices for hoofball players.

Have I missed something? Nixing what players?

[Ultra & Proud]

Have I missed something? Nixing what players?

Those free transfer ones they offered contracts to in Scandinavia (and Cyprus?) were nixed. Before Payne arrived Mariner said these guys were proven pros who played internationally and would be a plus to the team. Then last week the Larsun Sun article had Mariner saying that they decided to go in another direction and thusly pulled those offers. What changed? Only one thing as far as I know.

[T-boy]

Those free transfer ones they offered contracts to in Scandinavia (and Cyprus?) were nixed. Before Payne arrived Mariner said these guys were proven pros who played internationally and would be a plus to the team. Then last week the Larsun Sun article had Mariner saying that they decided to go in another direction and thusly pulled those offers. What changed? Only one thing as far as I know.

I didn't see that article at all. I thought I'd read that Mariner said that the Scandanavian transfers involved small transfers fee's, so that stopped them happening.

[Ajax TFC]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/06...re-entry-draft

TALKS STALLED?It seems talks between a number of potential European targets and TFC have hit a snag.
“There’s some (back and forth) about transfer fees and stuff, which we’re not really preferred to go any further with because it makes that cap number more than we want to pay,” Mariner said. “We’re still negotiating that.”
A month after Mariner crossed the Atlantic in search of Scandinavian talent, the club will need to get past a few final hurdles if Mariner’s travels are to become fruitful.
“Some players were free that we didn’t want to take in the end,” he said when pushed about potential transfer fees. “Some players had some time left on their contracts so you can understand why clubs want us to pay for them. It’s just the way it is in football negotiations and we’ll have to try and work through it.”

I don't see where it says that all the offers had been pulled, although I can believe that he could be lying about the transfer fees. But I do find it suspicious that all the players they really wanted came with transfer fees, and those that don't have transfer fees suddenly aren't good enough. Like, do you not check that sort of stuff before putting contracts on the table?

[reggie]

Why is this clown trying to sign players jus before a new GM hired anyway,im sure PAYNE nixed the deals.

[Super]

If Payne is nixing deals made by Mariner, then WTF is the point of having Mariner as our head coach? Fire the guy. Or not. But if Payne wants to keep him around, then it's on his head.

[T-boy]

Oh, I see now. I did read the correct things originally, but people are defining things the way they see them.

I guess it IS coming up to the "silly season" where we are gonna read things like "I just saw my best mate who said the his dad saw Mariner talking to Pele and he's coming to come out of retirement and play for TFC" and things like that. This time of the year is always super entertaining

[Belfast_Boy]

My prediction is Mariner will be replaced, and it will have nothing to do with results on the pitch, and everything to do with his and Payne's ability to work together.

lets hope so, he's a joke. it was obvious before he landed here and he confirmed it with his most recent statements. the sooner he's out of T.O. the better. anyone that thought he was the right guy or still thinks so should keep quiet and learn about the game before talking.

[Ajax TFC]

If Payne is nixing deals made by Mariner, then WTF is the point of having Mariner as our head coach? Fire the guy. Or not. But if Payne wants to keep him around, then it's on his head.

because it's not the coach's job to sign players. It's the coach's job to make the players that he is given perform. The GM should not be tied to only getting players if the coach wants them. His job is to build a team that's good and then get a coach that can manage that squad. Mariner is lucky if he gets a chance to prove that he can do that.

[T-boy]

because it's not the coach's job to sign players. It's the coach's job to make the players that he is given perform. The GM should not be tied to only getting players if the coach wants them. His job is to build a team that's good and then get a coach that can manage that squad. Mariner is lucky if he gets a chance to prove that he can do that.

That's route to disaster, and also the route that led TFC to its current situation. I'd prefer the coach to get the players, select them, AND train them. I don't see any value of one guy finding players, then giving them to somebody else, who may not like them. I say give Mariner all power, or none, don't go half way. Too many cooks, and all that.

[ag futbol]

That's route to disaster, and also the route that led TFC to its current situation. I'd prefer the coach to get the players, select them, AND train them. I don't see any value of one guy finding players, then giving them to somebody else, who may not like them. I say give Mariner all power, or none, don't go half way. Too many cooks, and all that.

Both models are in place in world football, I don't think one is superior to the other. More than anything else, the wrong people / bad management led TFC to its current predicament.

[maxpower]

What do GM's really do that couldn't just be handled by the manager? we really only have that position because it's a staple in American sport. It's very rare you have that position in Europe.

[19Barrett19]

Tomas Rongen will replace mariner before he can get into his clown suit and jump on the sidelines. I am liking the silence for the first time in a long time. Reason being is i strongly feel that KP is working to get mariner out and set up the team for Rongen to take over.....

[Ajax TFC]

That's route to disaster, and also the route that led TFC to its current situation. I don't see any value of one guy finding players, then giving them to somebody else, who may not like them. I say give Mariner all power, or none, don't go half way. Too many cooks, and all that.

The reason this system failed the first time was because Mo Johnson was the one in charge of making it work, not someone who knows what they're doing like Payne. The advantage to this system is that the coach isn't a super important cog, and can easily be replaced if he doesn't do well.

I'd prefer the coach to get the players, select them, AND train them.

