I'm gonna get crucified on this board for this statement but ................

[Shaughno]

I think Carver sees two benefits: One, teams saw how we played against KC and RSL and think they need to ensure that the Ricketts-Wynne overlap doesn't kill them all game, so as long as he leaves Ricketts on the right, he'll probably be double-teamed.

Teams WON'T double team Robert on that side becuase the assumption is that, with a historically noted much stronger left foot, he's much less likely to play the overlap with Wynne, which is tough to defend when you've got DD in the box waiting for crosses, and more likely to cut inside, where they have more defenders.

Carver's second reason, however, is that he recognizes something these coaches don't: letting Robert cut inside opens up shooting room for him, inswinging cross room for him, and central channels for Guevara and Edu to run into when a central player drifts left to cover Robert (his left, TFC's right).

The trouble is, with Robert more likely to be the dominating player, that forces Ricketts to play on the drop-back mid side with Brenna, where they'll typically be 15 yards behind the play to compensate in defensive zone coverage for the right flank being advanced. That's not typically his role, although you'll also note going over the video that in both of the last two games, he has tracked all the way back to the byline to cover a winger trying to break loose, so he's certainly working.

And on the odd occasion that he has gotten a ball up the left side, Ricketts has drawn two men again, leaving brennan to move to the top of the box for a run or cross.

All of these scenarios have taken place several times in both of the last two games, so that's my take.

Fucking perfect breakdown.

[joelakeshore]

I think Carver sees two benefits: One, teams saw how we played against KC and RSL and think they need to ensure that the Ricketts-Wynne overlap doesn't kill them all game, so as long as he leaves Ricketts on the right, he'll probably be double-teamed.

Teams WON'T double team Robert on that side becuase the assumption is that, with a historically noted much stronger left foot, he's much less likely to play the overlap with Wynne, which is tough to defend when you've got DD in the box waiting for crosses, and more likely to cut inside, where they have more defenders.

Carver's second reason, however, is that he recognizes something these coaches don't: letting Robert cut inside opens up shooting room for him, inswinging cross room for him, and central channels for Guevara and Edu to run into when a central player drifts left to cover Robert (his left, TFC's right).

The trouble is, with Robert more likely to be the dominating player, that forces Ricketts to play on the drop-back mid side with Brenna, where they'll typically be 15 yards behind the play to compensate in defensive zone coverage for the right flank being advanced. That's not typically his role, although you'll also note going over the video that in both of the last two games, he has tracked all the way back to the byline to cover a winger trying to break loose, so he's certainly working.

And on the odd occasion that he has gotten a ball up the left side, Ricketts has drawn two men again, leaving brennan to move to the top of the box for a run or cross.

All of these scenarios have taken place several times in both of the last two games, so that's my take.

^^Great breakdown jloome. As always, defensive and build up play by our midfielders and the sacrifices they make to advance position go relatively unnoticed. Maybe that's why RR is taking more flak than he deserves- people were expecting flashy attacking wing play from him, but I think his game and role so far in Carver's tactics is much more well rounded and nuanced than that, as you've shown. I think in that sense he's doing fine now, but the intricacy of these tactics and the understanding amongst the team that it requires will need more game experience to really pay dividends in attack- then people may start to stand up and take notice of his contributions.

[Shaughno]

It also highlights the differences in MoJo and Carver and being able to properly use tactics.

[giambac]

I was wondering how everyone feels about RR and Robert switching wings so often? I know it provides an edge to Laurent, letting him cut in and put the ball on his left foot, but is this tactic worth- what seems to me- to be a loss in effectiveness with RR on the left flank? Would RR be more effective if he was given more time on his natural wing?

He's a professional. If he can't adjust he can sit on the pines. We have Smith who can otherwise fill in.

[giambac]

I think you can see now why Ricketts was available! Extremely soft, zero grit!

Agreed!

[giambac]

As usual, fucking clueless. WHy do you even bother posting, if you think those ratings from the SCORE are realistic. If you've ever followed football anywhere that usesthe 10-pt ratings system, you'd know that handing out 7's and 8's is usually reserved for dominating performances where the other team was crushed, not 1-0 squeakers in which we were outshot.

