Marcus Haber/Jakob Lensky
Not sure if this has been brought up but Marcus Haber is currently unattached/on trial with Simeon Jackson's club Gillingham. This kid has always been an exciting prospect so why didn't/shouldn't we take a shot at signing him, he's young and talented which is more than you can say for some of the current TFC players. Plus he's Canadian, nuff said methinks.
PS.(OT) Does anyone know what the deal is with Jakob Lensky? He retired from professional football at the ripe old age of 19 last I heard.
Haber wants to play in Europe.
Originally Posted by T_Mizz
Not sure if this has been brought up but Marcus Haber is currently unattached/on trial with Simeon Jackson's club Gillingham. This kid has always been an exciting prospect so why didn't/shouldn't we take a shot at signing him, he's young and talented which is more than you can say for some of the current TFC players. Plus he's Canadian
PS.(OT) Does anyone know what the deal is with Jakob Lensky? He retired from professional football at the ripe old age of 19 last I heard.
Feyenoord and Jacob Lensky are to go their separate ways. The Canadian midfielder’s contract will be cancelled on 1 September. The move comes after a request from the player himself, for personal reasons.
‘Jacob Lensky has indicated that he wishes to stop playing professional football completely, for personal reasons,’ says Peter Bosz, Feyenoord’s technical manager. ‘We have understood that he also wishes to return to his home country. Feyenoord is saddened by the player’s departure, given that his footballing qualities were unquestionable.’
Jacob Lensky signed for Feyenoord from Scottish club Celtic in December 2006, after a trial, for an amount in compensation for the player’s youth development. He made many appearances for the Feyenoord reserve team, debuting in the seniors in an away match at FC Twente under coach Erwin Koeman in the 2006-07 season.
he's not the kid who went to be a priest is he? i'm probably way off, but i heard something like that somewhere i think...
I think that was some new england player
Maybe we could convince Lensky to come back and play for TFC. Perhaps a hometown crowd will get him back into the swing of things.
what would haber cost? and would he play for $33K or less? prob not.
Exactly that's what I'm thinking. Surely playing in the MLS is better than being on the outside of the football world looking in? (Speaking of both kids here)
PS. Both Lensky and Haber are from Vancouver so we're not "exactly" a "hometown team"
these guys have agents. If they wanted to come to MLS the agents would be calling around.
Considering Will Johnson is playing for something like 33k I'm sure Marcus Haber would play for that little.
Haber would not be a senior roster player. He's not good enough. Nana is head and shoulders ahead of Haber in terms of development, IMO. Nana makes only $18K on a DEV deal. This is why Haber is hoping to land with a halfway decent Euro team because he would also be essentially a development player in Europe but would be making more money. I know a kid playing U18 in Europe on a pro contract who is making over $3000 US per month (to play YOUTH soccer in a professional organization). Plus accomodations are taken care of. The money in MLS is a laughable joke and that's why so many Canadian players I've chatted to won't consider coming to MLS at this time. TFC lowballs Canadians and these guys can do better playing in lower leagues in Europe.
If Haber came to TFC, he would be lucky to make even $18K because he's not MLS ready. He would not start. I fear that the longer that Haber dicks around Europe trying to find a gig, the more his progress will slow. He needs to find somewhere to play and kick start his career. If he's from BC, maybe he should try to latch on with Whitecaps, even if its for small money. Right now, its getting to the point where his season is being flushed into the toilet.
Last edited by VPjr; 11-18-2008 at 02:03 PM.
Exactly he's flushing his season down the toilet so why would he play for the whitecaps when i'm sure TFC could and would offer more money, to play better soccer
How do I answer this type of post.
Haber would be lucky to make $18K with TFC. LUCKY!!!! More likely, he'd be offered the lowest pay possible as a DEV player (Like $14K) because he's not proved himself at any level to be worth more than that to a club like TFC. TFC needs players who can perform NOW. They are not really interested in developing players who can't help them immediately.