The problem with that is that you need someone who is good at a whole bunch of things. If you get a manager who's good at finding good players but can't coach them well (Winter IMO), you loose a bunch of games and have to bring in a new manager who will then want to bring in his own players, style, etc. If you get someone who's a great game day coach and tactician, but not a great evaluator of talent (or at least not budget talent), he'll fail because the squad isn't good enough.

The system right now is ideal. You have one person, who knows what they're doing, build the squad, and get someone who can manage a good squad to coach it. If that person fails, than you can replace them without blowing apart the entire team.

If Mariner is allowed to be the coach, he should be grateful that he's given the chance to show what he can do with the squad he's given. He's already shown over the last three transfer windows that he's a lousy evaluator of talent

[Canary10]

European managers having large coaching staffs in support. Except for game day, managers aren't doing that much actual coaching. We don't have that kind of money here for that. I think the GM/head coach model may work better in MLS.

[ryan]

If Payne is nixing deals made by Mariner, then WTF is the point of having Mariner as our head coach? Fire the guy. Or not. But if Payne wants to keep him around, then it's on his head.

Probably saving the Mariner firing for their public push of SSH sales.

[v00d00daddy]

Probably saving the Mariner firing for their public push of SSH sales.

Yeah maybe....but if they had fired him prior to the renewal deadline date I would have renewed.

They lost me as a SSH because keeping Mariner is a huge sign that they have no idea what they're doing. And if Payne keeps him he's a fool.

[ryan]

Yeah maybe....but if they had fired him prior to the renewal deadline date I would have renewed.

They lost me as a SSH because keeping Mariner is a huge sign that they have no idea what they're doing. And if Payne keeps him he's a fool.

More expensive to return now for you. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Initial B]

Yeah maybe....but if they had fired him prior to the renewal deadline date I would have renewed.

They lost me as a SSH because keeping Mariner is a huge sign that they have no idea what they're doing. And if Payne keeps him he's a fool.

Not that I expect him to, but what if Mariner coaches the team to a respectable season just out of the playoffs and the players all like him. What then?

Perhaps a better way to frame the question is: What characteristics and traits would Mariner have to exhibit for you to consider him to be worthy of keeping around?

[v00d00daddy]

More expensive to return now for you. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Nah. It's only more expensive for me to return as a SSH. I can still go to several games next year for less than the price of a Seasons seat. That is, if they give me reason to go. No longer will I feel obligated to go watch shitty football just because I have tickets.

Not that I expect him to, but what if Mariner coaches the team to a respectable season just out of the playoffs and the players all like him. What then?

Perhaps a better way to frame the question is: What characteristics and traits would Mariner have to exhibit for you to consider him to be worthy of keeping around?

It's pretty simple.

He would have to have his players playing simple, attractive, attacking football.

He would also have to value talented skill based players as much as he does the hard working, gritty players.

I'm quite confident that neither of those things are happening.

He basically has to be the opposite of himself.

Bizzaro world Mariner. LOL

[T-boy]

It's pretty simple.

He would have to have his players playing simple, attractive, attacking football.

He would also have to value talented skill based players as much as he does the hard working, gritty players.

I'm quite confident that neither of those things are happening.

He basically has to be the opposite of himself.

Bizzaro world Mariner. LOL

It's interesting that you don't mention results at all. Do you place attractive football over results?

[Initial B]

^ Remember T-Boy, I mentioned adequate results, say 42 points in the standings, where wins come more than once every two months. If he wins only 1 game in the first two months, I don't expect Mariner will still be here come June.

[v00d00daddy]

It's interesting that you don't mention results at all. Do you place attractive football over results?

It's not that I put attractive football above results...but I'm also not one to say results are the only thing that matter.

I want both.

That doesn't mean I want Barcelona.

I just can't bear to watch the brand of football that mariner employs. And I don't care if he tweaks it for next year because I can't stomach a coach that would employ the tactics and philosophy that he did last year.

The style he played, his player selection, and his justification of it all at the end of the season has made me believe that he is a terrible coach.

[Phil]

Yeah maybe....but if they had fired him prior to the renewal deadline date I would have renewed.

They lost me as a SSH because keeping Mariner is a huge sign that they have no idea what they're doing. And if Payne keeps him he's a fool.

Payne has been on the job for 2 weeks now. Agendas about sales don't factor into it, the guy is just trying to evaluate the structure (or lack thereof) and install his process.

[v00d00daddy]

Payne has been on the job for 2 weeks now. Agendas about sales don't factor into it, the guy is just trying to evaluate the structure (or lack thereof) and install his process.

Oh I get it. My point is that mariner never should have been promoted but when he was, should have been fired at the end of the season.

It Payne is like some people on these boards and thinks Mariner should get the start of the season to prove himself....which (if he fails and he will) will end up having us have to fight from behind again and basically write off another season.

That's unacceptable.

Fire him now.

[Oldtimer]

It Payne is like some people on these boards and thinks Mariner should get the start of the season to prove himself....which (if he fails and he will) will end up having us have to fight from behind again and basically write off another season.

That's unacceptable.

Fire him now.

I would very much like to see Mariner gone, but it's not just the people on this board that thinks he should stay, it's the overwhelming media opinion, and also the view of many U-Sector members. So we need to allow for the fact that there is not a consensus yet and we shouldn't give Payne a hard time for keeping Mariner for now. Eventually everyone will realize the guy in shorts doesn't know what he is doing, and he'll be out the door.