Toronto FC boss Winter decides to change culture with locker room no-go

[ManUtd4ever]

The connection is that, in every case, his prime motive appears to be to tighten control over the club using authoritarian methods. It's always popular with a subset (maybe a significant subset) of the fans. I get that. This has been FC Hollywood of the North.

But Winter seems unhealthily obsessed by this. What do you think the players think?

We have to have talented people, with other options, actively choose to come here, for us to succeed.

I'll say it again:

We have to have talented people, with other options, actively choose to come here, for us to succeed.

For every Sir Alex, there's 25 guys who try this unsuccessfully.

I agree with your sentiments, but isn't it premature to label Winter as a hard ass authoritarian?

What has Winter done that would discourage players from coming here?

Cann walked off the team (because of issues with previous management no less) so Winter made him apologize, and rightfully so. Some managers wouldn't have even taken a player back if they left the club while under contract.

Winter handled the DeRo controversy as well as can be expected considering that he inherited the situation.

DeRo and Cann were allegedly lied to and mistreated by the former regime, not the current regime.

Now Winter has tried to deflect attention from the players and shield them from unnecessary media scrutiny (because as you say, it's Hollywood North up here), he's overruled by the commissioner, and will be forced to adhere to a questionable MLS guideline.

So far, I have actually been quite impressed with the caliber of players that Winter and Mariner have brought in, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon because of this story or the fact that two players signed contracts they weren't happy with and were outspoken about their discontent.

[bdiddy]

I'm confused... are people ripping on Winter now for causing discontent with the team?

Because Cann decided he wanted a new contract and Dero decided he wanted more money?

[babone]

You never answered my questions and NO that is not what I implied.

I see what your saying in regard to winter sending out the leter with out consulting the league, and your right.

But Garber being the commish imo should set the example in regards to addressing the team before the public.

[ensco]

I'm confused... are people ripping on Winter now for causing discontent with the team?

No. Just think Winter's going to get a bad rep if he's not careful. You can only lay down the law so often in life.

[Auzzy]

^ But is there a chance that in this situation, many players might actually be happy that he attempted to "lay down the law" with the media?

[Whoop]

No. Just think Winter's going to get a bad rep if he's not careful. You can only lay down the law so often in life.

I agree with that sentiment. That's what caused the players to tune out Preki.

But Winter has to indicate to the players that he is the new boss. So he has to picks his battles.

It all depends on how he responds to this. Like Auzzy stated, maybe this fight was one for the players?

[ensco]

^ But is there a chance that in this situation, many players might actually be happy that he attempted to "lay down the law" with the media?

Yes, I know you are right. Some guys will like it because they don't like interviews.

But the league has this rule for a reason - without this rule, every player would become even more of an automaton, because then they will have been told what to say by the coach. Which I believe is the main reason Winter wants to do this.

(Others will say otherwise, he wants to preserve the sanctity of the room like they do in Europe. I don't agree. Lots of things are different here, get over it.)

I am making a subtle point. In the long run, organizations that treat men like children don't succeed, mostly.

[Whoop]

Yes, I know you are right. Some guys will like it because they don't like interviews.

But the league has this rule for a reason - without this rule, every player would become even more of an automaton, because then they will have been told what to say by the coach. Which I believe is the main reason Winter wants to do this.

(Others will say otherwise, he wants to preserve the sanctity of the room like they do in Europe. I don't agree. Lots of things are different here, get over it.)

I am making a subtle point. In the long run, organizations that treat men like children don't succeed, mostly.

95% of athletes already are regardless of media access or not.

[Auzzy]

I agree that different players would view this initiative differently. Some like the media more than others. Some might even be impressed by the North American dressing room media storm, if they're used to it from big North-American sports.

But automaton? Who has been told to say what by Winter, as per his letter to the media? Winter wanted the interviews held in the gym & elsewhere, rather than in the locker room. That's what this is about. (And as Whoopee mentioned, most player interviews are pretty vapid anyway.)

Probably Winter will also give the guys tips on what to say & what not, in the context of acting like a team. I'm sure previous coaches/managers have tried the same -- on this team & many others. But it has still been MUCH more loosely controlled than in most other corporate environments -- and even compared with many other sports teams. (I realize players are also celebrities to some degree -- so the situation isn't totally comparable to other corporate environments, where such shit storms are largely unheard of.)

Media & issues management has been a total disaster with TFC for a long time -- some of it because there's been lots of turmoil in the organization -- but some of it because there's lots of interest & media competition, where even minor issues can be made into a huge deal to sell stories. And also because it fits into a general narrative of "Toronto sports suck, MLSE sucks" (which, even if true, is not always the issue).

Whereas some really interesting things about the actual football, never get asked or reported...

Do you have info about Winter being generally authoritarian (towards the players), more than an average coach would be? That's not the impression I got from a variety of stories, interviews with players & management, etc. On the media side, he's also been dealing with some pretty sticky situations since he got here.

