Detroit in MLS. Whaddya Think?

[Detroit_TFC]

IMO there are no "good" or "bad" markets. Any major metropolitan area with infrastructure to get people to the stadium could theoretically support a team. However, there are ownership groups that make good business decisions and bad business decisions. For example, I was skeptical about Philly due to the saturation of sports teams there. Their ownership group made some good decisions and were able to carve out some space. Columbus started off that way then HSG let things fall apart. It's hard to say what kind of owners a Detroit team would have.

More:
The placement of teams should be a strategic decision by the league to expand the footprint of the league. Unfortunately it appears to be an auction instead of planned growth. If a crazy billionaire in Fargo, North Dakota threw $75 million at the MLS Board, I think Fargo would get a team.

On the other hand, St Louis was a perfect location for a footprint expansion, along much the same grounds as Detroit (geographic more than anything else). But that ownership group turned out to be a disaster, MLS was smart to avoid them.

[__wowza]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/articl...s-detroit-2013

http://www.freep.com/article/2011060...xt|FRONTPAGE|s


two new detroit articles.

[james]

personally, i think this league needs to avoid what happened to the NASL v1.
the league grew too fast, too soon.

it's not so much about whoever has the money, because money runs out. it's about finding a viable market and sustaining that market over the long run. countless teams fold because they change ownership groups, and i'm glad the MLS is taking it slow and steady.

MLSE seem to be on the same path. TFC grew bigger then MLSE and MLS thought it would, and then they grew faster with prices increase quicker then the fans thought they would. They are on a slipperry path!

[james]

if the owners were like Drew Carrey and put the effort in to getting all the supporters in Detroit together and help create a great atmosphere then who knows Detroit might work (just like any city could). However if they are like many others in MLS who dont understand the breed of soccer fans and just act as if its like any typical fan in Baseball, hockey, Basketball exc.... then no chance can the team work. The soccer moms will fade just like NASL did.

[Redcoe15]

The Motor City Supporters were given a sneak peak at the plans for a renovated Silverdome.





If this guy pulls it off, he deserves to have an MLS team play there.

[james]

The Motor City Supporters were given a sneak peak at the plans for a renovated Silverdome.





If this guy pulls it off, he deserves to have an MLS team play there.

wait im a bit confused here how this would work. Would it be a hockey rink and a concert stage under neath the soccer stadium?? how would they even build this? poor concrete above the lower venues?

only thing i could think of is it something sort of how Ottawa 67s and the ottawa roughriders stadium use to be? Ottawa 67s playing underground to the ottawa roughriders.

the soccer stadium does look nice tho if it would look anything like in this pic. but youd also have to ask how much would this cost? what would they even need a 20,000 hockey rink for it probably wouldnt be quite up to NHL standerds and not good enough for the red wings to move into. Concert?? might work, seems places always using venues for bands,pop stars exc.

[boban]

Yeah but the drive from Detroit is 45min at best. Way too far to work.

[CSO_BBTB]

So far out in the burbs it may actually be easier to get there via the Bluewater Bridge in Sarnia rather than going through Detroit if travelling from London, Ont. or further east. Being well away from downtown isn't necessarily a bad thing in Detroit, however. Was there on foot many years ago wandering about lost trying to find the Greyhound bus station. Not a fun place to be and not something I would do again. Wonder if they would use the old Detroit Express name from the NASL and bring back Trevor Francis in some capacity?

[Keystone FC]

This may actually be something good for DC United as far as leverage to get a new SSS in DC. Speaking of DCU. They are now pushing Keep DC United to get the city to come to the table about a SSS on Buzzard Point:
http://www.keepdcunited.org/

As far as a Team in Detroit? I think the stadium could work but what they need is an OWNER with CASH to pay for the franchise fee. I'm thinking they want to lure a team to Detroit but the only teams who may consider this is DCU and maybe Crew and Revs.

[james]

Yeah but the drive from Detroit is 45min at best. Way too far to work.

ya im usually against teams playing outside of cities, but in Detroit the downtown area is filled with abondoned buildings and streets, even some of the skyscrapper buildings that make the skyline are abanden. Its bit of a ghost town, more people actually live out in the suburbs, in there case it might be better to play in the suburb. But that said is silverdome in the suburbs or is it like Dallas FC where they actually even further then the suburbs and more like out in a tiny town or out in the country? and is there enough support for a soccer mls team in Detroit no matter where they play?

