Today’s News, Wednesday , Nov.19

[denime]

Stalteri set to pass on armband
By RYAN JOHNSTON

In eight short years Paul Stalteri has experienced the highs and lows of Canadian soccer. On Wednesday the roller-coaster ride may come to an inauspicious end.
"I haven't put too much thought into that yet. There is still one more game to be played," Stalteri said from Kingston, Jamaica, on Tuesday. "Once that is sorted out I will think about my future with the national team." ...

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Carver and Johnston scout players
Reds coach and GM watch games in the U.S.

Toronto FC Coach John Carver and Director of Soccer Mo Johnston have returned from a scouting trip in North Carolina. They spent a week watching college games in the United States. "We went to North Carolina to watch the Atlantic Coast Conference," said Carver. "It was a very important trip because it's coming up to the draft time. I've been watching the college football all season on a Friday night but it's better being there in person and being able to see it live and take a close look at players that we might consider for next season." ...

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Three silly questions
Ben Knight,

What if:
1) ...

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SUNSHINE

[DOMIN8R]

Mornin' Denime.

[TK88]

Baseball star Pujols joins MLS expansion effort

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/stor...pansion-effort

[Fort York Redcoat]

Baseball star Pujols joins MLS expansion effort

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/stor...pansion-effort

Seems pretty desperate to keep St Louis in the running. Not the most attractive destination, maybe?

[ensco]

Vancouver (Nash) and St Louis (Pujols) may be using celebrities because their primary backers are so much less substantial than Miami and Atlanta's....

[Fort York Redcoat]

Vancouver (Nash) and St Louis (Pujols) may be using celebrities because their primary backers are so much less substantial than Miami and Atlanta's....

Drew Carey- Seattle. Yep stars sell but the difference here is the timing of the partnership. The St Louis ship was sinking I think so they added this to warrant what the MLS wants- geographic distribution of their teams.

[Redcoe15]

Seems pretty desperate to keep St Louis in the running. Not the most attractive destination, maybe?

Would you keep Hamilton out of the National Hockey League? Or Winnipeg or Quebec City?

St. Louis is called the cradle of soccer in America. It has one of the deepest roots for the game in that country. Amateur, high school, college, the game is well supported at the grassroots level. The men's national side has always had representation from St. Louis. The 1950 U.S. team that shocked England 1-0 in Brazil had nearly half of the team from St.Louis. The movie The Game Of Their Lives, which looks at that upset, takes place mostly in St. Louis.

St Louis SHOULD be in MLS. They deserve it far more than Miami, Atlanta, or Ottawa.

[The Kingpin]

Would you keep Hamilton out of the National Hockey League? Or Winnipeg or Quebec City?

St. Louis is called the cradle of soccer in America. It has one of the deepest roots for the game in that country. Amateur, high school, college, the game is well supported at the grassroots level. The men's national side has always had representation from St. Louis. The 1950 U.S. team that shocked England 1-0 in Brazil had nearly half of the team from St.Louis. The movie The Game Of Their Lives, which looks at that upset, takes place mostly in St. Louis.

St Louis SHOULD be in MLS. They deserve it far more than Miami, Atlanta, or Ottawa.

^ Yep. Job Done.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Would you keep Hamilton out of the National Hockey League? Or Winnipeg or Quebec City?

St. Louis is called the cradle of soccer in America. It has one of the deepest roots for the game in that country. Amateur, high school, college, the game is well supported at the grassroots level. The men's national side has always had representation from St. Louis. The 1950 U.S. team that shocked England 1-0 in Brazil had nearly half of the team from St.Louis. The movie The Game Of Their Lives, which looks at that upset, takes place mostly in St. Louis.

St Louis SHOULD be in MLS. They deserve it far more than Miami, Atlanta, or Ottawa.

Grassroots does not equal pro support. They deserve it, sure, but there are reasons they're not already in the league. My comments were from a standpoint of personal preference. I see your points. I'm rooting for the Canadian cities before hoping to travel to St Louis.

[The Pope]

I like the ideas that VPjr put forward in Bens artiticle

Put it together Dino!

[denime]

Red Bulls riding their luck

Steven Sandor

If, at the start of the MLS playoffs, someone would have asked me to put money on the New York Red Bulls winning the MLS Cup, I would have laughed. And laughed.
Now that the Red Bulls are a game away from the championship, I’m not sure whether soccer fans should be laughing or crying.
Dominic Kinnear, coach of the two-time defending champion Houston Dynamo — the team New York shocked in the first round of the playoffs — isn't going to bet against the Red Bulls upsetting Columbus in Sunday’s MLS Cup.
“Columbus was the most consistent team, along with us, during the regular season,” Kinnear said. “But what we know is that New York has been the luckiest team in the MLS for the last three weeks. Columbus should win, but you get the sneaky suspicion that New York may still have something. It’s a cup game. And in a cup game, the best team doesn’t always win.”


