Detroit in MLS. Whaddya Think?

[DichioTFC]

y is this?

i never knew this situation could economically exist

1960s race riots in Detroit led to 'white flight', which caused businessmen and businesses to leave the city other than the well established that couldn't leave because of long-term leases with the city (GM, Ford). Managers that now lived in the burbs made place of residence a factor when deciding to hire other employees - led to declining wealth in the major city and increased purchasing power in the burbs.

Imagine Toronto having serious rioting and anarchy (other than the G20) and businesses leaving. They would go to the 905 and the 416 would be in a similar situation.

There are a lot of other factors (google Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick - two hilariously bad / criminal former Detroit mayors) and there have been many mistakes in the city, but that's a bit of synopsis of why its like that.

[lobo]

Well, they still have the old Tigers stadium still up and nobody seems to know what to do with it.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...00968,0.002688

Plus, there is alot of land around the stadium for expansion.

tiger stadium is gone, torn down ... the only thing left is the wrought iron fencing along michigan and trumbull, and the field including pitching mound ... local corktown residents are actually mowing the grass and using it for local pickup games ... last time i was driving by, we watched some guy on his little riding mower cutting the infield grass while other people played catch in the outfield

and as for available land, detroit is the king of urban blight ... there is miles and miles of inner city blocks that are abandonded and owned by the city. you don't have to go far to find a full city block with only one or two houses standing, the rest are all abandoned and razed, and the same scene repeated every block, its surreal ...some plans call for the abandoned blocks to be used as farm land

white flight, then black flight, now urban blight

[DichioTFC]

This was exactly my point. They don't really have an owner. Until then they aren't really a viable option.

Whether MLS is going to wait is another story.

I don't think a second MLS team in NYC is viable, period. They're dividing a very small pie and NYRB ownership has their own issues - https://soccer.fakesigi.com/new_york...onspiracy.html. I think MLS will force the issue once they convince an owner to come on board.

[kodiakTFC]

DC's owners are looking to relocate. Everyone is pretty sure they're going to Baltimore, but it would be interesting to see if they can move the franchise to Michigan. Either that or FC Dallas (they have to be bleeding money since nobody shows up to the games)

DC United is looking to stay in DC but is willing to relocate to a surrounding area. They don't want to lose their fanbase so they are looking at Baltimore because its close. To be honest, I think it is just political gesturing and they'll never leave DC.

FC Dallas is profitable. They may not make their money selling tickets but with all their fields and the system they've set up, they do quite well.

New York Cosmos or NY2 better not use RBA, they'll just be repeating the same problem and they'll split a marginal fanbase making both teams fail. Red Bull is finally starting to turn around at the gate and Cosmos should only join the league if they won't affect that, ie. being downtown.

[menefreghista]

I don't think a second MLS team in NYC is viable, period. They're dividing a very small pie and NYRB ownership has their own issues - https://soccer.fakesigi.com/new_york...onspiracy.html. I think MLS will force the issue once they convince an owner to come on board.

I agree with you there. No sense adding a 2nd team when the 1st isn't playing to capacity.

It easy to argue that soccer is just not strong enough in North America for multiple teams in one city. Chivas should be relocated too.

[Beach_Red]

1960s race riots in Detroit led to 'white flight', which caused businessmen and businesses to leave the city other than the well established that couldn't leave because of long-term leases with the city (GM, Ford). Managers that now lived in the burbs made place of residence a factor when deciding to hire other employees - led to declining wealth in the major city and increased purchasing power in the burbs.

Imagine Toronto having serious rioting and anarchy (other than the G20) and businesses leaving. They would go to the 905 and the 416 would be in a similar situation.

There are a lot of other factors (google Coleman Young and Kwame Kilpatrick - two hilariously bad / criminal former Detroit mayors) and there have been many mistakes in the city, but that's a bit of synopsis of why its like that.

Oh, Kwame, that's funny stuff.

But in addition to "white flight" the big difference between Detroit and Toronto is amalgamation - all the suburbs around Detroit are seperate entities so the downtown really has no tax base so it has very understaffed infrastructure - everything from schools to police to health inpsectors, basically everything that runs a city. And so it gets worse.

