of course i misread the options oops
of course i misread the options oops
Sharpen your spears gentlemen. It's hunting season.
Again, Aron Winter was OK'd by Tom Anselmi AND Paul Beirne. There are very few major decisions that happen without Paul Beirne's final OK.Originally Posted by Cashcleaner
This includes the Liverpool friendly. Not sure there are many that think that's a good idea at this time.
But besides that, declining attendance, declining atmosphere, mismanaging supporters groups from day one, the man has been an abject failure. This club and its supporters flourished despite him.
Cochrane needs to go because he's part of a circus-like structure in our FO. He has done nothing to deserve a promotion to a position that is meaningless. What does he do exactly? He's part of the old regime, he's Anselmi's man amongst Mariner, Winter, and BDK.
Clean slate. Anselmi, Bierne, Cochrane, Winter & DeClerc all must be axed if we are truly going to see a future with this club. The players have no respect for the idiots running the team as it is quite obvious on and off the pitch.
After all the assholes are given their pink slips, I say let Frings be a player/manager.
Asked and answered.
This kind of interrnal politics isn't even that rare, it's just usually seen in government offices, places with no issues of profit or loss - which I guess fits MLSE. Could TFC have been managed any worse, and still it makes a profit.
I agree. Don't forget Cochrane though. His useless ass needs to go as much as anyone else.
Let Mariner coach the rest of the season and go from there.
Someone said Frings for Player Manager. I'm okay with that for this season.
We need to stop the Rot. Winter Out, BDK out. I feel as if Mariner's recruitment has been okay so far frankly, and the players we have seem to like him.
Frings won't be the manager. For one, players shouldn't have to worry about anything other than their own play. And when he retires, he'll go back to Bremen where he's already agreed to coach their youth team.
What we need to do is get rid of everyone, then hire someone who know what the hell their doing as the general manager and president, kind of like Burke's position (maybe Mariner), then let him hire who they want to coach the team according to how they want the team to play
have they announced the details of the injury yet? I haven't been able to find anything about it
I say go ahead continue to whack coaches it's only going to save me money. hey BELL and Rogers you when my season ticket money back FIRE Paul Bierne, Tommy (the fuck) Anselmi, and Earl Cochrane and I will think about it for next season
Last edited by nascarguy; 05-06-2012 at 07:05 PM.
The way I see it, Anselmi and the FO will not get rid of Winter now. They will wait until after Bell/Rogers have officially taken control. If they throw him under the bus too early and the team doesn't improve, then they become the targets in the crosshairs of the new owners. Better to have the sacrifice ready for the new owners. And if Winter manages to turn things around, then they get complimented on their foresight.
Bell/Rogers is going to be looking very closely, because it doesn't matter if bodies are in the seats, what matters is the media revenue and more people watch a winning team than a losing one.
I think the answer to our problems lies in getting a bigger drum. May I suggest this one:
that's pretty much it. Paul B has been behind some pretty boneheaded mistakes from this team (Real Madrid friendly.....) but he's not responsible for the product on the field. His job isn't to put a winner on the field, it's to make sure the lights are on and the game can go ahead. He's like the manager of a movie theater... don't blame him if the flick is terrible, but the seats are clean and the popcorn is fluffy.
Now for Tom Anselmi.... He should be on the hook for turning 3 of Toronto's teams into basement dwelling losers who are the butt of a national joke.
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an I shouldn't even need to say this... but I don't get kickbacks or comped tickets or reacharounds from MLSE, and never have.
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For the nth time, the decision to hire Winter was made by Anselmi AND Beirne. I wish the town halls were recorded.
But even if you don't buy that, the drop in atmosphere is on Beirne. Most expensive tickets in the league is on Beirne. The disgusting way they're doing the Liverpool friendly this year, on Beirne.
We need a clean house. We've been a failure from day one, so IMO everyone senior involved from day one has to go.
Winter was brought in at the suggestion of Klinsman, and we didn't have any reason to question his advice. I bet Beirne was just happy Preki was gone and we didn't have a perma-interm coach under Nick Daso anymore.
and believe me, I'm not saying the boneheaded moves aren't there, I'm just saying that it's separate from the on field results. IF we were contenders, then the mistakes wouldn't matter so much, but because the team is habitually shit, every mistake is under the magnifying glass.
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Klinsmann gave them a list of managers and PB and TA picked one. If one was a cynic one would say that the marketing spin they could put behind the BS of an Ajax-style academy factored in, when the sole focus should have been on the pitch, but of course one would have to be really, really cynical. I'll just chalk it up to two guys who know nothing about the sport making a really bad decision.
While we're on the subject, getting advice from Klinsmann is in and of itself a really really bad decision. We needed staff that knew the USSF pyramid from top to bottom, not one that knew which neighborhood in Amsterdam has really good players to scout. The president of our club and the manager of our club need to know the MLS and the NCAA like the back of their hands. That's where you find success in the MLS, not chasing after Euro dreams a la the Gullit experiment.
And just as someone who really enjoys supporters culture, we need someone in the FO that understands the basics of support. We need someone that isn't arrogant with and dismissive of the SGs. I wish the FO viewed SGs as important partners and not just tools.
I can't believe that anyone still thinks Winter should stay. This system that he's forcing on the players is not working. How many games lost is it going to take for that to sink in? Beirne, Anselmi et al is just business - the football is what matters and that is on the coaches head.