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[denime]

I like the ideas that VPjr put forward in Bens artiticle

Put it together Dino!

Yeah,very good idea.
Her is the link to his comment:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...comment2782254

[Beach_Red]

Grassroots does not equal pro support.

Maybe not in the short term, but it does over time. That's what the NHL is learning with its southern experiment.

Still, I'd rather Montreal Vancouver or even Ottawa.

[Hitcho]

I'd like to see more Canadian cities in MLS for obvious reasons, but my worry is that if the Canada/US player divide isn't lifted then the talent pool for the Canadian MLS clubs will becomes so stretched that adding more clubs will effectively become a millstone round the neck of TFC. We'd be forced to have inadequate players on the roster, and pay way over the odds in terms of trades and salaries for any decent Canuck player that came along. That would be crippling. It's not like we're fully stocked with top level Canadian players as it is, and there's even talk of using our DP slot just to get in a decent Canadian player who's not currently a DP and is safely past the 30 barrier.

Worrying.

[tfc]

Lets have our own division!! MTL, VAN, TOR, I'm sure some other cities would get involved eventually ...

[Fort York Redcoat]

Maybe not in the short term, but it does over time. That's what the NHL is learning with its southern experiment.

Still, I'd rather Montreal Vancouver or even Ottawa.

Sorry, What are the NHL learning? Atlanta and the Florida teams are under contant threat of moving/lack of interest. But I'm sure you can quote Bettman on how I'm wrong.

[JonO]

Sorry, What are the NHL learning? Atlanta and the Florida teams are under contant threat of moving/lack of interest. But I'm sure you can quote Bettman on how I'm wrong.

They're learning that you need to place team in an area that has grassroots support for the sport, and not just in a city that has "pro support"

Edit: Besides, I'm not sure Ottawa and Montreal are the best examples of cities that offer "pro support". I think football in Montreal may be a success, but other than the Habs, the city is not exactly a beacon of "pro support" (cough, Expos, cough cough)

[Beach_Red]

Sorry, What are the NHL learning? Atlanta and the Florida teams are under contant threat of moving/lack of interest. But I'm sure you can quote Bettman on how I'm wrong.

No, I think you're right. There's no grassroots of hockey in the southern states and the NHL is learning that the pro teams are having a hard time and may not survive. One thing I think the MLS is doing right that the NHL did wrong is to start small and build along with the base, from the bottom up.

The NHL tried a top down approach of dropping big money pro teams into places where there was no hockey at all. They bought some media interest and got some coverage (never as good as they claim). So now the novelty is wearing off and not many new fans are coming on board for hockey in places where kids don't play.

Soccer is growing all over the US and will continue to grow and the high school and college games will become a bigger deal and so will the pro game. It'll just take some time.

You can look at where basketball and hockey were in the late 60's - both were regional sports with few pro teams. Basketball had teams in some very small markets and hockey expanded from 6 to 12 teams in mostly non-hockey markets. Basketball grew first at the high school and college level (the same way football did) and now is way past hockey. Hockey can't really copy that because it's too expensive in most states to run high school hockey programs, but soccer is perfect.

[Beach_Red]

They're learning that you need to place team in an area that has grassroots support for the sport, and not just in a city that has "pro support"

Edit: Besides, I'm not sure Ottawa and Montreal are the best examples of cities that offer "pro support". I think football in Montreal may be a success, but other than the Habs, the city is not exactly a beacon of "pro support" (cough, Expos, cough cough)

My Expos - an arrow in the heart.

But a perfect example of the need for good local ownership. Baseball may be tough on small market teams, but the Expos had plenty of fan support - what they didn't have was a good downtown stadium. That's what the Als have shown, they moved from the Olympic stadium to downtown and were a huge hit. If they Expos were downtown it would make all the difference in Montreal.

Saputo Stadium is going to be a problem in years to come.

[Fort York Redcoat]

They're learning that you need to place team in an area that has grassroots support for the sport, and not just in a city that has "pro support"

Edit: Besides, I'm not sure Ottawa and Montreal are the best examples of cities that offer "pro support". I think football in Montreal may be a success, but other than the Habs, the city is not exactly a beacon of "pro support" (cough, Expos, cough cough)

Whoah, not my words. Personal preference was the Canadian cities. Didn't say they were bastions in the realm of supporters.

[Fort York Redcoat]

No, I think you're right. There's no grassroots of hockey in the southern states and the NHL is learning that the pro teams are having a hard time and may not survive. One thing I think the MLS is doing right that the NHL did wrong is to start small and build along with the base, from the bottom up.