[ManUtd4ever]

I agree that different players would view this initiative differently. Some like the media more than others. Some might even be impressed by the North American dressing room media storm, if they're used to it from big North-American sports.

But automaton? Who has been told to say what by Winter, as per his letter to the media? Winter wanted the interviews held in the gym & elsewhere, rather than in the locker room. That's what this is about. (And as Whoopee mentioned, most player interviews are pretty vapid anyway.)

Probably Winter will also give the guys tips on what to say & what not, in the context of acting like a team. I'm sure previous coaches/managers have tried the same -- on this team & many others. But it has still been MUCH more loosely controlled than in most other corporate environments -- and even compared with many other sports teams. (I realize players are also celebrities to some degree -- so the situation isn't totally comparable to other corporate environments, where such shit storms are largely unheard of.)

Media & issues management has been a total disaster with TFC for a long time -- some of it because there's been lots of turmoil in the organization -- but some of it because there's lots of interest & media competition, where even minor issues can be made into a huge deal to sell stories. And also because it fits into a general narrative of "Toronto sports suck, MLSE sucks" (which, even if true, is not always the issue).

Whereas some really interesting things about the actual football, never get asked or reported...

Do you have info about Winter being generally authoritarian (towards the players), more than an average coach would be? That's not the impression I got from a variety of stories, interviews with players & management, etc. On the media side, he's also been dealing with some pretty sticky situations since he got here.

Well said.

[Whoop]

I wonder if TFC offers a PR seminar for new players to NA on how to deal with NA media?

[Banjax]

Don't understand why there is a rule stating they need access to the locker room, what exactly is the difference if they do it in the gym or even the parking lot for that matter pretty sure the media does not care where they do an interview as long as they get the answers they want. If a team wants some privacy why not give them that small piece of safe land for them to walk around and not be asked what they think of the 4-3-3 or how the team made some sort of mistake this week. I mean at this point why not just let them shower off with a hose on the pitch and then do interviews out there.

[ensco]

Do you have info about Winter being generally authoritarian (towards the players), more than an average coach would be? That's not the impression I got from a variety of stories, interviews with players & management, etc. On the media side, he's also been dealing with some pretty sticky situations since he got here.

I agree he inherited a mess. I "know" nothing. I'm only seeing the same interviews etc that you're seeing. The Cann one in particular, that got my spidey sense going. It's not the way I would have liked it handled. Of course Winter did better with Dero. Easy to be a Monday morning quarterback I guess.

I'm seeing it a little differently, is all. He needs control, of course, but he's supposed to be a teacher, and good teachers take control by using demonstrating their total mastery of the subject, in my experience.

Here's hoping my worries amount to nothing.

Also, re the lame coverage of the team, omg, don't get me started. I've bleated on about it elsewhere!

[Auzzy]

^ Cheers! Here's hoping the worries subside, and we start reading some interesting stories about tactics (and maybe even some about wins & other good news) at some point....

I really wonder how Winter will react to the league -- and I really hope that Winter (or, where appropriate, Mariner) are the only ones talking about it. Not you-know-who or the others...

Interesting that there's no news from the practice today. Maybe that will be the new normal? I somehow doubt that the media will be getting any more news than they have previously, at least for a few weeks. I also looked around the MLS team websites a bit. I wonder if there's any team that has as many updates and interviews, directly from the team, and throughout the week? Other websites might have a story or two per day, written about one player or some other subject. But much less video, far fewer interviews, etc.

[babone]

Looking at this situation as a whole, is it fair to say that if Winter fails it would have a negative effect on future coaches/technical staff coming to MLS from europe.

[backbeat]

I agree he inherited a mess. I "know" nothing. I'm only seeing the same interviews etc that you're seeing. The Cann one in particular, that got my spidey sense going. It's not the way I would have liked it handled. Of course Winter did better with Dero. Easy to be a Monday morning quarterback I guess.

I'm seeing it a little differently, is all. He needs control, of course, but he's supposed to be a teacher, and good teachers take control by using demonstrating their total mastery of the subject, in my experience.

Here's hoping my worries amount to nothing.

Also, re the lame coverage of the team, omg, don't get me started. I've bleated on about it elsewhere!

interesting how things are perceived - I saw Winter as protecting/supporting Cann in that interview where he apologized. Winter interjected to say something like let's talk about the future that is in the past. to me it was like Cann was going to get bombarded by the questions and Winter stood beside him and they got it over with. i thought it was handled brilliantly and supportively.

i'm really impressed with the way Winter has dealt with touchy situations - DeRo included - i've found Winter sincere, clear and direct...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yeah i gotta agree with backbeat on that

[ensco]

Looking at this situation as a whole, is it fair to say that if Winter fails it would have a negative effect on future coaches/technical staff coming to MLS from europe.

