Canada Ripe for major league expansion and MLS.

[tfcmanu]

I find this interesting, Your thoughts please:

The report’s authors are also bullish on pro soccer, suggesting Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa will all be able to support Major League Soccer teams by 2035, in addition to the existing teams in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.


http://metronews.ca/sports/345987/ca...rts-expansion/

[Fort York Redcoat]

Maybe. It's not like MLS won't take the money. NBA and MLB will be a bit shy about the stability factor with good cause.


But back to the sport that matters here:

I don't think MLS should get too drunk on soccer in Canada with how Vanny and Montreal are doing - Poorer in the stands even despite being better in the standings.

I hope that teams are conservative when trying to grow the game here. Calgary, Ottawa should put some time in in the USL or NASL before the test the top tier.

[Technorgasm]

you know what else is ripe?
these fuckign PEACHES. . . DAMN they are delicious.

FC Edmonton should get to be the next one!

[Beach_Red]

It's going to be interesting to see how sports attendance goes in the next decade. It could go really well but it might also go the way of live theatre.

[ensco]

The report’s authors are also bullish on pro soccer, suggesting Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa will all be able to support Major League Soccer teams by 2035

What the author missed is that MLS will have merged with the J-League and A-League by then to form the Intercontinental League, which will be made practical by the advent of virtual reality game synthesizers (players won't need to be in the same place, to play), and hypersonic flight.

[Walms]

you know what else is ripe?
these fuckign PEACHES. . . DAMN they are delicious.

I KNOW EH! I've have like 4 baskets in the last 2 days, they grew them with crack this year

[Suds]

you know what else is ripe?
these fuckign PEACHES. . . DAMN they are delicious.

FC Edmonton should get to be the next one!

been all over the peaches ... home made peach frozen yogurt, sangria, cobblers ... the list goes on

As for the OP - Canada is ripe because we have many cities that are growing both in wealth and population. However, many of those same cities are small to American standards. I could see Calgary and Vancouver supporting another major league sports team in the near future. Ottawa and Montreal I'm not 100% sold on. Montreal can in a finicky market. It will not be easy for anyone to break in there.

[ryan]

off topic from TFC but

The study, released Thursday, also suggests that by the year 2035, another seven cities could support Canadian Football League franchises.

I would die. A 14-16 team CFL? *droolssssssssss*

[reggie]

i wonder when TORONTO will get a team,i look foward to that,i may buy season tickets..

[Technorgasm]

I KNOW EH! I've have like 4 baskets in the last 2 days, they grew them with crack this year

UNREAL!
I am 3 away from my 4th lil basket!
the juiciest, juiciest, juiciest treat!
in a pie, on ice cream, just washed and raw. . Im on like 6 a day. . I CANT STOP!!

oh ya, something about football, something something. .

DELICIOUS !!!

[Suds]

i wonder when TORONTO will get a team,i look foward to that,i may buy season tickets..

It would be interesting if any of the major leagues that MLSE has teams in would eventually give in to demand to allow another team in the Toronto/Golden Horseshoe market.

[Cashcleaner]

More and more it's starting to look like Toronto will end up getting an NFL team sometime in the next few years. Not saying this will happen, but it seems like the case to me. I think that will push the Argos out to either Moncton or Halifax. I think the CFL will be sticking with 9 teams once Ottawa is back (2014 last time I heard). The only way I see further expansion is if a formal partnership is perhaps made with the NFL and it becomes a developmental league - though that is a bit of a long-shot.

As for hockey, as much sense as it may make for Quebec City to get another NHL team, I don't see it happening anytime soon. Look at how long it took for the Jets to come back to Winnipeg. The league is incredibly reluctant when it comes to further expansion north of the border. There are plenty of cities that I believe could support a team such as Halifax or Hamilton, but the league has made it clear about where it stands on which cities are considered for expansion and which ones are not.

And while I'd love to see pro baseball return to Montreal or perhaps make it's way into Vancouver, again, there's nothing really in the cards that suggest Canadian expansion by MLB is being even remotely considered.

I think in the case of the NBA, they might consider Montreal or perhaps Vancouver again, but I can't think of any teams doing so poorly now in terms of attendance and revenue that the league would consider Canadian expansion.