Next, BC is his home....that means no living expenses presumably....so if Whitecaps were to offer him something (not saying they will), the deal would automatically be a better one for him because he would not be spending any money on room and board, one would suspect.
Furthermore, need I remind you that the Whitecaps are USL1 champs while TFC are MLS Chumps for a 2nd year in a row. Plus, Whitecaps took 4 of 6 points from TFC in the V's Cup this past year. Whitecaps are also a team who have made a serious commitment to player development...TFC can't say the same....they TALK about player development but they aren't actually committed to it, IMO.
Lastly, if he can find a gig in Europe now, he can get paid now. the Euro season is in progress. On the other hand, USL or MLS season does not start for several months so no dough until the season starts. If he scores that gig in Europe, the money will far outstrip the money available to a player of his ability in North America.
To summarize...Haber will be staying in Europe until the last possible minute and then, if there is no hope of scoring a contract over there, he'll possibly come home to try to land with an MLS or USL club.
PS...there are a bunch of CSL players showcasing in Singapore right now with the hope of securing a pro contract over there that would pay 2-3 times what an MLS Dev. contract would earn them. Maybe Haber would be better off trailing in Asia, where his size would generate some interest.
While I agree with most of your post, can you expand on why you think TFC isn't committed to player development? MLS rules dictate the pay scale for development roster players. What can TFC improve on in year three that should have been established in year 1 or 2?
I don't THINK TFC is uncommitted to player development....I'm convinced of it.
Player Development costs money...lots of money. The payoff is not guaranteed and even if they develop a great player and sell him, they don't even get all the money from the sale or control how its used, based on MLS rules. Under those circumstances, why would MLSE/TFC do anything more than the bare minimum when it comes to "player development"? To me, there is a lot of window dressing going on...the people at TFC talk about development but I really don't believe (and lots of local soccer professionals who I've spoken to also don't believe) that development is really a priority for them, especially at this time.
I'm not necessarily being critical of TFC management for not being fully committed. As MLS rules are presently constituted, MLS clubs have their hands tied, keeping them from doing what is best for the club in terms of player development. They can't/won't pay good young players enough to incent them to become part of the TFC program (Trust me...there are quite a few players who would love to play in Toronto but money and a couple of other factors keep them in Europe). Also, the total roster is so small that every player on the roster realistically needs to be able to contribute, which is one of TFC's major issues because there are several players on the 28 man roster who are not MLS ready (i.e. Gala, Melo, Elkinson, Gaudet).
To be competitive, TFC needs to start stocking its side with players that are able to contribute immediately, which keeps them from bringing in more players who might need a year or two of seasoning. Haber is one of those players.
How could they improve in Year 3....establish a farm club in CSL so that U21 players like Melo, Gala, Gaudet, etc... could play serious, meaningful games every week. That would mean cutting them from TFC (for now) and signing them to the CSL club, which would be a stand alone operation (conveniently owned by MLSE). the Academy players could compete in the CSL Reserve Division or in the OSL, with only the best Academy players playing up on the CSL team. If TFC ever needed a player in a pinch, they could bring one of their CSL guys up on an emergency call up.
As witnessed this year, MLS teams are not obligated to use all of their Developmental roster spots (TFC had something like 3-4 spots that were unused). Under my scenario, the new Dev roster would have to be stocked with slightly older players (i.e. Rosenlund and other college grads). To meet Canadian ratio requirements, they would actually have to bring in Canadians who are capable of contributing, not teenagers who ride the pine and who don't get enough meaningful game competition to really start to develop.
I could go on and on about this topic because its a personal pet peeve but I'll spare you all from my anti-TFC rants
Last edited by VPjr; 11-19-2008 at 12:24 AM.
Sounds like its more an issue with the MLS as opposed to TFC as its the MLS that decides on the pay scales etc, alot of what you say i agree wtih however, TFC needs to do whats best with TFC and by stripping itself of the young players itll have half the size roster with noone else to fill them... Once again, its the MLS that decides the majority of these things (ill try and revisit and discuss in further detail but i need to have a shower adn go to work, HA)
the problem with this idea is if a guy is "cut" from TFC he can be picked up by other teams in MLS... you have to waive him. If the player is not picked up, he's also free to move anywhere he wants. I seriously doubt these players would look fondly upon playing in the CSL. They'd probably try to get on another MLS team or move to Europe, like it seems almost every young Canadian wants to do.
