Are you implying that you know how this team will do next year?Originally Posted by Redcoe15
Content with not knowing the future of the club?
Cause if you are than post it and we can revisit it then
Are you implying that you know how this team will do next year?Content with not knowing the future of the club?
Cause if you are than post it and we can revisit it then
Except, results from the U.S. national team and MLS clubs against Euro clubs don't support your contention. The U.S. team hasn't regressed, quite the contrary. They've gone up consistently under the old ranking system. It's only in the last year that they've gone down, because they've stepped up the quality of their competition and, as I said, a dinker won't beat a guy with skill who works as hard as a dinker.
You're basically saying the same thing I am but trying to argue the relative merits of its strength in competition , a debate that seems pointless to me , as results speak for themselves.
AS for not agreeing on how pressure plays out in Europe, you're arguing with a fact. MLS teams almost exclusively play man to man; many, many European teams favour a half-field zone. It is common for MLS teams to pressure full-field for a whole game. It's exceedingly uncommon for a European team at the top level to do that unless already down a goal, because they'll get picked apart. The very nature of the difference in technique, which you've already conceded exists, demands that the style of defence differ.
Last edited by jloome; 09-01-2011 at 01:10 PM.
Why do you have to go and be a dick about things?
I never once said you can't be disappointed.
It's just tiresome to see this come up in every conversation and end up at the very same spot every time.
Nothing is mine but my opinion...which Ive made very clear on several occasions.
Just like you have.
There's no reason to hash it out over and over and over.
You talk about how you won't sit idly by and be content with mediocrity. Fine...do something about it. Do something to change what you see as mediocre...instead of trying to convince people who don't believe it is.
But if you insist on being a dick let me point out that you had been very quiet around these parts when the team had it's recent bit of semi decent form.
Now that they lost and then shit the bed in the last minutes of a game you and your take on things are back.
What a coincidence.
Lol
It's an easy way to score points off the person you're debating with and, as is the purpose here, to win the sentimental support of other people watching or reading the debate. If you can't debate the man's point but you still insist on "winning," you try to attack his character, usually as obliquely as possible so that it doesn't look like an attack but instead like you're defending yourself.
It only works on the terminally dim, but there are a lot of terminally dim people out there.
It has no real debate value, it's just subtle manipulation of the people on the sidelines, a common trait among people who define their lives by competition and self-enrichment.
^^ Pwned. x2.
United States made it to the quarter-finals in 2002. 2006 knocked out in the first round. And in 2010 the first knock-out stage. That's not progress. FIFA rankings don't mean a hell of a lot.
To your point above, you've never watched Barcelona play then. No team in the world pressures as much as them. Top MLS teams couldn't play in any of the top European leagues and be successful. They don't often beat the C teams of those clubs when they play friendlies in the summer. I would take last year's Blackpool, a team that went down to relegation, to take the MLS hands down if they were in it.
Ok, here's an idea.
What some of you are complaining about is the fact that we aren't satisfied with TFC or their direction, but we can't do anything about it. Correct? In essence, we have no say in the way our football club is run.
I've seen this before in Europe. The solution is to have a "fan" (usually a higher up nominated person from a supporters group) sit on the board of directors at the football club. This person is a non voter, but is the liaison between the club as a business and the fan base. So, we (as supporters) can get information from the board via the nominated person, and we can then offer feedback through our elected board member.
Has anybody ever suggested that this can happen at TFC? I've seen it work several times in England where the fans aren't happy. This could probably be a success here too given the chance. And then at least we (the disillusioned fan) can direct our ideas etc towards the football club officially through our fan board member.
Anybody else think that this could be away forward?
My final point, as I don't see progress in this conversation, you just want to argue.
1) Whether FIFA overall rankings are accurate, it is foolish to dismiss them completely as they are based on results. By your standard, England hasn't been a top club since 1966, and yet they're rarely outside of the top 10 rankings. So, that makes no sense.
2) Barcelona is one team. Again, pointing to the top team and saying "they do it" does not change the reality that most don't.
3) You obviously haven't watched many MLS friendlies versus C teams, as MLS clubs have an overall winning record against European clubs. Again, if you feel like continuing a pointless debate, you can jump on the fact that those were pre-season games, but you'd just be changing the topic from what I actually said.
I don't argue pointlessly, so that's my last on this exchange.