Now, as for soccer, I agree that this is where things get flipped around. Don't really know about Edmonton, but Calgary looks promising to me. It's the third largest city in Canada and one of the fastest growing, and has a relatively high immigrant population. Ottawa put a bid in for MLS a few years back and I wonder if their new NASL club in town is successful someone (Melnyk) might make another attempt at wooing a top-flight franchise. Much of this is completely dependent on how big a league Garber wants. We're at 19 teams currently, and I believe the idea is to "plateau" at 20 for a while. There's plenty of other candidate cities to consider as well: Phoenix, Miami, New York 2, etc.

[Suds]

And while I'd love to see pro baseball return to Montreal or perhaps make it's way into Vancouver, again, there's nothing really in the cards that suggest Canadian expansion by MLB is being even remotely considered.

I agree that MLB is probably not looking at Vancouver but I think baseball would do well there. At the amateur level baseball is extremely popular in BC. You also have the influx of immigrants from the Pacific rim where baseball is very popular. I think baseball could thrive in BC for the long term. I'd be interested in knowing how many fans travel to Seattle for baseball. That might be a good indicator for demand.

[FIAF]

More and more it's starting to look like Toronto will end up getting an NFL team sometime in the next few years. Not saying this will happen, but it seems like the case to me. I think that will push the Argos out to either Moncton or Halifax. I think the CFL will be sticking with 9 teams once Ottawa is back (2014 last time I heard). The only way I see further expansion is if a formal partnership is perhaps made with the NFL and it becomes a developmental league - though that is a bit of a long-shot.

As for hockey, as much sense as it may make for Quebec City to get another NHL team, I don't see it happening anytime soon. Look at how long it took for the Jets to come back to Winnipeg. The league is incredibly reluctant when it comes to further expansion north of the border. There are plenty of cities that I believe could support a team such as Halifax or Hamilton, but the league has made it clear about where it stands on which cities are considered for expansion and which ones are not.

And while I'd love to see pro baseball return to Montreal or perhaps make it's way into Vancouver, again, there's nothing really in the cards that suggest Canadian expansion by MLB is being even remotely considered.

I think in the case of the NBA, they might consider Montreal or perhaps Vancouver again, but I can't think of any teams doing so poorly now in terms of attendance and revenue that the league would consider Canadian expansion.

Now, as for soccer, I agree that this is where things get flipped around. Don't really know about Edmonton, but Calgary looks promising to me. It's the third largest city in Canada and one of the fastest growing, and has a relatively high immigrant population. Ottawa put a bid in for MLS a few years back and I wonder if their new NASL club in town is successful someone (Melnyk) might make another attempt at wooing a top-flight franchise. Much of this is completely dependent on how big a league Garber wants. We're at 19 teams currently, and I believe the idea is to "plateau" at 20 for a while. There's plenty of other candidate cities to consider as well: Phoenix, Miami, New York 2, etc.

Stopped reading at A.Footbal team in Toronto. Oh god no! keep the A.Gridiron out in with the Canadian...

[Cashcleaner]

^ I'm no NFL fan myself, but the stars seem aligned for exactly that in the future.

[PopePouri]

The problem with more expansion is the dilution of talent. I'd rather they keep it to twenty teams and try growing the sport around that.

[[NBF]]

IMO, the Canadian public would shy away from sports that favour uncapped spending like in the NBA or MLB. The competition is too lopsided for any Canadian team to really compete in any of those leagues.

The CFL and NHL will definitely expand further in Canada. The CFL, IMO, can definitely build successful franchises in Ottawa, Quebec City, Halifax, and maybe even Saskatoon or Windsor. The NHL is inevitably moving to Quebec City without any doubt and you can also see teams being well supported in Hamilton and Windsor.

Fuck the NBA, it has no business in Vancouver, or any other city in Canada. The NBA might want to look for a City to move a team to in Canada but the interest will be no different than putting a NBA team in Charlotte. The more likelier places for the NBA to expand to are Seattle, Cincinnati, and possibly St.Louis.

As far as MLS, I fucking doubt that MLS teams will move to Calgary, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Quebec City or Any other major hub in Canada. The MLS will not be the first team in the world to have a 24 or 25 team top league. I think the NASL is more likely to gain a few more Canadian teams, but if Canadian Football goes in that route, you can easily see a Canadian Premier League rather than an expansion of the NASL.

A Canadian league with at least 8 to 10 teams would give two spots in the CONCACAF Champions League. Based on the fact that the top leagues in Central American Countries all receive at least 2 spots in the Champions League. So it would be more beneficial to start a Domestic League than join the NASL.

[ryan]

^ I'm no NFL fan myself, but the stars seem aligned for exactly that in the future.

