tifo too vulgar? supporter group put on probation in San Jose.

[CretanBull]

A lot of us are, in many ways. But nobody gives a crap.

Our issues from prostate cancer, domestic abuse, child custody and support etc.... etc.... are derided and ignored, because the prevalent view out there is that men are automatically the aggressors, irresponsible, powermongering, lecherous, self serving assholes that dont quite get it and are benefitting from 2000 years of patriarchy.

I call bullshit.

We're in (greater) danger of spiralling off topic, but personally I don't take any of those issues lightly either. I've been at a friends side in a child custody case while he was unfairly demonized and his kid was awarded to a woman that anyone but the Canadian justice system would consider unfit.

Having a criminal record (for theft) 10 years prior was deemed a more serious offense than a mother who routinely ignores her son and takes every opportunity to pawn the kid off on anyone who will take him but wants to hold custody for the sake of a child benefit allowance...without it she couldn't afford to spend every weekend in a bar.

[nascarguy]

Damn Reggie you beat me to it.

8 pages now? Part of me is wondering if this is a joke or something.

If the banner didn't bother you great, if it offended you, even better.

WHO CARES?! This thread is proof that people will get offended over anything these days.

9 pages now time for more and wait for page 10 &11

[ExiledRed]

Yes, men face problems too. But I think you're individualizing the issue. An analysis of patriarchy doesn't say that men are automatically aggressive, irresponsible etc.... the analysis states that our societies are structured so that women are systemically subjugated and discriminated against. Why are women so often saddled with childcare functions? Why are community childcare options os limited? Why is violence against women perpetrated by men so much more prevalent than it is the other way around (not to say men are never victims of this)? Why do women earn on average .75 cents to every dollar a men makes? etc. etc. etc....

It's not about portraying men as inherently evil .. that'd be very weak analysis. We're talking about structural issues here.

Its not about portraying men as inherently evil, its about making women inherently victims, which by implication makes men the victimisers.

I dont buy it, at the lower end of the payscale where the majority of us live, the payscale imbalance is imperceptible, and in workplaces such as factories you might find women have a ton more advantages than men do.

In retail or service, do you think male resumes are never discriminated against? Do you think women dont get more flexibility with hours and overtime based on their motherhood?

Why is it when you say domestic violence, the automatic assumption is going to be that of male aggression. That right there is the demonisation of men, and I promise you that most men who are abused by their spouses don't report it, dont have any support network in place anyway, and wouldnt even get support from their friends, cause theyd laugh at them.

My position is, that this demonisation of men has lead to issues facing us to be exacerbated and unaddressed, and if nobody gives a fuck about my problems, why should i give a fuck about theirs?

I used to worship the earth goddess and yearn for a return to the matriarchy back in my early twenties by the way. If we were having this conversation back then, I would be like

"yeah, and men like changed religion and shit so that god was a man, and the line should be traced through the mother cause you know who the mother is and the father could be anyone, and women make more sensible leaders than men who just like to bomb shit....yeah man.....pasas that bong."

[Blowing Bubbles]

I can see how the tifo is offensive and really it should've been taken down during the game by security and that would've been the end of it right there.

But handing out a 5 game probation to the supporters group is way over the top - especially early in the season. You would hop the front office would be able to have a better dialogue and negotiate a different resolution - maybe just an open dialogue over what is/isn't appropriate and if they cross the line again it'll be a massive ban. Or a 1 game timeout/cooling off period now.

Ostracizing the group up front is not good for in game atmosphere if these guys are going to sit on their hands for the next 5 home games ..... then again maybe the ownership doesn't give a fuck about supporters and would rather those guys just weren't there at all ...... who knows what their target demo is and if they're trying to cater to soccer fans or ppl who go to Giants and Sharks games.

Surprised by the sanctimony of some posters ITT saying if that was done at bmo they'd quit RPB .... hope you guys aren't involved in any dirty chants then.

[DichioTFC]

Damn Reggie you beat me to it.

8 pages now? Part of me is wondering if this is a joke or something.

If the banner didn't bother you great, if it offended you, even better.

WHO CARES?! This thread is proof that people will get offended over anything these days.

9 pages now time for more and wait for page 10 &11

I, for one, enjoy trolling in this nonsense thread. I feel like I'm Roogsy in a DeRo thread

Btw, if we made a sexual banner featuring DeRo, would the RPB website explode?

[DichioTFC]

this thread needs to die a slow, painful death. Next you'll be telling me that this is offensive...

[Cashcleaner]

What's on the banner is 2 girls on their knees beside a standing male.

Your interpretation is not fact. End of story.

Needed repeating.

Too be honest, I don't think this debate will ever go away. People decide for themselves what they are offended by, and those sorts of matters are not generally decided by logic but rather by emotion. We're at an impasse.

[CretanBull]

I, for one, enjoy trolling in this nonsense thread. I feel like I'm Roogsy in a DeRo thread

this thread needs to die a slow, painful death. Next you'll be telling me that this is offensive...