I believe this already has a name: the "Ruud Gullit effect"

[ensco]

interesting how things are perceived - I saw Winter as protecting/supporting Cann in that interview where he apologized. Winter interjected to say something like let's talk about the future that is in the past. to me it was like Cann was going to get bombarded by the questions and Winter stood beside him and they got it over with. i thought it was handled brilliantly and supportively.

i'm really impressed with the way Winter has dealt with touchy situations - DeRo included - i've found Winter sincere, clear and direct...

But it's not just that Winter was there - why was Cann doing that publicly at all?

[ochos]

Read through the first 4 pages or so and read a lot of intelligent, unbiased dialogue from all sides of the issue. Hope the next 10 or so didn't decay into negative bashing and arguing - it's refreshing. I think most of us like Winter's idea, if not at least temporarily, to help this team focus and not be subjected to the last 4 years of rubbish.

Close thread.. wish we could not blow this up and have it all blow over quickly

[backbeat]

^^ why? because he had to.

Adrian left the team and came back - he was bound to be grilled by the media - there is no doubt. i see it that Winter helped him by taking the heat off and standing shoulder to shoulder with him and even stepped in to say let's talk about the future - he helped Cann through it.

[babone]

^^ why? because he had to.

Adrian left the team and came back - he was bound to be grilled by the media - there is no doubt. i see it that Winter helped him by taking the heat off and standing shoulder to shoulder with him and even stepped in to say let's talk about the future - he helped Cann through it.

Got to agree here, I would think Cann is not the most polished with media I think he would have been fried.

[ensco]

My question isn't why he spoke to the media, it's why he was forced to make a public apology. Winter standing there only made it worse.

[babone]

Where would Garber stand in support with other clubs? The reason I ask is it possible that MLSE/Winter/Marnier released the letter knowing the league would object.

I guess what I'm asking is it possible that not everyone agree's with the DON and this issue and is there more behind the scenes?

[johnmolinaro]

Interesting that there's no news from the practice today. Maybe that will be the new normal?.

Actually, the team doesn't practice on Wednesdays - traditionally it's always been the players' day off.

JM

[CretanBull]

I wonder if TFC offers a PR seminar for new players to NA on how to deal with NA media?

I'd guess no...and suggest that TFC get PR training themselves!

[CretanBull]

How can you support their positions when they both had signed contracts?

In my mind there is no excuse for Cann walking out on the team that is under new management, especially considering the fact that Winter was still willing to grant him most of what was allegedly promised to him by MoJo, even though he wasn't contractually obligated to offer Cann anything at all.

Seriously. I agree that it was an underhanded maneuver by MoJo to make false promises to DeRo and Cann but these are grown men for crying out loud, and a signed contract is a signed contract, end of story.

If Cann and DeRo had issues with their contracts they have two people to blame, their agents, and themselves.

Screwed over ? Johnston may have lied to them and promised them the world, but that was never in writing. They were very naive to believe anything that shitbag said.
Don't forget they were both happy to sign their contracts when they did and they were both a short time into them when they started to complain.
Their performances were as expected, no more, but more importantly the team's results didn't improve, and to kick-off when they did was ill timed.

I'm not going to rehash everything all over again. They signed the contracts that they had to sign under the circumstances - there were promises made to each of them that weren't kept. I think the club should be held accountable to their word and honour their promises. If you don't feel the same way, I understand. If you wanna be a by the book, law and order type where promises that are made don't count for shit unless they're in writing and support a club that lies to players to get them to commit to playing here then stop wondering why we can't attact better players - because they see things MUCH differently than you do.

[DichioTFC]

My congratulations to John Molinaro. Your pointless, groundless complaint got the result you wanted; possibly to the detriment to the club (as per Winter).

Looking forward to your articles, I'm sure the post-game sound bites that you worked so hard to get will be quality time in and time out and not just a one-off thing (i.e. DeRo cheque signing, like you keep mentioning over and over). I'm sure your presence in the locker room as a nuisance is well worth the quality articles these post-game soundbites will provide.

[CretanBull]

My congratulations to John Molinaro. Your pointless, groundless complaint got the result you wanted; possibly to the detriment to the club (as per Winter).

Looking forward to your articles, I'm sure the post-game sound bites that you worked so hard to get will be quality time in and time out and not just a one-off thing (i.e. DeRo cheque signing, like you keep mentioning over and over). I'm sure your presence in the locker room as a nuisance is well worth the quality articles these post-game soundbites will provide.

A little unfair don't you think? Reporters here were just asking for the league's rules to be applied fairly to every team - including Toronto. If TFC (or any other club) doesn't like the rule then they should work to change it.

[backbeat]

My question isn't why he spoke to the media, it's why he was forced to make a public apology. Winter standing there only made it worse.

no Winter standing beside him, supporting him, made it easier for him.

adrian was absolutely going to be asked repeatedly by the media when he showed his face to explain himself.

to come out together, apologize and get it over with was the best and fastest way to deal with it. and Winter stood with him and told the media to get on with it and look forward, it was done with...and when you watch it, that is exactly what happened. the questions stopped and they moved on....

it was really well handled...