Not so sure about it. Here's why..

-Much work is being done to get Buffalo to stay put.
-Rogers Centre is not acceptable as a full time NFL team home, where's a billion dollars coming from to build one?
-They can't sell out 55K the Bills, who are the most popular team in the GTA.
-People aren't willing to pay what they want to charge for the lame faux NFL experience you get in Toronto
-Canadians will be fans with or without a team in Toronto. They are interested in Global expansion, they already have our attention.
-The CFL is far more important to Canada than many realize and an NFL team in Toronto would hurt things greatly. The Government may have interests in maintaining this league and have stepped in before.
-The CFL will never be a developmental league to the NFL in status. It may be viewed as one for some, but it will never accept that role. That's insulting as all hell to anyone of the millions who watch the CFL.
-Players, like in the NBA, will have a hard time coming here. The "Canada sucks" mentality is still very prevalent amongst Americans, the high taxes are also a huge issue for many. Hard to build a club with that in place. Who wants to own a team that may not be able to fill the house, has a market like Jacksonville (where tonnes of NFL fans exist...but have unbreakable ties to other teams), and will have a hard time getting top talent? That's a risky venture.


The stars are only aligned by those who speak about it with stars in their eyes. It's a just a dream.

[Cashcleaner]

The problem with more expansion is the dilution of talent. I'd rather they keep it to twenty teams and try growing the sport around that.

This is an excellent point. I agree, I think we'd have a much better league if we stayed at 20 teams and be done with it. You could easily create a balanced single table schedule with 20 teams right now if you streamlined the playoffs a bit or perhaps even dropped the all-star match.

[ryan]

A spinoff thread...

If there were 6 more cities to support pro clubs, would you want TFC/VWFC/IMFC to fuck off from MLS and form a top tier Canadian league?

[London]

how is the CFL more important then we realize??

[Beach_Red]

Not so sure about it. Here's why..

-Much work is being done to get Buffalo to stay put.
-Rogers Centre is not acceptable as a full time NFL team home, where's a billion dollars coming from to build one?
-They can't sell out 55K the Bills, who are the most popular team in the GTA.
-People aren't willing to pay what they want to charge for the lame faux NFL experience you get in Toronto
-Canadians will be fans with or without a team in Toronto. They are interested in Global expansion, they already have our attention.
-The CFL is far more important to Canada than many realize and an NFL team in Toronto would hurt things greatly. The Government may have interests in maintaining this league and have stepped in before.
-The CFL will never be a developmental league to the NFL in status. It may be viewed as one for some, but it will never accept that role. That's insulting as all hell to anyone of the millions who watch the CFL.
-Players, like in the NBA, will have a hard time coming here. The "Canada sucks" mentality is still very prevalent amongst Americans, the high taxes are also a huge issue for many. Hard to build a club with that in place. Who wants to own a team that may not be able to fill the house, has a market like Jacksonville (where tonnes of NFL fans exist...but have unbreakable ties to other teams), and will have a hard time getting top talent? That's a risky venture.


The stars are only aligned by those who speak about it with stars in their eyes. It's a just a dream.

The biggest issue is ownership. Since the NFL doesn't allow corporate ownership, who would put up the billion dollars to put a team in Toronto? Look how long it took to sell the Leafs and then it took a merger of two media giants. The NFL wouldn't allow a Bell-Rogers co-ownership, so who is there? And then there's the issue that the NFL is a TV league and doesn't need more teams to increase TV revenue. Would TV ratings really go up for the NFL if there was a team in Toronto?

This is really the issue that all live sports are going to be facing more and more in the future as they have to compete with themselves, so to speak. We can watch the best teams in the world on TV or we can go see our local teams live. The gap is going to widen.

[ryan]

how is the CFL more important then we realize??

Most people don't realize that 30% of the country watches the Grey Cup, or that they do viewship in the millions for many games. It's part of our heritage and means a great deal to the communities where the teams are (minus Toronto).

Many Torontonians I know, have this "lolz CFL is stupid with its rouges and amateur athletes, just fold it" mentality. Yeah, lets just dismiss a 100 year old league that was just as important to building our country as hockey teams were in the early stages of the NHL.

[kodiakTFC]

A spinoff thread...

If there were 6 more cities to support pro clubs, would you want TFC/VWFC/IMFC to fuck off from MLS and form a top tier Canadian league?

I've thought about this many times. I still don't have an answer. Perhaps if we didn't lose any salary space but I a lot of players come here because we are in the American MLS, I think it could hurt TFC to be in a Canadian league.