Sorry, but I call bullshit on this. I was there for the initial discussions in 2006 on Simon's board, before we were even called the RPB, and we chose 112 ourselves because we thought that the group would be small, and we could all congregate there together. Paul B. did not in any way decide where we would go.
Same thing goes for U-Sector, which numbered max 20 or so at that time in 2006. They discussed various areas, including behind the net, but decided on 113 because the net would block their displays.
I personally chose 114 for various reasons that no longer apply, thinking that I could always move my seat later on if I wanted to stand with the "small" group (how wrong I was!).
You don't really know that much about Klinsmann, do you? This post shows that in spades.While we're on the subject, getting advice from Klinsmann is in and of itself a really really bad decision. We needed staff that knew the USSF pyramid from top to bottom, not one that knew which neighborhood in Amsterdam has really good players to scout.
I'll admit that AW hasn't worked out, but we don't really know what Klinsmann recommended to Anselmi. For all we know, Winter was his #20 choice, but Anselmi picked Winter for the "total football" (cringe) marketing possibilities. It's unfair to tar Klinsmann with ML$E's incompetence. As far as US Soccer, Klinsmann has a lot of familiarity with what is going on.
Last edited by Oldtimer; 05-06-2012 at 09:37 PM.
Do you happen to know if any of the others on the list had American experience?
This!
When I get some time I'll dig up some of the old posts on U-Sector if they aren't gone. I was also there, but on the U-Sector board. Think I had like two posts, ah those were the days.
Please do tell, what kind of knowledge Klinsmann has of the USSF pyramid and the NCAA? Besides living in LA and the recent coaching gig, I have a hard time figuring out why he made such a good consultant. I'm genuinely ignorant on the subject here, so drop some knowledge, all ears. I just feel a more American-centric approach would have benefited us more.
If I put on my cynic hat again, a name like Klinsmann acting as a consultant during a turbulent renewal period helps push ticket sales in a certain direction. Thankfully I rarely wear that hat.
We know Klinsmann gave Anselmi AND Beirne a list and they picked a name. I'm not sure how what I said tars Klinsmann. If MLSE called ,e up and said take a million dollars and give us a list of guys I'd be stupid to turn it down. Goes back to the point that this goes way beyond Winter, we need to look at the two guys that hired him. We need to focus on the two guys that structured the club in such a fashion that protects them. There are 4 guys that have to get fired before Beirne, 5 guys until the damage reaches Anselmi. This structure isn't set up for success it's set up for lots of finger pointing.
Wish I knew. That would be quite the leak if that document got out, never going to happen though. We just know they got a few names and the final decision was in Beirne and Anselmi's hands. That was Klinsmann's job.
The boost in renewals was just a nice side-effect. The decision to go with Klinsmann had absolutely nothing to do with marketing and sales, nothing.
I have always found Paul B to be responsive and genuine.
That said, one question I would have is who is responsible for the ticket/revenue strategy? It is a business after all and in year 1 they were profitable.
They opted to maximize revenue, jack up prices and go after a corporate buyer. Same seat, higher price, different market.
The problem was that while prices went up, their position in the standings didn't. So they looked for quick fixes to placate the masses. A new coach, or two or three, or four... a CANADIAN DP woohoo.... And another one in Mista as in Missed-da Goal.... ok, so the team isn't any good, how about some real grass?
All of which served to bump up expenses. When expenses go up, income can't drop or else profits drop. So, the cycle can never break. They have priced themselves to a point where they are dependent on the big names to pull them out.
Our roster management becomes 6m in 3 DPs, 2 of which are injured and the other has never panned out. And since it is a cap system, the rest will be inexperienced and cheap. When our 3 DPs don't play because of injury or ineffectiveness we are left with rookies. Yesterday, a big number of minutes were given to Silva, Henry, Morgan, and Lambe. 4 starters with 1 year experience at most. Plata, with just a year under his belt was a sub.
So roster management becomes tied to club revenues and as long as ticket prices stay where they are, they can't pull the band aids off.
Last edited by Pookie; 05-06-2012 at 10:18 PM.
so what your saying is that 112 needs a bigger drumI think the answer to our problems lies in getting a bigger drum. May I suggest this one:
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I can totally understand why people are taking that position. We've had so many people in that position of manager that the constant change has become tiring to follow. I really don't blame people for taking the "wait and see" approach. I disagree with their arguments, but I completely understand why they may be taking that position.
I'm glad others are starting to acknowledge this point. The fact is, nobody outside the club has seen the recommendations Klinsmann made. The fact that we ended up picking Winter should not be misconstrued that he was the number one choice (or the last choice for that matter).
Did the USA , of all countries, just fix soccer? - C. Ronaldo, May 27th commenting on the FBI-led investigations into fraud and corruption throughout FIFA.
Personally, I'm even thrilled that the question of whether Anselmi and Bernie should be sacked it being asked.
To which my resounding answer is YES!!!
The question is not even being asked in the press. MLSE's got their hand so far in the pot with the local soccer press, TV stations, broadcast rights.
Bring in people who have a football background, who love sport (not entertainment), and who's main goal is to win championships. (Not hopefully, maybe make playoffs)
The marketing, profits and shit will take care of itself.
This is what they did Saturday and everyone, including the other team's captain gave Winter shit for doing it.
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Great love does not exist without joy and without great suffering ,that's why One club is worth only as much as its fans !