So you're proposal sounds nice in theory but doesn't work at all in reality, either on the administrative side, or the player side.
The CSL is nice for the young kids to come up and play through. But to expect players who have had the taste of professional leagues, and who have much more potential than that to choose the CSL is unlikely. Compelling players to stay at the CSL level is nice if you have the upper hand and they have no options.
Last edited by rocker; 11-19-2008 at 08:34 AM.
another issue (just before i disappear a second time) is the fact we can sign only 1 from our academy then the rest are up for picking. Even that 1 that we sign gets signed to the senior roster, i think we can sign a second to a GA contract. Ridiculous.
The MLS needs to change this shit asap
The fact that we got an academy up and running with experiences professionals should suggest that TFC is committed to the development of youth soccer
this is a major point with me. Why set up a massive youth system if you can only sign 1 or 2? It's overkill.
Juan Carlos Ass-Oreo from the New Jersey Red Bull was complaining about this earlier this season. He has some decent kids but didn't want to risk blowing the allowable quota in case the kids didn't pan out.
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_b...09/post-7.html
Last edited by rocker; 11-19-2008 at 08:41 AM.
Dont forget that they were obligated by MLS rules to establish the academy. There were rumours that they were trying to delay the launch of the academy yet another year (to 2009) because they were have a hell of a time getting it going after that coach from Chicago Magic left the staff rather abruptly after the draft in January. I will give them some credit for getting it done because I fully expected that another year would come and go without the academy getting started.
However, in the process of establishing the academy, they made fools of themselves with the tryout camp and burned bridges everywhere they went. Then, after picking a group of players to kick start the academy, they reversed 180 degrees at the last second and cut virtually all of those players and ultimately just grabbed the OSA All Star players to fill the academy, thereby essentially not adding to the elite player development landscape in Ontario, just re-shuffling the deck. Those OSA All Star players were already getting good coaching at their home clubs (most of those players came from big clubs who have staff coaches with equal or more elite level experience and credentials to the three men on the TFC-A staff) and they were getting extra training at the OSA under the tutelage of a couple of coaches I have alot of respect for (particularly Patrick Tobo, who everyone in the GTA acknowledges is an excellent coach). It would have been far better, in my opinion, for TFC-A to do what Whitecaps are doing and that is bring in the best players they can find, regardless of geography, put them in residence or get them billets, and then the number of 4-5 days a week "elite" training opportunities would have doubled in Ontario, rather than simply be reshuffled (don't forget that this saved the OSA a ton of dough as well...TFC was running their all star program for them).
They did hire pretty good people to run it. i like Dasovic and Bent. I don't know Neely and have heard mixed things about him. Nonetheless, they're all professionals, although I would have liked to see them hire at least 1 coach with pro coaching experience, which none of those three coaches have (there were a few coaches in the GTA that they could have approached that have that experience but they were never even interviewed). Another thing to consider...Imagine the backlash if they cheaped out and hired people with zero name recognition. Who is going to argue with Bent and Dasovic? However, none of us really know if these players are getting better under Nick and Jason than they were under coaches like Tobo or their home club coaches. The one thing I will say that TFC did well is decide to jump into the CSL at the last minute to get the academy players the highest possible level of competition and they definitely matured as the season went on. If for no other reason, these boys benefitted by jumping from the OSA and their home clubs to the TFC-A and for that I do give TFC a ton of credit (even if they realistically did not have alot of other options to find a competitive arena for their academy squads).
We definitely agree on this issue....its one of the MAJOR beefs I have with MLS. This is not TFC's fault and i would not blame them if they were to de-emphasize the Academy until such time that those rules changed.