But like those Chrysler commercials say, Detroit will be back.

And right now a soccer team in the Silverdome would probably do very well.

[kodiakTFC]

I agree with you there. No sense adding a 2nd team when the 1st isn't playing to capacity.

It easy to argue that soccer is just not strong enough in North America for multiple teams in one city. Chivas should be relocated too.

That's not really fair because NYRB don't play in New York, they are in New Jersey. What if TFC was put in Hamilton, does low attendance in Hamilton mean Toronto isn't suitable for a team? Red Bull's attendance is steadily improving, they deserve some kudos, sure they are spending a lot of money to do so but its great for the league and it seems to be working.

Chivas USA is an enigma, attendance wise they do pretty well (although I question how many tickets sold compares to tickets distributed). If I was Chivas' ownership I would look to relocate on top of rebranding, I think they could do well elsewhere in LA or nearby in San Diego.

[Brooker]

And just think of the intensity a Toronto-Detroit derby could bring.

Why would it be a derby and why would it be intense?

[menefreghista]

That's not really fair because NYRB don't play in New York, they are in New Jersey. What if TFC was put in Hamilton, does low attendance in Hamilton mean Toronto isn't suitable for a team? Red Bull's attendance is steadily improving, they deserve some kudos, sure they are spending a lot of money to do so but its great for the league and it seems to be working.

Come on, that area of New Jersey has long been a part of the New York City sporting landscape. Or are you going to tell me that the Giants and Jets aren't real New York teams either?

The point is moot anyways. The Cosmos don't have a real owner, or even a real stadium plan. Until those issues are solved there won't be a 2nd MLS team in New York.

[kodiakTFC]

Come on, that area of New Jersey has long been a part of the New York City sporting landscape. Or are you going to tell me that the Giants and Jets aren't real New York teams either?

The point is moot anyways. The Cosmos don't have a real owner, or even a real stadium plan. Until those issues are solved there won't be a 2nd MLS team in New York.

I agree but all I'm saying is a Cosmos team playing in the heart of new york in a SSS could be absolutely massive for MLS. Your point about sporting landscape applies only to Football, a sport where the fans show up once every two weeks and require a ton of land for tailgates. It's not soccer and the fans have different requirements.

A NFL stadium anywhere in GTA would be huge but if BMO had been in the outskirts, it would've been a failure.

[TorontoBlades]

Come on, that area of New Jersey has long been a part of the New York City sporting landscape. Or are you going to tell me that the Giants and Jets aren't real New York teams either?

The point is moot anyways. The Cosmos don't have a real owner, or even a real stadium plan. Until those issues are solved there won't be a 2nd MLS team in New York.

It's hard to get to that stadium. If I lived in NY I would go on a Sunday morning and tailgate all day and watch an NFL game...but I probably wouldn't make that same trip for an MLS game....now if (theoretically) it was accessable by train like Yankee Stadium or MSG, that would be a completely different story. put it in Queens and it would do well

[kodiakTFC]

It's hard to get to that stadium. If I lived in NY I would go on a Sunday morning and tailgate all day and watch an NFL game...but I probably wouldn't make that same trip for an MLS game....now if (theoretically) it was accessable by train like Yankee Stadium or MSG, that would be a completely different story. put it in Queens and it would do well

This is what I'm saying and not only would it do well but it would help the Red Bulls. I don't think many people from New York proper actually go to Red Bull games because of how inconvienent it is. A team in NYproper wouldn't steal fans for the Red Bulls and would aid them in attendance via igniting a rivalry and some relevancy in the sporting landscape.

[Oldtimer]

Why would it be a derby and why would it be intense?

Agreed. Toronto-Montreal will always be the true rivalry. Even Columbus-Toronto is a pale imitation, tasers and all.

I think it's much more likely that we'll get an USL-1 or -2 team in the next 5-10 years. I understand that some people in USL have been talking to some people locally about making that happen.

That seems like a good possibility.