Some people here are offended by the banner, and for the most part there's been an honest level of debate about it. Do you think trolling a thread and mocking people's point of view on such a sensitive issue helps in anyway? Do you have such little respect for your fellow RPB members that you feel the need to belittle their views because you disagree with them?

Even if you're not offended by the banner, is it that hard to imagine why some people would take exception to a banner depicting an actor who has a history of violence against women standing over a woman who he's holding in place by her hair?

Again, even if you're not bothered by the banner can we at least agree that a topic of this nature deserves more respect than a flippant comparison to an internet meme reference to Sir Mix Alot lyrics?

"Trolling" doesn't help at all - worse, its adding fuel to the fire to the lack of mutual respect that's ripping this group apart.

[CretanBull]

Too be honest, I don't think this debate will ever go away. People decide for themselves what they are offended by, and those sorts of matters are not generally decided by logic but rather by emotion. We're at an impasse.

You're probably right. To put it in another context though, if you were offended by something that you thought was anti-semtic even if I didn't think that it was anti-semtic I'd have enough respect to not mock you for being offended and try to have a mature conversation about it. If things started to get ugly or personal, I'd back off because I'm not the offended party and I'd respect someone else's feelings on such a sensitive issue. The Red Patch Boys is supposed to be a brotherhood, and mutual respect has to be the foundation of such a diverse group as ours.

Has it occured to anyone here that someone who was raped or sexually assulted has read this thread and reacted in horror with the causual and joking attitude that some people have taken?

The debate has been had, just about every opinion on the topic has been expressed. Going forward can those who aren't offended show some sympathy to those that are and treat the subject with some reverence?

[flamehawk]

You're probably right. To put it in another context though, if you were offended by something that you thought was anti-semtic even if I didn't think that it was anti-semtic I'd have enough respect to not mock you for being offended and try to have a mature conversation about it. If things started to get ugly or personal, I'd back off because I'm not the offended party and I'd respect someone else's feelings on such a sensitive issue. The Red Patch Boys is supposed to be a brotherhood, and mutual respect has to be the foundation of such a diverse group as ours.

Has it occured to anyone here that someone who was raped or sexually assulted has read this thread and reacted in horror with the causual and joking attitude that some people have taken?

The debate has been had, just about every opinion on the topic has been expressed. Going forward can those who aren't offended show some sympathy to those that are and treat the subject with some reverence?

Here here

This isn't exactly 4chan or some random website. We actually see each other at the pub and at games. I'd like to think this is a community, and it'd be nice for folks to have a little more respect. Emotions or not, (I'd like to think it's both for me but if you think I am completely irrational, fine.) that's the opinion being stated by some folks here and as Cretan said, I do know people that would have an even bigger reaction to some of the comments made here ... let's not act like children trying to take the mickey out of eachother.

[flamehawk]

Its not about portraying men as inherently evil, its about making women inherently victims, which by implication makes men the victimisers.

I dont buy it, at the lower end of the payscale where the majority of us live, the payscale imbalance is imperceptible, and in workplaces such as factories you might find women have a ton more advantages than men do.

In retail or service, do you think male resumes are never discriminated against? Do you think women dont get more flexibility with hours and overtime based on their motherhood?

Why is it when you say domestic violence, the automatic assumption is going to be that of male aggression. That right there is the demonisation of men, and I promise you that most men who are abused by their spouses don't report it, dont have any support network in place anyway, and wouldnt even get support from their friends, cause theyd laugh at them.

My position is, that this demonisation of men has lead to issues facing us to be exacerbated and unaddressed, and if nobody gives a fuck about my problems, why should i give a fuck about theirs?

I used to worship the earth goddess and yearn for a return to the matriarchy back in my early twenties by the way. If we were having this conversation back then, I would be like

"yeah, and men like changed religion and shit so that god was a man, and the line should be traced through the mother cause you know who the mother is and the father could be anyone, and women make more sensible leaders than men who just like to bomb shit....yeah man.....pasas that bong."

Well, we can go back and forth forever with this. From my own understanding of things, the issue is that women are disproportionately at one end - indeed, they almost completely dominated the sort of employment that is completely unrecognized - homemaking.

And I personally won't describe women as 'victims', its a little infantalizing .. 'oh poor babies' .. They're one group getting a really raw end of he deal, as another group incurs benefits. They have resisted against these problems, and I am willing to be an ally.

When you bring up factories, I don't know about the composition for the more technical ones - ie. car manufacturing. It would seem like those are more male dominated .. they also seem to pay relatively more than in other manufacturing jobs (though unfortunately, not going to last with the unions being broken). If you look at garment, and other similar industries, it's women dominated. With the example of retail,sure it's women-dominated .. but not surprisingly, it's also the lowest paid jobs around.

I avoid automatically assuming that men do not space spousal abuse. I agrew ith you completely. And for folsk not to be supportive of these men is ridicules.