Compare them with Goff's DC ratings from the Washington Post, from a footie writer who's been doing this for awhile and actually understands basic journalistic concepts like balance:

PLAYER RATINGS: Wells 4; Namoff 6, Peralta 5, McTavish 3, Martinez 5; Quaranta 4, Simms 5, Gallardo 5, Fred 3; Moreno 4, Emilio 4. Subs: Burch 5, Mediate 5, Doe 5.

A 'five' is usually considered an average-to-weak performance. A '6' is aver age-to-good, a seven is good, an eight is exceptional, a nine is dominating, a 10 is historic.

More realistically, our ratings from this game would be: Sutton 7, Wynne, 7, Velez 6, Marshall 7, Brennan, 6, Ricketts 5, Robinson 6, Edu 5, Guevara 6, Robert 5, Dichio 7.

And do you not find it odd, Giambac, that out of a couple thousand people watching these games and posting regulary on either this board or BS, all of about 10% see Ricketts as the same kind of liability you do?

Listen mate, you can keep this argument going for as long you want, but here's the final word on it from me: Games played by Rohan Ricketts in the english premiership and CCC over the last threeyears: 95. Games played by any other winger we have who's a natural right-side in the premiership and CCC: 0

Other TFC players currently being double teamed every time they touch the ball: arguably, 1, Guevara, because he's drawing both opposing centre mids. But other teams recognize the skills and are double teaming the right side because of the combined threat posed by Ricketts and Wynne.

I think Jarrod Smith has a very bright future, because he works hard, thinks quickly and is technically competent. But if you think he has the same skill set as Rohan Ricketts, then you are a complete and utter fucking idiot, and wasting any more time trying to explain this to you is exactly that, a waste of time.

My points/My arguments

1) according to your rating above - RR was still ineffective
2) How about we use Coach Carvers assment- He took RR out in the 50th minute.
3) Your correct RR ha smore experience. More skill tahn Smith. However Smith is a steal at $17k.
How much is RR making. Please let me know I think with the amount they are paying him and the hit on the salary cap could have been used for a striker. The team is solid at midfield with Guevera,Robert,Robinson etc. Ricketts was the 3rd signing and I don't thinkl they needed him. They should have allocated his $$ to a striker. Considering Smiths low pay his bvalue is more effective in a salary cap world. You don't hav eto be a genius to figure that out. It was a mistake to pay good coin for an ineffective player. Look at the opportunity lost because of his signing.

[Shaughno]

1) according to his rating he was average to weak. Meaning he wasn't good or bad.
2) Carver took him out in the 50th, but it has been mentioned that he took a knock and that could have been the reasoning behind it. Also, it's been the natural sub in every game. This game was about 5-10 mins earlier, no big deal.
3) Smith does seem to be a steal at $17k, but we can only give him so much playing time before we have to bump up his salary from Dev to senior roster (I believe anyway).

Ricketts was the 3rd signing and going into that signing who was the next best choice to start at RM? Smith? We hadn't seen enough to judge at that point. Harmse? Nope. Hemming? Nope. If Carver thought he was better than Ricketts he would have held on to him.

Besides, you don't want to burn out a kid like Smith in starting him every game and have him turn into a Lombardo. He works as a super sub, why change that right now.

[J .]

Jarrod Smith needs to start ahead of Rohan Ricketts in the next game

No Ricketts does what is asked of him.

[giambac]

1) according to his rating he was average to weak. Meaning he wasn't good or bad.
2) Carver took him out in the 50th, but it has been mentioned that he took a knock and that could have been the reasoning behind it. Also, it's been the natural sub in every game. This game was about 5-10 mins earlier, no big deal.
3) Smith does seem to be a steal at $17k, but we can only give him so much playing time before we have to bump up his salary from Dev to senior roster (I believe anyway).

Ricketts was the 3rd signing and going into that signing who was the next best choice to start at RM? Smith? We hadn't seen enough to judge at that point. Harmse? Nope. Hemming? Nope. If Carver thought he was better than Ricketts he would have held on to him.

Besides, you don't want to burn out a kid like Smith in starting him every game and have him turn into a Lombardo. He works as a super sub, why change that right now.

I need to know how much does RR make. None of his supporters seem to want to answer the question. Knowing what he makes and the impact it ha son future signings can affect what people think of him and his performance

Anyone know what he makes??

[Shaughno]

IF I FUCKING KNEW WHAT HE MADE I WOULD HAVE POSTED IT.


