Poor planning at it's finest if that's the case.Originally Posted by T-boy
I think ALL plans are scuppered when you lose your number one player.
Poor planning at it's finest if that's the case.I think ALL plans are scuppered when you lose your number one player.
At 4 wins, 4 draws and 2 losses, Paul Mariner is doing something right.
For this group of players, at this time, he's got them playing a style which is effective. When the players deviate from it, as they did in the first half against Colorado, they get (rightly) the hair-dryer treatment. In the second half, they played the way Mariner wanted them to play, which is much more of a possession game.
As the team has been winning more games, and getting their confidence back, they are starting to play with the ball more. It's not surprising that going W0-D0-L9 would make a defence believe that the ball is their enemy, not their friend.
Will Mariners TFC always play this way? Maybe, and maybe not, this remains to be seen. Can it win? Quite possibly. Another Ipswich Alumnus, Frank Yallop, has San Jose playing 442. They're in 1st place overall.
Another point. A lot of people are stating that the US is moving toward 443, and that is, indeed, their stated objective. It remains to be seen, though, if they can actually do it. As others have pointed out, it takes a lot of dedication and training, from a very early age to do it. Unfortunately, the NCAA, the team academies, and others don't actually get hold of the kids until they're in their teens. It has been noted that this is too late.
It would be ironic indeed if the US has as much success getting players to play 433 as Winter did...in which case Mariner and Yallop will be happily winning games.
Finally, a point about playing players "out of position". It just might be within the bounds of possibility that Mariner has seen something in the way that Eckersley and Henry play that warrants switching them. The history of the game is littered with examples of players growing up in one position and finding happiness at another. Ray Kennedy was a very good forward for the very good Arsenal team in the early '70's. Yet, when he went to play for Liverpool, Bob Paisley converted him to an attacking midfielder, where he flourished. In fact, Jimmy Greaves called him "the player of the Decade".
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You do have to have some sort of back up plan
Good post.
When Mariner was initially promoted, his harshest critics on this board seemed to unilaterally agree that he should not be given a grace period, and was expected to produce immediate results based on his tenure with the club. He has fulfilled those expectations after his first ten games at the helm, and yet he is still being scrutinized.
#Marinergetsshitdone
But that possession style is to complicated for our professionals,just because 10 years old kids in California can do it ,it doesn't mean our players can,not to mention you need someone who is going to teach them how.
It's going to take longer to build a 4-3-3 playing style for US nats than anybody (and Klinsi) expects, not unlike how we found out how difficult it is. It's going to be fits and starts. Caleb Porter uses it at Univ of Akron with great success, but when he tried to do it with US U-23s it was a disaster. Players didn't have it ingrained and were trying to play as instructed instead of naturally, which led to lapses and positional errors, again not unlike TFC.
I think some of those kids have better first touches than a handfull of our players.
Well yeah, that's what we mean by infrastructure. This team has been run in a kind of scramble mode from the very beginning and never put together the kind of FO that can actually do any planning.
Stop trying to sound so logical.
without a doubt. Sign that #10 up!
But what team can actually PLAN for losing their key, and number one player? Man Utd struggled horribly without Rooney 2 seasons ago. Look at how Chelsea struggle without John Terry in defence. Some players are just irreplaceable. And Koev's is that man for TFC right now! All the planning in the world can't make up for you losing your key player and the guy who's scored as many goals as him.
I don't think even the best clubs in the world can make up for the loss of their key player. No planning can make up for that loss.
Sure, but look, some teams are just run better than TFC, that's all there is to it. We haven't had a winning season since joining this league, we haven't a coach for more than a season and a half, we haven't... well, you know, it goes on and on.
It's not just about the 4-3-3. But even then, there are teams in MLS that are finding success with the 4-3-3. How long did it take them? Would it have taken TFC longer? The same amount of time?
For me it's less about formation (my other favourite team plays a christmas tree formation of a 4-4-2) and more about a mentality.
I don't think that things like long throws or long balls down field or even defenders kicking the ball out of play when under pressure are things that should never be done. There is a time and a place for it all.
But when a coach decides to tell his players that if under any pressure at all...kick it up field....or instructs his players to put long throw throws in to the box everytime we have a throw in the offensive half...or when the main build up of almost every attacking play is one where a long ball is played up to a striker to hold the ball....then it becomes frustrating to watch and support.
Not JUST because I don't like that style (and never have) but also because I think that style is limited in how far it can get a team. It's not going to build champions.
So what was the point? Why not stay the course with the style of play....replace Winter with a coach to continue with the mentality but try to get better results and NOT go to a coach who thinks the exact opposite way of what we were told was going to be brought in to build a long term winning team?
I refuse to accept it. I'm stuck this year but if we continue to build towards playing the current style next year and for some time to come the club will lose me as a supporter and I'm sure lots more will follow.
This club made a decision from day one of it's creation to exclude a huge section of football supporters in Toronto. They didn't cater to those of us who were willing to accept a bad team if it meant building a team that plays in a style that falls in line with what the rest of the world is doing and winning with. The rest of the world including MLS.
And when, after 4 years of garbage, they decided enough was enough and it was time to get into the 21st century, they held that thought for a year and a half.
And they've gone back to pandering to the same old football supporters in this city. Those who were brought up watching and loving football of a style that is DEAD now. That wins nothing. And that many find horrible to watch.
And why?
To ensure that people renew their Season tickets.
All those teams play a direct version of the 4-3-3 not the Ajax system.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/stor...th-aceval.html
Well, it looks like the other shoe has finally dropped. I guess Silva was the only convict they felt worth keeping, proving that fast legs are not a factor for Mariner's system.
Honestly, it boggles my mind when I see hoofball being played. There is so much ignorance its unbelievable, its like the advocators think you have to be god when infact all that is needed is the right training focus when the kids are young.without a doubt. Sign that #10 up!
totally. Give this man a medal. playing 'hoofball' is just so much more work, i don't see what the incentive is for the players to play that way. It's crazy.
The Pelt Room = sold!
Gold.
Have you thought about getting start up capital by approaching Dragon's Den?
Their lovely and talented hostess, Diane Buckner, once worked as an undercover peeler during her student days at Ryerson J-Skule. The piece she wrote appeared in Toronto Life. She's still the business.
Any length of contract is meaningless when it comes to TFC and MLSE because they don't honour them.
When has a coach with this club ever coached the actual length of the contract?!?
ML$E are douche bags, who throw their coaches under the bus every chance they get!
It's more direct than Ajax, but is more possession-oriented than Mariner's hoofball. The Ajax system is probably too complex for your NCAA journeyman graduate, but what I wanted to see with Winter gone was a simpler possession-based system. That's the real future in MLS, not some variation on Dutch football, or MLS 1.0 circa 1998 hoofball.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Honouring the contract means continuing to pay your coach after you've let him go that's why Preki and Winter are still being paid by TFC.
As for the throwing under the bus thing, ya, that happens.
^ I thought Preki was paid until the end of 2011.
Winter was "offered a different position" with TFC but declined. Not surprised if that let's them meet in the middle RE a settlement, e.g., pay him until the end of 2012 (rather than the end of 2013 as per contract).
Semantics.
Legally, you're right, but neither of these situations meet any criteria that I know of for being honourable.
What I meant was the fact that not a single coaches contract has been seen through to completion for the original agreed to length of term.
Am I wrong here?
Technically, wasn't Chris Cummins non-renewed? Although, from his press conference I think he had an idea of where he wanted them to stick their coaching job.
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