Penalty Kicks Analysis - TFC compared to rest of MLS

[ensco]

1) Notwithstanding the widespread perception here that we've been picked on by the refs in terms of non-calls for PKs, the numbers indicate that we get our fair share of them. We got 3 out of 44 called league wide. 6 teams got 3 PKs this year, 4 got more than 3, 4 got less than 3.
2) We don't make them (we knew that already!) .
3) Teams that are good at making them generally don't use a committee system, they often have a single player whose job it is to take them. Colorado is the exception but they had a lot of injuries (Gomez, McManus and Casey all missed significant games), which is why I think they had 4 different PK takers...


Penalty kicks in 2008 (made/attempted):

Colorado (5/7) Cooke 0/1, Casey 2/2, Gomez 2/2, McManus 1/2
FC Dallas (4/4) Cooper 4/4
Columbus (4/5) Schelotto 4/4, Moreno 0/1
DCU (4/5) Moreno 4/5
Chicago (3/3) Blanco 3/3
KC (3/3) Jewsbury 2/2, Lopez 1/1
LA (3/3) Donovan 3/3
NY (2/3) Angel 1/2, Magee 1/1
Chivas (1/1) Talley 1/1
NE (1/2) Joseph 0/1, Ralston 1/1
RSL (1/2) Kovalenko 1/1, Morales 0/1
Houston (1/3) Ching 0/1, De Rosario 1/1, Holden 0/1
TFC (0/3) Guevara 0/1, Ricketts 0/1, Samuel 0/1
SJ No PKs

[Roogsy]

Any stats on how many we get called against us? I am guessing that we get a fair share of that as well.

[Lucky Strike]

Any stats on how many we get called against us? I am guessing that we get a fair share of that as well.

Yup. We get so much more called against us than we get in return. Or maybe it's a perception thing that you only remember the bad (as in against TFC, not necessarily incorrect) calls.

[ensco]

great question - I was just figuring that out!

2008 PKs allowed (goals/attempts):

Colorado 4/5
SJ 3/5
Columbus 2/5
LA 4/4
RSL 4/4
KC 3/3
Chivas 2/3
NE 2/3
NY 2/3
FC Dallas 1/1
Chicago 0/1
Houston 0/1
DCU 0/0

and


*drumroll*


TFC 5/6 the league leaders in PKs conceded and PK goals allowed

It's somewhat, but not highly, correlated to playoff position, I would say.

[kodiakTFC]

Doesn't surprise me at all! Every time we went to the PK spot I felt like it wasn't going in and whenever we conceded a shot I was always 100% sure it was in. Intuition is a bitch.

[Roogsy]

Columbus has a nice save percentage!

Man did we get screwed in PKs...I knew it wasn't just perception.

[Shaughno]

Screwed? Nah, I'd say at least 4.. if not 5 of the PK's against us were valid calls. More like screwed by our players.

[Roogsy]

You are indeed the anti-Roogs.

You wouldn't perchance be vegetarian would you?

[ACSertL]

Don't want to miss penalties eh? There is only one solution to that...get a German to take them.

[Shaughno]

You are indeed the anti-Roogs.

You wouldn't perchance be vegetarian would you?

No honestly, do you really think we were screwed on penalties? I'm also of the persuasion that while the reffing has been bad, it's not as one sided as the majority here seem to think.

Maybe, just maybe... it's because was a referee and actually pay attention to what the ref's call for and against us.

If there was a way to post a video of the penalties from this year, I would prove it to you. I cannot, so you'll have to take my word.

[olegunnar]

5 of the last 9 PKs awarded were in the last 5 minutes of a game.

14 of the 44 awarded this year or 32% were awarded in the last 10 minutes of the game

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm

[Shaughno]

MLS Refs = SHITE

That is one thing I'm very sure of.

[olegunnar]

MLS Refs = SHITE

That is one thing I'm very sure of.

That's for sure.