To me, it seems like MLS is trying to protect NCAA's place as an important brick in the development pyramid. If this doesn't change with the next round of collective bargaining, I will be pissed off and be further convinced that this is a mickey mouse league.
HA i knew the OSA bit was going to come up and you do have a point with the cutting of the initial set of players, my biggest thing in favor of the academy is the fact that it was started immediately whereas teams like NE are just getting around to doing it. Gotta remember this is the first time that MLSE has run a soccer club as a result they are prone to make mistakes regardless of how stupid and amateur they are, i really sincerely dont believe that they do not have good intentions and do not want to develop players for Canada. If that was the case why come together with Impact and Whitecaps in such a formal way/announcement. Sure it could have been run differently but hindsight is 20/20. If they still havent developed any players in a decades time, you sir, will be absolutely correct. We do have to remember we only know half the story, if that.
agreed with the pro coach experience however its prob difficult to pull coaches with pro experience to a team like TFC
you make some decent points but I think I can poke holes in all of them.
#1 I would be willing bet substantial sums of money that any young Canadian player waived by TFC would go unclaimed by the rest of the league as long as there are no other Canadian teams to compete with. Why would an American team fill an international spot with a Canadian U20 player who is not good enough to crack the roster of the 2nd worst team in MLS. Furthermore, if there was serious USL interest in these players, they would pull a Tyler Hemming, request their release, and go. The reality is that most of these U20 boys populating the last few spots of the TFC Dev roster are not ready for USL or MLS. They need seasoning and they are not getting sufficient competition playing simple reserve friendlies. If you think any of these guys are ready for Europe...you are smoking something. Nana might be ready soon, but the rest aren't ready or simply don't have the paperwork (i.e. European passports) needed to make that kind of jump.
#2 If these players would not "look fondly" on playing in the CSL, then it tells me that they dont have what it takes to play pro soccer from the mental side of the game. These players need to play at the highest level they can and they are not getting that by playing 8 or 9 semi-competitive reserve league matches. These are still young men who have had the benefit to train with seasoned pros on a daily basis but they need a consistent competitive outlet where they can show that they are developing properly...they don't get that now. These young players should be begging to play in CSL. the Impact are already way ahead of TFC in this regard. They have a few promising players like Suprenant, Di Ioia, Nunez, Baldeh and Syllah (all under the age of 21) playing competitive matches in CSL for their Trois Rivieres Attak farm team. Those players may not have any more or less talent than the TFC Dev players but they are getting consistent high level competition and are improving more rapidly as a result.
In my opinion, TFC desperately needs a farm club, like Montreal has (and Vancouver's academy is essentially becoming a farm club when they are able to pluck players like Ethan Gage from their academy PDL team, put him in the starting lineup at 17 and he helps them win a USL championship). There are so many reasons why to do it and only 1 reason I can think of not to do it (because it would eat away at TFC's profit margins...CSL is not a profitable venture but its a great development league)
(missed the comment about pro coaches in TO, curious as to why they werent approached...)
Doesnt TFC already have a farm team in the CSL?
Under 17s or something?
I dont disagree with the idea of it
It's not TFC's fault that they aren't motivated to invest in a U-21 team or something similar. With the system we currently have anyone from that team that has trained under the TFC system ends up in the draft anyways. Look at the Colorado system... They've "had" a PDL team since 2000 (it's not exactly their team its just a PDL team with the same name but it's not like they can call the players up from it if they need to) and a number of MLS players have played for that team but only a small number have ever actually played a game for them. Dunivant, Jarrod Smith and Mike Zaher (now with DC) have all at some point played for the Colorado PDL team.
I don't think MLS rules would allow TFC to set up a U-21 team and then use it as a farm team where they can call players up if they need to especially if those players are NCAA players.
Stupid system
totaly retarded and i hope its addressed soon otherwise noone truly benefits (same goes for the academy system)
Does anyone know the details of the academy signing rules inside and out because the kid that LA just signed was only in their academy like 2 years but I could've sworn I was told the requirement was longer.
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