Regardless, how much he makes does not change the fact that he's doing his job well enough for the coach to have enough confidence in starting him every game. How much he makes should not affect your judgement on his performance.


Is Robinson overpaid? Yes! Do I think he should be replaced for someone cheaper? HELL NO! It's no different really.

[trane]

1) according to his rating he was average to weak. Meaning he wasn't good or bad.
2) Carver took him out in the 50th, but it has been mentioned that he took a knock and that could have been the reasoning behind it. Also, it's been the natural sub in every game. This game was about 5-10 mins earlier, no big deal.
3) Smith does seem to be a steal at $17k, but we can only give him so much playing time before we have to bump up his salary from Dev to senior roster (I believe anyway).

Ricketts was the 3rd signing and going into that signing who was the next best choice to start at RM? Smith? We hadn't seen enough to judge at that point. Harmse? Nope. Hemming? Nope. If Carver thought he was better than Ricketts he would have held on to him.

Besides, you don't want to burn out a kid like Smith in starting him every game and have him turn into a Lombardo. He works as a super sub, why change that right now.

I have made this point before, I like Smith as a sub, for Ricketts but what I would like even more, is him as a sub for Dichio as opposed to Cunny. He seems to have a quick trigger, good shot and good skils on the ball, I really would not like to see him developed like a winger, but rather as a striker.

[Shaughno]

Trane... agree 100% Either that or as an Attacking Mid. Somewhere that his eye for goal can be more utilized.

[rocker]

My points/My arguments

How much is RR making. Please let me know I think with the amount they are paying him and the hit on the salary cap could have been used for a striker. The team is solid at midfield with Guevera,Robert,Robinson etc. Ricketts was the 3rd signing and I don't thinkl they needed him. They should have allocated his $$ to a striker. Considering Smiths low pay his bvalue is more effective in a salary cap world. You don't hav eto be a genius to figure that out. It was a mistake to pay good coin for an ineffective player. Look at the opportunity lost because of his signing.

Your statements above are based on information you don't know.. yet you make the argument anyways???

1) you don't know how much Ricketts makes so you can't just his effectiveness versus his pay (if he was making 60K, would it matter??)
2) you don't know how much room Mojo has against the cap. The salary of any one player only matters if Mojo doesn't have any room left. Since we don't know what that # is, we shouldn't be concerned with the salary difference between Smith and Ricketts, particularly when we don't know what Ricketts earns.
3) we can still have a striker if there's cap room. If there isn't cap room, trade Cunny and voila, you have cap room. Trades can be made at any time within MLS.

[trane]

Yeah, attacking Mid, would be good as well. He has an eye for goal.

[AL-MO]

Ricketts takes WAY too many touches on the ball...

[Shaughno]

Ricketts takes WAY too many touches on the ball...

I agree somewhat. Most of the time he makes it work though, it draws the defenders in close and then it allows him to play the ball for others.

[giambac]

IF I FUCKING KNEW WHAT HE MADE I WOULD HAVE POSTED IT.


Regardless, how much he makes does not change the fact that he's doing his job well enough for the coach to have enough confidence in starting him every game. How much he makes should not affect your judgement on his performance.


Is Robinson overpaid? Yes! Do I think he should be replaced for someone cheaper? HELL NO! It's no different really.

You are totally missing the point.

What I'm saying is that what a player makes has an affect on the whole team. You can argue that RR at this time is a better player than Smith given his age and experience. However that doesn't mean it was a good signing.

Let's look at it from a baseball poit of view. People can argue that Roger Clemons is a better pitcher than Jesse Litsch on the Blue Jays given his age and experience. Roger would win more games. However Roger would ask for say $10 million a year. Jesse is making the minimum salary of $500k. Who is more effective for the Jays to have - Simple answer is Litsch. They could use the other $9.5 million to sign other players and fill other gaps on the team.

That's why I'm saying RR signing and his salary has to be taken into account. Say he makes $200k. In a saalry cap world it affects future signings the team could have made. This is not difficult to understand. The Leafs are fucked for future years becasue they overpaid palyers who aren't performing.

If RR is making $200k and Smith is at $17k the extar $193 kcould have been used for a striker. Although Smith may not be at par with RR, he would be a solid playe rto have in the midfield and the savings would have brought in more players. GOT IT.

This is how you build ateam in a salary cap world. You don't go out there and overpay for mediaocre players.