In terms of broader movements and services, I still firmly believe that as men, we have a lot more access than others. It's certainly true that some major problems faced by men, whether its mental health (the field I work in) or violence, is ofen unaddressed ... coincidently the result of masculinity (or the values associated with it - where we are supposed to be big and tough and not have emotions) another component of patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts everyone - albeit differently and disproportionately.

and then there is its intersections with race......

[Wull]

You're probably right. To put it in another context though, if you were offended by something that you thought was anti-semtic even if I didn't think that it was anti-semtic I'd have enough respect to not mock you for being offended and try to have a mature conversation about it. If things started to get ugly or personal, I'd back off because I'm not the offended party and I'd respect someone else's feelings on such a sensitive issue. The Red Patch Boys is supposed to be a brotherhood, and mutual respect has to be the foundation of such a diverse group as ours.

Has it occured to anyone here that someone who was raped or sexually assulted has read this thread and reacted in horror with the causual and joking attitude that some people have taken?

The debate has been had, just about every opinion on the topic has been expressed. Going forward can those who aren't offended show some sympathy to those that are and treat the subject with some reverence?

I'd like to think most people are treating rape, domestic abuse etc. with reverence and just don't link it up to the banner the way some people clearly have

[Raging Reggie]

After further review of this picture I see what the artist was trying to depict. Hes saying that Seattle and LA fans are just males with longish surfer hair who like to wear silly read thongs. Hes also just pushing them down to smell his barefeet. That is all. This thread can be closed. Beckham is here today.

[Waggy]

Whether or not the banner was poorly executed (it was), whether or not it's sexist or demeaning (I don't think it is, but that's my personal opinion). Isn't the point of this thread supposed to be how hard handed the San Jose FO came down on a SG for a banner after they received 1 complaint? I for one think we SHOULD be supporting other clubs supporters groups when fighting a front office acting like tyrants. The thing with opinion is it's subjective- the fact that the group was sanctioned after 1 twitter complaint, literally 140 characters or less, is ridiculous. If it happened to us, either in BMO or an opposing stadium, we'd be apoplectic. We're talking about something that happened at a football ground, not a church or a school. Sometimes there are vulgar things said, sometimes vulgar actions are made. Sometimes there are fights in the stands. Sometimes people get too drunk. Sometimes people break laws by smoking (cigarettes or weed). Sometimes people attempt to commit assault (throwing things at players). Sometimes a bag of piss can land and explode all over. etc etc etc. Sometimes people try to be funny and fail. Get over it. The sanction only brought MORE attention to the banner anyways

[tfcleeds]

^Totally agreed that this thread has gone completely off the rails in terms of what the focus of discussion should have been.

I'm not saying the banner wasn't demeaning to women or in bad taste - it was. But come on. If we are talking about issues facing women globally today, there are far more pressing concerns than a crudely drawn banner at a soccer stadium in California. Terrace culture has always been lewd, I'm not debating the rightness or wrongness of it, that's just the way it is.

[ryan]

And that's meant to convey what? A fun time of mutual respect shared between a San Jose and LA fan or a depiction of San Jose dominance over LA?

It's open ended, it is what it is on the banner. You and I and anyone else can look at it and make an opinion on what we "THINK" is going on, but at the end of the day there only is what's on the banner.

What's on the tifo is not what you are basing your arguments on, you're basing them on an opinion.

[ExiledRed]

The banner has gone from the wasted effort of an untalented artist, to high art.

Its shock value, and multiple interpretations based on the viewer's perceptions. It makes social commentary and alludes to the 'rape culture' and the death of matriarchy. It postulates a world where male dominance is the norm and women give fellatio unwillingly to their evil masters, who wear dirty grey y-fronts as a symbol of their dominance.

High art I tell you. It should go in a gallery.

[Whoop]

[Alixir]

people get offended by water nowadays.

[2mil4dero+santo]

people get offended by water nowadays.

I've tried to stay out of this but really these ignorant comments are getting a little too much. You have your opinion thats fine, but don't tell me what I should and shouldn't get offended by.
I haven't been telling anyone they should be offended by this, and I don't appreciate people implying that I should not be offended, because I am.
My marriage of ten years fell apart because my wife was raped and left me to bring up three kids by myself. Things like this do have an impact on some people, please show a little sensitivity in your posts.
If this was a poster of the same man doing something racist I'm sure there would be quite a different reaction on here.

[Alixir]

I've tried to stay out of this but really these ignorant comments are getting a little too much. You have your opinion thats fine, but don't tell me what I should and shouldn't get offended by.
I haven't been telling anyone they should be offended by this, and I don't appreciate people implying that I should not be offended, because I am.
My marriage of ten years fell apart because my wife was raped and left me to bring up three kids by myself. Things like this do have an impact on some people, please show a little sensitivity in your posts.
If this was a poster of the same man doing something racist I'm sure there would be quite a different reaction on here.

sorry...are you offended by water?

[2mil4dero+santo]

sorry...are you offended by water?

only if it's put in my beer...

[denime]

Ok Boys It's Time To Put This Thread To Sleep!


Have A Nice Game Day !!