We meet on issues all the time regarding group to management issues and often times have communication beyond that. I don't think the formal structure is there in regards an actual board, the board runs all the sports franchises and we would not be privy to that.
...but we COULD and SHOULD be.
This is kind of where the trouble started back in year one - looking at a North American expansion team (and a very low priority for its owners) as if it was a 'real' team. Our big mistake was to assume that a proper infrastructure was being built behind the scenes. It wasn't.
But it is now. But it's very early stages. So, right now there's nothing we can do but wait and see how this plan plays out and hope it's successful.
No, they wont talk Leafs, Raptors and money stuff, not with fans there of any of those teams. The company is pretty private on that front.
However, if they restructured and isoloated TFC under a president and offered something like what you outlined then I could see making a strong case for involvement.
I suggest as a starting point having a communications person within RPB and really start working the media to use RPB as a source of post-game commentary, views on that state of the team, etc. Would need a process to know what the RPB as a whole are thinking and accurately represent those though. Would require some sort of structure. Supporters clubs are often quoted in UK articles.
Or it could coincide with an RPB membership discussion to reduce the friction on this board and I felt the way to do it was to simply not engage some people on this board. Dunno...maybe it was that. Not the "semi-decent" () form of the team lately, which in case you had bothered to ask, hasn't changed my mind about the team, its management or its direction.
And here I thought instead of being down on the team, by letting people celebrate lame wins over semi-professional teams was a good way to get past things. Instead, you decided to gloat over wins that were so unimpressive it barely made people feel better about this team and were more thankful that we didn't completely shit the bed. What confidence!
How I regret posting in this thread. Waiting 5 days and 6 pages to make my first post is running back to bash the team after a tie??? When could I have posted and not been accused of this shit? After a loss? Nope, same accusation. After a win? Nope, I am raining on people's parades. Fuck me. There just isn't a good time to post one's thoughts about this failure of a club. Like I said, it's simply not welcome by your kind. So please, continue fellating-yourselves about how great fans you are about all the hope you have. I won't post in this thread again.
Last edited by Roogsy; 09-01-2011 at 01:38 PM.
The way they do it in Europe is by having a supporters club where all the members are paid members, and they elect a board to represent that "club" to the football team (company). I was a member of Oxford United supporters club for years before moving to Canada, went to their official meetings, and then often an Oxford United board representative would attend the meetings, and take back any info to the company.
I'm doubting whether people would want a paid membership to a supporters club here tho. I think the different supporters groups (PRB, U sector, North End) are all too heavily involved in themselves (no offense to those people who post here!) to want to join together to form a paid membership supporters club.
One official Supporters Club would certainly get us (supporters) more power and would make MLSE stop and look up. The different supporters groups currently don't have the power and weight of a European style Supporters Club.
As you can see from the "final" post above, the trend of self-victimization in the wake of a fairly-made point, with the intent on changing the focus away from the issues being discussed, is once again evident.^^ Pwned. x2.
As was the case in the first example, the subject does not address the point at hand, which was his own method of furthering a larger debate. With no sense of support structure being presented by other debaters/onlookers, the subject no longer sees the debate as benefiting the security of his own position, and instead walks away from it.
Now, in communal, human terms, the proper thing to do was probably say "hey, yeah, that was kind of dicky, the way I said that. My bad. But I'm frustrated because I relate our support to the team's failures as a team."
However, if you don't rely on community for support, but instead get your sense of personal security from dominance (through leadership/proselytizing role or via dominance of "egalitarian" factors like commerce), your brain won't let you know that. It will tell you that admitting any fault, or weakness, is a sign of insecurity to that dominant position, and that the subject should just walk away.
And as for the issue of referring to behaviour as "the subject," I'll stop referring to people as if they were test monkeys when they stop behaving like we haven't evolved from them.
Huge diversity of opinion here too, would be really hard to bring a consistent message to TFC. It's worth thinking about though. I don't know the supporters clubs well, I'm just a die-hard fan in the 121 section....
I honestly don't know what to say to you if you really believe the top scorers in the league don't know what they're doing going forward
I'm talking about the teams as a whole. They're sooooo slooooowwwww. It's painful to watch, even the top MLS teams. They rely mostly on individual players beating defenders. Passing is terrible, no incisive balls. It looks like playing football in swamp.
jloome, you're killing me today.