[Bobo]

Jarrod Smith needs to start ahead of Rohan Ricketts in the next game

I said the same thing during yesterday's game. Wake Rohan up before Guevara leaves.

[denime]

I need to know how much does RR make. None of his supporters seem to want to answer the question. Knowing what he makes and the impact it ha son future signings can affect what people think of him and his performance

Anyone know what he makes??

Who gives a fuck how mush is he making or anybody else?Are you paying him from your pocket,no so keep quite please.If you want to compare players by their performance ok,but salaries not your or our fucking business at all.
Your statement knowing what he makes just sows how how much you
know when it comes to players performances.

[denime]

As usual, fucking clueless. WHy do you even bother posting, if you think those ratings from the SCORE are realistic. If you've ever followed football anywhere that usesthe 10-pt ratings system, you'd know that handing out 7's and 8's is usually reserved for dominating performances where the other team was crushed, not 1-0 squeakers in which we were outshot.

Compare them with Goff's DC ratings from the Washington Post, from a footie writer who's been doing this for awhile and actually understands basic journalistic concepts like balance:

PLAYER RATINGS: Wells 4; Namoff 6, Peralta 5, McTavish 3, Martinez 5; Quaranta 4, Simms 5, Gallardo 5, Fred 3; Moreno 4, Emilio 4. Subs: Burch 5, Mediate 5, Doe 5.

A 'five' is usually considered an average-to-weak performance. A '6' is aver age-to-good, a seven is good, an eight is exceptional, a nine is dominating, a 10 is historic.

More realistically, our ratings from this game would be: Sutton 7, Wynne, 7, Velez 6, Marshall 7, Brennan, 6, Ricketts 5, Robinson 6, Edu 5, Guevara 6, Robert 5, Dichio 7.

And do you not find it odd, Giambac, that out of a couple thousand people watching these games and posting regulary on either this board or BS, all of about 10% see Ricketts as the same kind of liability you do?

Listen mate, you can keep this argument going for as long you want, but here's the final word on it from me: Games played by Rohan Ricketts in the english premiership and CCC over the last threeyears: 95. Games played by any other winger we have who's a natural right-side in the premiership and CCC: 0

Other TFC players currently being double teamed every time they touch the ball: arguably, 1, Guevara, because he's drawing both opposing centre mids. But other teams recognize the skills and are double teaming the right side because of the combined threat posed by Ricketts and Wynne.

I think Jarrod Smith has a very bright future, because he works hard, thinks quickly and is technically competent. But if you think he has the same skill set as Rohan Ricketts, then you are a complete and utter fucking idiot, and wasting any more time trying to explain this to you is exactly that, a waste of time.

giambac educate yourself by reading this post,every morning before you leave a house read once.

[Limani_Ole]

You dont sub someone off at 50min for playing the way he is supposed too...

If your tactic is to have Ricketts play a more defensive role and he is doing the job you dont sub him at 50'.. and more importantly through Smith in to attack down the wing.. Why wouldn't Carver ask Ricketts to attack down the right since he is a better player?

If you watch around the end of the first half Carver was ripping into Ricketts to push up.. pointing etc.. dont know if anyone else saw this..

[Fort York Redcoat]

I thought Ricketts would have more scoring opportunities but he's contributing. Maybe sub Smith in at the hour mark...

[ACSertL]

Anyone ever think they may be taking him off at the 50 minute mark because he is going to play on Saturday? Might explain some of it.

[Limani_Ole]

Anyone ever think they may be taking him off at the 50 minute mark because he is going to play on Saturday? Might explain some of it.

dont think this is the case..
Carver has explained several times he always plays his best squad no matter what..

Cathal Kelly wrote in his blog - http://thestar.blogs.com/torontofc/

"Carver also said that Jarrod Smith is very close to cracking the starting XI, one presumes in place of the out-of-touch looking Rohan Ricketts. Bottom line: the change will not happen while the club is still winning. But if this team needs a roster shake-up to jog the offence in the case of a loss, Smith will clearly be the first option."

[giambac]

You dont sub someone off at 50min for playing the way he is supposed too...

If your tactic is to have Ricketts play a more defensive role and he is doing the job you dont sub him at 50'.. and more importantly through Smith in to attack down the wing.. Why wouldn't Carver ask Ricketts to attack down the right since he is a better player?