[Detroit_TFC]

Location is irrelevant in Detroit's case. People go downtown for Lions, Tigers and Red Wings games. The Silverdome in the northern suburbs is very close to where the Pistons play. Everyone drives to everything.

As for the engineering of the stadium modifications, TSE has told us it can be done. I'm not an architect so I can only go by what they say. As for the league, TSE has met with them, but I don't know the details of whatever business case they made for getting a team. It's a little difficult to determine what satisfies the league in terms of financial backing. St Louis had a stadium deal but MLS didn't like the ownership group. The current owners of SKC who bought the team from the Hunts was a local investment group based primarily around one local company, and that was approved. I am pessimistic about the league approving a team in Detroit unless TSE steps forward with a larger investment group.

[TFCREDNWHITE]

If Detroit gets a team, we'll be able to do 5,000 to away games!! Sweet!

[Batman]

I'm all for a team in Motown... git er done!

[Flint]

I would totally be down for this. Anything for a close road trip.

[Keystone FC]

Location is irrelevant in Detroit's case. People go downtown for Lions, Tigers and Red Wings games. The Silverdome in the northern suburbs is very close to where the Pistons play. Everyone drives to everything.

As for the engineering of the stadium modifications, TSE has told us it can be done. I'm not an architect so I can only go by what they say. As for the league, TSE has met with them, but I don't know the details of whatever business case they made for getting a team. It's a little difficult to determine what satisfies the league in terms of financial backing. St Louis had a stadium deal but MLS didn't like the ownership group. The current owners of SKC who bought the team from the Hunts was a local investment group based primarily around one local company, and that was approved. I am pessimistic about the league approving a team in Detroit unless TSE steps forward with a larger investment group.

The investment group is the only thing I see keeping Detroit from getting a MLS club IF the stadium can be revamped.
I know Garber wants a 2nd NY club baaaaaadly but I think he's starting to grow impatient.

[maninb]

Garber has said they are capping MLS at 20 teams for the foreseeable future...Detroit has no chance, unless they grab an existing team...

[stugautz]

How much would this cost? Looks like they're trying to pull the Red Wings away from downtown knowing their lease is up. If this is the case, it's a good use of space and retrofitting an existing facility with good infrastructure surrounding it.

[CSO_BBTB]

Garber has said they are capping MLS at 20 teams for the foreseeable future...Detroit has no chance, unless they grab an existing team...

Not true. He has talked about going beyond 20 teams many times.

http://www.chron.com/sports/dynamo/a...345.php#page-2

Q: At what point did you feel comfortable saying that the MLS has arrived, and what does the league have to do to thrive? Arrive meaning they’re here to stay, not going anywhere and thrive meaning owners in every city and not multiple owners.

A: I think the new era of Major League Soccer started in 2005 with our expansion with Salt Lake and Los Angeles, continued in San Jose and then Toronto and then obviously thereafter. We began to really feel that we were managing a very stable and viable business when more and more investors started coming into the league. Since 2005, we’ve added 14 new owners. We’ve invested more than $1.2 billion in soccer stadiums since 2005. In 2007 we signed long-term television deals with ESPN, Fox and Univision that began paying us rights fees. In 2005 we signed a 10-year, $150 million deal with Adidas, and David Beckham joined the league in 2007. It was at that time that we really began to feel that this league is here to stay and our best years were ahead. Our goal is to be one of the top soccer leagues in the world. We believe we can achieve that goal. And I don’t believe American fans would accept anything less. To achieve that we need to have the best American players playing in Major League Soccer. We need to have some of the best international players in our game. We need to have 20 to 24 teams. All of our teams will be playing in stadiums they own and control and our league’s an important part of the U.S. sports landscape. I believe that’s an achievable goal.

http://www.dailysoccerfix.com/2011/9...treal-new-york

“I was surprised at some of the social, some of the media reaction to that,” Garber said. “We never said we were aggressively trying to go anywhere, including aggressively trying to pursue a 20th team. We’d like to have a 20thteam. We’d like that team to be in New York and we’re gonna work hard to try to make that happen. At some point after that, we’ll expand at the right time. We have no number in our mind as to how many teams that will be. At the right time, we’ll make those decisions.”