The NHL tried a top down approach of dropping big money pro teams into places where there was no hockey at all. They bought some media interest and got some coverage (never as good as they claim). So now the novelty is wearing off and not many new fans are coming on board for hockey in places where kids don't play.

Soccer is growing all over the US and will continue to grow and the high school and college games will become a bigger deal and so will the pro game. It'll just take some time.

You can look at where basketball and hockey were in the late 60's - both were regional sports with few pro teams. Basketball had teams in some very small markets and hockey expanded from 6 to 12 teams in mostly non-hockey markets. Basketball grew first at the high school and college level (the same way football did) and now is way past hockey. Hockey can't really copy that because it's too expensive in most states to run high school hockey programs, but soccer is perfect.

Agreed. Now for the $$$ issue at grassroots here with soccer v hockey...

[Beach_Red]

Agreed. Now for the $$$ issue at grassroots here with soccer v hockey...

We may be starting to see some real changes happen quickly here. For one thing, there are thousands of arenas that were built in the 50's and 60's that badly need to be renovated and updated but this time around it may be too expensive for most smaller towns to put up all the money.

There's also the beginning of an urban/rural split with soccer becoming far more popular in urban areas (the popularity of basketball has also changed things).

We also have an odd situation in Canada where hockey in high school isn't as important as city teams. Basketball, though, is mostly through school. That difference may become more significant.

I don't know about soccer, I guess as a summer sport it's through the city - my kids play in a city league.

[Redcoe15]

I understand where you're coming from, Fort York Redcoat. And I too want to see more Canadian teams in the league (well, Montreal and Vancouver anyways). But what I also want to see is for MLS to go into places where the sport is most appreciated in North America (Canada and U.S.). And St. Louis and Portland definetly qualify for that.

What I fear is that Garber and the league will Bettmanize themselves and put teams in places only because they want to chase national (American) ad and tv revenues and because they have flashy names behind them. They failed in Miami before and now they may be poised to make the same mistake again just because FC Barcelona wants to expand their brand name in the American marketplace and Miami seems the "logical" place to do it.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I understand where you're coming from, Fort York Redcoat. And I too want to see more Canadian teams in the league (well, Montreal and Vancouver anyways). But what I also want to see is for MLS to go into places where the sport is most appreciated in North America (Canada and U.S.). And St. Louis and Portland definetly qualify for that.

What I fear is that Garber and the league will Bettmanize themselves and put teams in places only because they want to chase national (American) ad and tv revenues and because they have flashy names behind them. They failed in Miami before and now they may be poised to make the same mistake again just because FC Barcelona wants to expand their brand name in the American marketplace and Miami seems the "logical" place to do it.

Right back at you, Red. But we both know that this league saying it'll cap itself at whatever number of teams is the same as every other league here. Those that deserve it WILL have their day. I feel for them that they may have to get behind the glamour boys and their hoopla.

[Oldtimer]

My Expos - an arrow in the heart.

But a perfect example of the need for good local ownership. Baseball may be tough on small market teams, but the Expos had plenty of fan support - what they didn't have was a good downtown stadium. That's what the Als have shown, they moved from the Olympic stadium to downtown and were a huge hit. If they Expos were downtown it would make all the difference in Montreal.

Saputo Stadium is going to be a problem in years to come.

The Expos moved more because the ownership had already decided that the team will move. It's exactly parallel with the San Jose situation in MLS.

I watched the Expos around 1973-1974 as a kid and even attended some games. I even was a member of the "Young Expos" club ("Rusty" Staub was president).

Montreal is a great sports city, and would do well in MLS.

[Fort York Redcoat]

The Expos moved more because the ownership had already decided that the team will move. It's exactly parallel with the San Jose situation in MLS.

I watched the Expos around 1973-1974 as a kid and even attended some games. I even was a member of the "Young Expos" club ("Rusty" Staub was president).

Montreal is a great sports city, and would do well in MLS.

I see more Spos gear now than when they were operating.

[Roogsy]

Would you keep Hamilton out of the National Hockey League? Or Winnipeg or Quebec City?

St. Louis is called the cradle of soccer in America. It has one of the deepest roots for the game in that country. Amateur, high school, college, the game is well supported at the grassroots level. The men's national side has always had representation from St. Louis. The 1950 U.S. team that shocked England 1-0 in Brazil had nearly half of the team from St.Louis. The movie The Game Of Their Lives, which looks at that upset, takes place mostly in St. Louis.

St Louis SHOULD be in MLS. They deserve it far more than Miami, Atlanta, or Ottawa.

The only problem I have with St Louis is that it's an economic dead zone. Very little marketing power, not much in the way of corporate backing and lots of poverty.

[Chapman]

That is so weird that the NCAA allows players who were substituted out of a game to come back in, that would make some weird strategies its like field lacrosse then.