If you watch around the end of the first half Carver was ripping into Ricketts to push up.. pointing etc.. dont know if anyone else saw this..

Your point is valid and I also saw Carver ripping into RR. He didn't perform or listen to the coach and was yanked. Problem is you got guys on this forum who don't understand the game and aren't watching the whole game and how it is being played out. Carver is a fan of RR and he is the one who brought him hear. For him to be ripping into RR yesterday tells you what he thought of his permance. Yet you get ignornant people who don't understand and are in love with RR. Maybe they think he is cute, I don't know???

[ACSertL]

dont think this is the case..

Carver has explained several times he always plays his best squad no matter what..

As much as Carver would love to play his favoured starting 11 as often as possible, 4 games in 2 weeks might change his mind a little. Or maybe he wanted to get a good look at Smith? Loads of questions and I don't have the answers.

I didn't think Ricketts had his best game, but I didn't think he was overly poor.

[Jamaicanadian]

Your point is valid and I also saw Carver ripping into RR. He didn't perform or listen to the coach and was yanked. Problem is you got guys on this forum who don't understand the game and aren't watching the whole game and how it is being played out. Carver is a fan of RR and he is the one who brought him hear. For him to be ripping into RR yesterday tells you what he thought of his permance. Yet you get ignornant people who don't understand and are in love with RR. Maybe they think he is cute, I don't know???

I thought I read that Mo was the one that got in touch with R-doubles agent...I saw Carver touch R-double in a fatherly kinda way as he left the field....BTW, aren't you the guy that is suggesting that we should use cost effectiveness and salary as the criteria for our starting IX LOL!

[Limani_Ole]

Your point is valid and I also saw Carver ripping into RR. He didn't perform or listen to the coach and was yanked. Problem is you got guys on this forum who don't understand the game and aren't watching the whole game and how it is being played out. Carver is a fan of RR and he is the one who brought him hear. For him to be ripping into RR yesterday tells you what he thought of his permance. Yet you get ignornant people who don't understand and are in love with RR. Maybe they think he is cute, I don't know???

not much you can say to someone who thinks they know eveything already.. whats up with people taking things personally too.. lets keep it to a civilized discussion..

and the post with people simply writting "agreed" is fucking annoying.. no-one cares you agree.. please feel free to add to this discussion with ideas that you wanna throw out there.. and see what people say and what perspective others may have..

the " agreed" post make this thread 4 pages with 1 page of content

[Broadview]

When Ricketts was a rumor around here I emailed a buddy in Wolverhampton, blabbing about TFC and asking about Rohan Ricketts. Here's what he had to say:

"I did see Rohan Ricketts play a couple of times. I have to be honest and say he didn't make a great impression. He was the butt of a few jokes by Wolves fans. He wasn't terrible but he certainly didn't set the league on fire!

I quite liked Carl Robinson. Dependable player. Danny Dichio i wasn't a fan of but he certainly had his moments. Scored a couple of spectacular goals for QPR.

Hopefully Stu and i will get the chance to see a MLS game one day and you a Premiership game (when Wolves get promoted of course!)."

I guess the guy's been through this kind of stuff before. I hope he's not paying too close attention, because I've enjoyed watching him play for TFC. I haven't heard too much in this thread about RR's defensive play, but since he's arrived, to me this has been a nice surprise. There have been a couple of times when he's cleared the ball amid scrambles deep in the box that have made me say "whew, glad he hustled back".

jloom made great points about why Carer switches RR and Robert, but when that happens Ricketts seems to disappear from the action for some reason. We don't see him getting the ball in our end and sprinting up the field as much. We don't see him and Jimmy creating overlaps like we do with Wynne, and we don't see Robert and Wynne doing it as much when Laurent's over there either. Could it be a chemistry thing? I do remember Jimmy getting all mad on one occasion when Rohan didn't deliver that pass and I had a chuckle.

Smith has been a revelation. I love how he barges around all over the field and has a nose for the goal. He plays angry, like it's the other team that gave him that haircut or something. That kind of energy seems to always win over sports fans in this city. Lets hear it for the supplemental draft and the USL! I like him as a super-sub. He'll also push Ricketts to perform as well, which is what I think Carver was up to in the press after yesterday. It's nice to have the depth of Smith and Dunny on the bench, that's for sure.

[Fort York Redcoat]

RR contributes but I expected more shots from him. Smith can come in at 60 mark...