[daner90]

how is the CFL more important then we realize??

Agreed Pat. The CFL = Useless

[London]

i like CFL but its about as relevent as WNBA, 25% of those 30% must be in the west

[Fort York Redcoat]

For a long time I hated the thought of NFL in Toronto and dreaded the demise of our oldest team in NA in the Argonauts but no longer. The leading reason I'm not going to get too panicky about comings and goings of pro sports teams in Canada is that there always seems to be another one around the corner and the landscape is always changing.

-NFL- One team in Toronto would be a popular tourist attraction that many wouldn't care about for years anyway. Even if they were NFL fans in Toronto most would only think of buying seasons for business or some other team in the league.

-MLB- Montreal? Vancouver? Fine don't care and they would just as soon put them in the national league again and a rivalry or interest outside that city would be slim + see above.

-NBA- Vancouver again? Sure. I guess there's people that would go. I know the only Raptors game I had an interest in were the Naismith cup.

-NHL- Always and forever with this. Talked to death. A poorer hockey nation with far more interest in the game but unless the cities keep turning profits all the hockey love in the nation won't keep them here

-CFL- By far the league that could change the most and because of it is the most interesting to me:

*If there was a change in perspective to look at our modest gridiron league with a different standard and celebrate its differences rather than pander for as much runoff talent as possible from the NFL but moreso the NCAA it could be a very different league with a very different future.
It would take the bravery to make it an all Canadian league and stop trying to spend more. It's never going to compete with the NFL again so make it more of a local league. When it began it was far more like the start of Football Associations in Europe with MANY teams in metropolitan areas. Local cross town rivals in Toronto and Montreal.

I know this won't be a popular idea that gets very far but I'd love to see cheaper teams in the CFL so as to get the team number back to double digits and see the return of Canadian quarterbacks.



My local- The Balmy Beach

[Carefree]

A spinoff thread...

If there were 6 more cities to support pro clubs, would you want TFC/VWFC/IMFC to fuck off from MLS and form a top tier Canadian league?

The only way a Canadian league would work is if we significantly improve the calibre of homegrown talent. Sadly, that's at least a 20-year commitment, and North-American sports business people aren't known for their long-term vision. The CFL is an anomaly in our sports landscape; if we tried to follow the same formula with a Canadian soccer league, by essentially relying on American or foreign players, we would never get any top talents here and our league would always look like little league next to the U.S.' MLS. If you start teams in Calgary, Hamilton, Halifax, etc. tomorrow with second-rate players, nobody will follow them.


Grow the sport first (by convincing kids to keep playing soccer past their 12th birthday) and then think about starting a top-tier league.

[ag futbol]

-They can't sell out 55K the Bills, who are the most popular team in the GTA.

Let's not kid ourselves here, the reason for that is obvious. the ticket pricing for the initial games was beyond horrendous. You can get a limo to buffalo with tickets & tailgate for less than it costs you to go the game with friends in Toronto. Personally, I'd count myself as an NFL fan but not a bills fan. I'd change my tune about going to games if it was Toronto's team, but a one-off bils game isn't that appealing. Would definitely get season tickets. Of the bills fans I knew, more were attending games in buffalo during the season than in toronto. The whole appeal and game day experience simply didn't exist at rogers centre.

The Canada stuff you mentioned as well ... not that it isn't a factor, but my god people love to use stuff like that as a crutch. Did the Jays and the Expos both fielded good teams back in the day and we worried about that kind of logic a lot less. If you run a proper franchise, it's not going to be an obstacle. If you run a shit show like MLSE does, it's just one more reason to take a pass.

[Oldtimer]

The only way a Canadian league would work is if we significantly improve the calibre of homegrown talent. Sadly, that's at least a 20-year commitment, and North-American sports business people aren't known for their long-term vision. The CFL is an anomaly in our sports landscape; if we tried to follow the same formula with a Canadian soccer league, by essentially relying on American or foreign players, we would never get any top talents here and our league would always look like little league next to the U.S.' MLS. If you start teams in Calgary, Hamilton, Halifax, etc. tomorrow with second-rate players, nobody will follow them.


Grow the sport first (by convincing kids to keep playing soccer past their 12th birthday) and then think about starting a top-tier league.

The CSA looked intensively at the idea of a Canadian Soccer League for D-2, and decided it was a non-starter. They are looking at regional D-4 leagues like the CSL to provide local teams.