It is mildly interesting and a bit of a fun time waster at work to check out the stats page on the MLS site.

You'd think the league was trying to get Dallas and DC in the palyoffs...with Dallas getting back to back injury time equalizer penalties (first against SJ, then against us). Or DC getting an 85th minute penalty (that Moreno missed) in a 0-0 draw with the NYRB.

Nothing damning, especially since it's just MLS, but fun nonetheless to look at and joke about.

[ACSertL]

I wonder how many penalties ended up tying or winning a game.

[olegunnar]

I wonder how many penalties ended up tying or winning a game.

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/stats/i...=mls&year=2008

Penalties are the last stat...so at the bottom of the page

[ACSertL]

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/stats/i...=mls&year=2008

Penalties are the last stat...so at the bottom of the page

Thanks for the link!

[Technorgasm]

MLS Refs = SHITE

That is one thing I'm very sure of.

Yup. Give Shughno a gold star.

That Dallas one might be the difference in post-season for TFC.


chewing on that fact leaves a bitter, bitter taste in MY mouth. .


THERE WAS NO CLEAR SCORING CHANCE!

[Red CB Toronto]

Does it not count as a penalty kick goal when you score on the rebound as Rohan did the other day, I noticed you listed him as 0/1, just curious.

[Shaughno]

Nope, that is a goal in regulation play.

[Broadview]

Personally, the Vancouver PK we conceded was the biggest downer. Cooper's a close second.

[Shaughno]

You know what was the biggest downer for me? Watching our players make BONEHEAD mistakes that led to dangerous FK or PK's late in the game.

[olegunnar]

How about the +/- for penalties for and against

team (for/against +/-)
DC 5/0 +5
Dallas 4/1 +3
Crapids 7/5 +2
Houst 3/1 +2
Chi 3/1 +2
Colum 5/5 even
KC 3/3 even
NY 3/3 even
LA 3/4 -1
NER 2/3 -1
RSL 2/4 -2
Chiv 1/3 -2
The MIGHTY TFC 6/3 -3
SJ 0/5 -5

[olegunnar]

You know what was the biggest downer for me? Watching our players make BONEHEAD mistakes that led to dangerous FK or PK's late in the game.

You mean like:
Velez trying to head a ball that was 6 inches off the ground against LA?
Or Wynn's 2 handed shove, for no reason, of the DC player?
Guevara getting caught retaliating?
Wynn's foul on Robbie Rogers against the KKKRew?
How about the I got it, no you got it, oops neither of us got it charade Marshall and Sutton pulled against KC that led to a penalty?

The first two were the worst, although since we beat LA I think we all have had some laughs about Velez's faceplant penalty.

[Shaughno]

You mean like:
Velez trying to head a ball that was 6 inches off the ground against LA?
Or Wynn's 2 handed shove, for no reason, of the DC player?
Guevara getting caught retaliating?
Wynn's foul on Robbie Rogers against the KKKRew?
How about the I got it, no you got it, oops neither of us got it charade Marshall and Sutton pulled against KC that led to a penalty?

The first two were the worst, although since we beat LA I think we all have had some laughs about Velez's faceplant penalty.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees through the 'conspiracy' against TFC.

[ensco]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees through the 'conspiracy' against TFC.

The data shows no evidence of any conspiracy.

There is a weak linkage between getting penalties and points, same for not conceding penalties. It's also unclear what cause and effect are - it's easy to argue that BECAUSE teams are weak, they get fewer PKs, and give more up.

We tend not to remember the calls that go our way, these were all weak calls that easily come to mind:
- the penalty given against Cunningham in the opener
- the penalty given that Guevara took against SJ
- Sutton leaving the line 2 seconds early on the stop against Columbus

[Shaughno]

Oh I know, but some people would lead you to believe otherwise. I always find it funny to read the ref threads after a 'bad call'.

[Bobo]

0 for 3. Does that not sum our season up so well?