amen to this
"The groups became less about trying to get an entire stadium involved and more about a tight knit group of people who wanted to do their thing. That brought some more people in, but it also pushed some more people out. "
my entire section has lost its original fan base
Call me crazy, but I am pretty sure that policy has changed.Originally Posted by Sally Mack
In response to BBB, yes it is a travesty that the SG's didn't all move to the North Stand. Bad enough that things were done wrong from the get go, but to have had a second chance at fixing the problem but instead just continuing on with the status quo - when it has been apparent for quite some time that TFC support is dying - it's absolutely mind boggling.
I guess that's what happens when your ego is more important than bettering support of the team (my opinion).
Well done to DU by the way. You are proof that a strong will in the face of adversity can persevere.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector...?showtopic=576
http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector...opic=588&st=15
http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector...?showtopic=515
I was trying to be nice and blame PB. If you guys want to take the flack for making the mistake of chosing the corner, I'm sure PB wouldn't mind. I still blame him for not showing any flexibility and not understanding the culture.
The man didn't bother checking with DC, Chicago, and NYRB, who were already making massive banners and flags, and initially went in with the idea that all banners were banned. This is his understanding of supporters culture.
All I know is Toronto support is going downhill fast while everyone else is improving. I attribute that to PB's arrogance and ignorance. I doubt the FO in Portland or Seattle were born and raised in a terrace, but they had the smarts to listen to their supporters and make sure they had what they needed to succeed.
And 115 is still perfect. There really doesn't need to be an accessibility area there, a supporters section isn't the place for that. It would be great to have a capo stand, space for big flags, and drums.
"We keep screwing up, and you keep bringing your voices"
LOL
I have no problems with where the supporters groups chose to be positioned. In my opinion, it's a perfect location. And I think many members in both groups feel the same. I don't see what the debate way back in Year 1 over where to get tickets has to do with the current mess. Nowhere do I see Paul B determining on behalf of the supporters where to sit, although he does make it known his preference. In the end, everyone got seats where they personally selected, not where they were told.
"We will be happy to sell you signage on the east wall. Hanging banners ain't gonna happen. Even hanging banners on the south wall will be a tough sell".
ROFLCOPTERS aplenty.
no... it's far from perfect. There's a HUGE gap between the field and the first row of seats.
and beleive me... those screen caps you posted were from the middle of the discussion - USector sat where they wanted to sit, and no pushing from anyone would change that. You can see that THEY changed their minds and decided to move into 113 insteal of 115. You framing that whole argument around a few posts, when in reality the discussion went on for most of the off season leading up to the initial ticket purchase.
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taking 112 was a mistake?
that statement can only be responded to with a Designated Player caliber facepalm.
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Really, dude? The perfect location? Bit much, considering behind the net is the standard home of supporters around the MLS (forget the world, people get hurt when you bring up Europe).
Supporters shouldn't take the blame for clear mistakes from PB. The reason we're equal or worse than Columbus, FC Dallas, and Vancouver supporters (and the Quiet Squat in LA) is because they sit in the corners like us where it's hard to really do anything visually and hard to grow in numbers. It's not rocket science. Chicago had the template ready for us when we came into the league, Beirne chose to completely ignore it.
For what it's worth, here's what's going on in Houston with their new stadium opening soon:
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...tadium-opening
Instead of posting silly pictures show me pictures of groups pulling off a good tifo in a corner like 112, something of the calibre of what Seattle and Portland does. I'm talking cards, flags coordination, not just simple banners.
I think SGs should be concerned with being the loudest and having the best tifo, not how far they are from the pitch (?!?!?!?). Not sure how my distance from the pitch affects the quality of the voices. Being in the middle, however, as opposed to the corner means chants spread in both direction, not hampered by a huge gap. Distance from the pitch won't effect the TIFOs.
Last edited by RedDevils; 05-07-2012 at 03:34 PM.
I can't believe that after all these years, someone is debating that being in 112 and 113 is the reason why our displays aren't as coordinated as the ones in Seattle.
here's news for you - if we had EVER had a winning streak of note, or had a serious playoff run, the entire south stands could have been jumping.
You're caught up in a chicken-egg argument - If the team was doing well then support would be better - full stop.
some somehow the people in 112 and 113 manage to pull of things like this, despite being in the corner (because you like photos)
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Meh. One display, that's overshadowed by everything Seattle and Portland have done since they entered the league.
Keep putting your head in the ground.
And results are a huge reason for the lack of enthusiasm. My point is that if we had a good section behind the net, we could have been much better. Deny that all you want but numbers don't lie. FC Dallas, Columbus, and Toronto FC. Our peers, unorganized, no color, stuck in a corner.
I'd rather be competing with Seattle, Portland, Chicago, but that's just me, I think support makes up half of a football club. We will never be able to compete with them with the way supporters are set up. I'm saying that's mostly Paul Beirne's fault for having no vision. If you want to deny that and say the reason we'll never be in the top echelon of supporters in North America again is because you made the error and not the FO, that's on you. I can't blame the supporters here.