Slow compared to what? if you're comparing to top Euro leagues then don't bother, it's not a valid or fair comparison. Anyway I don't agree with you as a blanket description of all teams, if anything I think MLS players often are too direct and play at too quick a pace.
It would actually require what is known as a "Supporters Trust" and usually involves an equity position in the club.
It would require organization well beyond a few members of our exec (or U-Sector or whomever) sitting down to talk with Reps from the club. You'd need to be incorporated and have an extremely well supported infrastructure to manage finances, marketing, messaging, etc.
While it isn't impossible and I say this with all due respect to the volunteers that run the RPBs and other SGs, we are no where near organized enough to step up to that level.
Of course, then you'd have to also tackle the philosophical issue of a Supporters Trust profiting from an investment in the commercial endeavours of the FO. In essence, we'd become a part of MLSE and all this talk about how their profits are king or being only about the almighty $$$ would become part of our culture as well.
Supporters efforts would be fueled by the profitability of the team. If the team becomes or remains profitable, the Trust could continue. If it doesn't, we fold or at least find our finances limiting our efforts. And since it is our money that is invested, clearly, driving a profit becomes more of a factor than it is now for the average RPB. In that way, you'd need an extremely different mindset to make it functional.
Assuming of course, that there are equity shares available.
Last edited by Pookie; 09-01-2011 at 03:32 PM.
Yeah, slow in comparison to European leagues, including the British Championship, which I think is a fair comparison. My main point really is that there is not much separating Toronto from the top teams.
No way a major corporation like MLSE is going let supporters in on the board. You need to think of this like a billion dollar corporation and not like a sports team - because that's what the structure is.
I think it would be a great idea for mlse brass to spend a week with the Firms in Rome or Milan, or in Rio, where these rabid supporters are part owners of the club. Losing in some of those places does have consequences.
By the way. I never felt anybody here was asking me to leave. Like you, I was a true supporter of this team, and backed it up with cash. In time, and not from anything that I did or caused, this support melted away. I really don't care what they do next season until i get my money's worth for this one. Like concerning yourself about the 4th year of a warranty on a leased car you return after only 3 years.
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 09-02-2011 at 08:44 AM. Reason: mention of violence
No they wouldn't. Unless one wanted to know where scum sits.I know a guy who collects rare darts. Those would come in handy during one of the many 0-3 games at BMO.
What are you talking about a TFC firm for.
FORMER FULL TIME KOOL-AID DRINKER
I think it would be a great idea for mlse brass to spend a week with the Firms in Rome or Milan, or in Rio, where these rabid supporters are part owners of the club. I believe they operate some teams like a boy scout unit sporting real guns, knives and other pleasantries. Losing in some of those places does have consequences. That would be interesting. One of you RPBs becoming a member of the TFC FIRM: just remember, some of the team buses have bullet proof windows and hired guns on board.
I know a guy who collects rare darts. Those would come in handy during one of the many 0-3 games at BMO.
By the way. I never felt anybody here was asking me to leave. Like you, I was a true supporter of this team, and backed it up with cash. In time, and not from anything that I did or caused, this support melted away. I really don't care what they do next season until i get my money's worth for this one. Like concerning yourself about the 4th year of a warranty on a leased car you return after only 3 years.
so the first half of your post was supporting violence, the second is you giving up on the team.....
and youre posting on this forum because?
Sorry. But do you guys have any knowledge of the Firms which exist in many European and South American countries, who own part of the professional clubs, and who sport uncanny violent behaviour. If you read my post you would realize I was ridiculing the earlier posts which suggested having a supporter attend an mlse board meeting. I think you guys are great, but way too serious. Anybody who accuses me of suggesting violence at BMO needs to understand this, and I will only say this once. That is utter bullshit. So next time, if there is one, I will remember to bracket the word sarcasm. I thought it was clear, but I guess it wasn't. Not to worry, I won't be bugging you guys much longer, this is your place to celebrate and voice your support of your team. Not mine. I am just a guy who bought into this whole idea of soccer in Toronto, and am still waiting for it to happen (sarcasm)
Last edited by Fort York Redcoat; 09-02-2011 at 08:50 AM.
As you might be able to tell, my life is a blend of joyous enlightenment and mind-numbing frustration.
Yin yang, I guess. Bloody dichotomous species.
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