[P-NUTZ]

detroit is brutal - what about florida?

seems like the next best option of very, very few - if any.
P.

[Beach_Red]

I think it's much more likely that we'll get an USL-1 or -2 team in the next 5-10 years. I understand that some people in USL have been talking to some people locally about making that happen.

Maybe by then there will be relegation and we'll be in the same division .

[menefreghista]

I think in 5-10 years the USL/NASL won't even exist.

What are they at now? 8 teams.

Once Montreal leaves next year I wonder how it will survive in the future.

[TFC07]

YES! YES! YES!

For selfish reasons, I want Detroit to join MLS. I wonder who South western Ontarians will be rooting for if Detroit joins MLS.

[nfitz]

I think in 5-10 years the USL/NASL won't even exist.

What are they at now? 8 teams.

20 teams in the two leagues (USL and NASL). While Montreal leave, a couple are expected to enter.

I suspect the league(s) structure will continue to change, but I'm sure there'll be something there in future years.

[kodiakTFC]

I think in 5-10 years the USL/NASL won't even exist.

What are they at now? 8 teams.

Once Montreal leaves next year I wonder how it will survive in the future.

8 in NASL. When Montreal leaves next season San Antonio will take their spot. NASL looks safe, they just need to build slowly and remain stringest in their expansion process. I hope Hamilton/Ottawa/Calgary find their way into NASL.

12 in USL. League is weird place, half the league does very well in attendance (2-3k) and the rest of the league doesn't belong there. USL's selection process is a joke and the future of the USL will be very interesting. Expect an expansion of 8 or so teams next year (West division) and many of them lasting a year, if that.

[__wowza]

http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=4246

USL/NASL attendance numbers to put some of your comments in perspective.

[__wowza]

what i don't understand is why teams don't start up regardless. start up a franchise, put yourself in the NASL, and work towards a presentation to the garber with what you have. "we're already operational, we've already got ties to the community, we have a fanbase, we can work on getting a SSS and we're ready to be a part of the MLS" sounds a lot better than "give us a team because this could work.

[swan]

my wife said before that one should go there she thinks that it would be good ( we live an hr and a little away) but i don't see how it would go well i can't even find a pub here that shows soccer on tv.. maybe it's better closer to the city but i'm like the outcast here when i talk soccer..

[kodiakTFC]

http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=4246

USL/NASL attendance numbers to put some of your comments in perspective.

Thats dated, use http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/

[Alixir]

i'm starting to not give a fuck who gets teams anymore. i'm not a fan of the expansion process. hurry up already.

I know how you feel...I am sick of seeing teams that started after us doing better then us every year.

[Oldtimer]

Thats dated, use http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/

Toronto Lynx are drawing 200/game in the PDL!!!

[Miko]

Bring back the Express!

[__wowza]

Thats dated, use http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/

didn't see that, cheers.

[kodiakTFC]

didn't see that, cheers.

Orlando City's attendance is pretty damn impressive for a minor league side. I know their ownership is looking at MLS and this whole USL-pro thing for them is a stepping stone but if they plan on using the Citrus Bowl for MLS then no way.

[Cashcleaner]

Bumped, for this bit of news on the eve of tonight's matches at Ford Field.

Toronto based Silverdome owner submits bid for an MLS expansion team in Detroit.

In the immortal words of P.T. Barnum, there's a sucker born every minute.

Triple Sports may indeed submit an expansion bid to the league and perhaps against all odds they are actually awarded a club over other cities like New York, Atlanta, or Miami. But I am very doubtful that a team is going to draw enough crowds at Pontiac to sustain itself. Obviously, a four-hour road trip sounds great for us Toronto FC fans, but that simply won't be enough to generate enough local interest to support a team and make it profitable.

[Beach_Red]

^ Not every ownership has a great market gift-wrapped and handed to them. Like any new product, sometimes a market has to be developed.

But Michigan, from college sports to the pro teams they support, is a solid sports market and maybe a well-run soccer team could break in. Who knows, maybe if they have to work to build a up a market they won't let it fritter away...