Fire Paul Beirne.
EDIT: Scratch the part of PB having no vision, he didn't need vision, he had Chicago right there for him to emulate. He had people in U-Sector telling him the right way to do things was to basically have a similar set up to Section 8. Ignored all of that.
So yeah, fire Paul Beirne.
"Simple economics here folks, supply and demand."
Fire Paul Beirne, short sighted, arrogant, lack of vision.
Just give all supporters groups the North Stands.
All For One !
I can confirm that the 0-8 start is due to not enough supporters behind directly behind the net. You can't expect players not to notice that the supporters are sitting 2 sections over, and the lack of acoustical symmetry is playing havoc with our back line. Paul Beirne out!
Roogsy needs to lecture you about attacking those straw men.
This thread is about the excitement level in the stadium. That's Paul Beirne's domain. He should be fired for his initial mistakes with the SGs (and Liverpool, Real Madrid, ticket prices, etc.)
The results on the pitch have a huge effect on the support, but a strong, unified section behind the net will be able to weather any kind of storm and put in a strong showing game in, game out for 90 minutes. That's an SG's role, and it's hard to do when the FO just doesn't get it.
Oh I don't doubt that Brad. Just stating I'm impressed it isn't worse than it is now. To be honest, I think MLSE is missing out on a real hot ticket if this team was a winner.
It looked like 18000 to me.
Remember that the stadium seats about 22000 with the north expansion stand. If they report about 18000, that means they are admitting that 4000 seats went empty. That's a lot of seats. It's rarely in non-Wednesday night league games that they've ever reported that low a number.
I know people *WISH* the number was lower, so it would reflect badly on MLSE. But the attendance was solid.
check out this photo the Star took:
http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer...oronto-fc-game
I know it doesn't have the West stand, but it doesn't look that bad (and notice the time, just after the second half started, when many people are still lingering in the concourses).
I saw a lot of photos on Twitter during the game and even the West stand was pretty full... The thing is, most people see the start of the game on TV, when people are always late, or near the end of the match, when people run to catch the trains or get out of the parking lot.
BMO seats 7000 in the west stand and 3000 in the south. If you think the attendance was really something less, then you're talking about 14000? 15000? That's around the equivalent of the whole East Stand not attending. I didn't see that many holes in the stands.
18000 seems about right, and would be one of the worst attendances ever for an MLS league game on a Saturday, but still strong considering how shitty this team has been and what the tickets cost.
If this was Columbus they'd be getting 6000-8000... which Columbus actually were getting in some games a few years ago...
Last edited by rocker; 05-07-2012 at 06:22 PM.
Excellent post - the bold part includes me and fellow season ticket holders who gave them up 2 seasons ago. I would still be there now even though the team sucks (hell, I'm a Sunderland fan), but the reason I'm not there is because of the way MLSE treated the fans. I know a lot of people like me. They only have themselves to blame for this.
Behind the net "in theory" makes the most sense. But have you actually looked at the accessibility area? It's massive. The designers screwed up big time - strange place for a big accessibility area.
There it is.
Just to clarify, 113 is treated like GA by the U-sector? I bought a bunch of games off a friend, and there's always been people standing in the alloted seats. I have no problem with that, as long as I find a spot to stand nearby. But was just wondering if that was how the group handled the seats in that section. I agree, if I want a prime spot, I should show up early and claim it, but on the same hand, I don't want an usher coming over to kick me out of wherever it is I end up.
Moderator
I'm just not really getting what you're argument is based on, though. RPB wanted 112 and we got it. U-Sector wanted 113 and they got it. In the end, both groups ended up going to where their members wanted. If anything, that's two accommodations Paul did for us. And he would end up doing more down the line.
You're absolutely right in that he/the club dropped the ball on friendlies, coming up with new (and often stupid) rules and regulations, and pricing. He deserves much criticism for his hand in those concerns and you're actually changing my mind by bringing them up. It's just that where the SGs ended up sitting is really a non-issue here. Of all the arguments you can put forward, this one is the weakest. There are plenty of other reasons you'd want to point out first.
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Im so confused with this thread.
^
1. Pick something that personally insults you about the club
2. Make it the key reason excitement level is down
3. Success!!!
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
Got it.
I do hate the fact that the difference from Season 1 to now is that the lineups for the washrooms are awful...it was so civilized in S1...now, its a Goddamn free-for-all.
You lineup and then every other muppet pushes in so that I almost piss my pants...
Its like Anarchy and I hate it!
THIS is the reason excitetemnt and thus attendance is down.....
End/
^I figured with the general drop in attendance figures, that would be less of an issue.
In season one, there was a deli counter with smoked meat right near my seats. They closed up shop in year two, and then reopened down the way just recently. Clearly this is why our TIFOs can't compete with Seattle (who by the way, gets a huge amount of help from their owners)
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