Garber said the league has had “recent discussions” with Las Vegas and Minneapolis, and just a little further back with Miami. They are in “almost daily” discussions with more than one group in New York. (Yes, the Cosmos is one of them … but reading between the lines, it sounds like the Cosmos group isn’t anywhere near ready for prime time.)

[__wowza]

^ fuck, just, please, no.

set up a second tier, don't even do promotion/relegation just yet if you dont want to. just govern a second tier and run it until you can get everything sorted. we're already working on an unbalanced schedule next season.

[prizby]

^ fuck, just, please, no.

set up a second tier, don't even do promotion/relegation just yet if you dont want to. just govern a second tier and run it until you can get everything sorted. we're already working on an unbalanced schedule next season.

24 teams split into two divsions = 12 teams a divsions

= 11 matches times 2 against divsions opponents (22 games)

= 12 matches 6 home/6 away against non division opponets (12 games)

= 34 games

= balanced schedule

[Yohan]

24 teams split into two divsions = 12 teams a divsions

= 11 matches times 2 against divsions opponents (22 games)

= 12 matches 6 home/6 away against non division opponets (12 games)

= 34 games

= balanced schedule

win.

[London]

garber wants it in his legacy to put a team in the south east to make it truely a north americain league.

he has stated it

i think we will see more than 20 teams

[__wowza]

24 teams split into two divsions = 12 teams a divsions

= 11 matches times 2 against divsions opponents (22 games)

= 12 matches 6 home/6 away against non division opponets (12 games)

= 34 games

= balanced schedule

that's a grand idea in theory, and i'm not saying that it wont work. i'm just saying that we'd need 5 more teams. it would be easier in my view to set up a "second division" akin to the NASL, and run that for a bit before bringing any new teams into the fold. i've always felt that existing teams should be brought up to the MLS, instead of being created from scratch. ya know?

i'm all for divisions, especially where the MLS spans such a vast area, but five is a pretty big number when you consider the fact that each would have to drop the expansion fee, as well as have plans to move into a SSS in the foreseeable future, it's just going to be hard.

[Yohan]

that's a grand idea in theory, and i'm not saying that it wont work. i'm just saying that we'd need 5 more teams. it would be easier in my view to set up a "second division" akin to the NASL, and run that for a bit before bringing any new teams into the fold. i've always felt that existing teams should be brought up to the MLS, instead of being created from scratch. ya know?

i'm all for divisions, especially where the MLS spans such a vast area, but five is a pretty big number when you consider the fact that each would have to drop the expansion fee, as well as have plans to move into a SSS in the foreseeable future, it's just going to be hard.

except any new owners would not want to start in 'second' division, esp when they are dropping millions of bucks in expansion fees

[__wowza]

except any new owners would not want to start in 'second' division, esp when they are dropping millions of bucks in expansion fees

i'd be slighted to agree with that, but you also have teams like san antonio, ottawa who're going to be joining the NASL in the next two years. quite frankly, there's a lot of teams who would need the MLS more than the MLS needs them.

if you're going to put them into the second division, sanctions can work to impact the expansion fee, and you can also use it as a selling point. instead of a risky investment you'd be able to say to owners "look, here's a team with a stadium (that may need renovations) and a fanbase. it'll work, just give us money!"

[Detroit_TFC]

I would think it makes more sense that MLS would have a second division league integrated with their business plans than one that is nominally competitive, or aspires to compete with MLS.

But nobody who's in the "club" (MLS) now is going to move to set up a system by which they might be out of the "club" even with parachute payments, etc like in the Prem. Also, no one at MLS is worried about division two competing with them. I can see a situation where a very poorly run MLS team is outgunned both on performance and financial level by a very well run NASL team but that would be the rare exception, not enough to force the issue.

So, although there are sporting reasons why pro/reg makes sense, hard to see how the business case for doing this would ever be persuasive. The best we can hope for is having a stable div 2 (whether binational or separate US and Cdn ones, I can see pluses and minuses for both approaches), that will fill in the geographical gaps so that professional footie is a reasonable day drive from any major population center.

[__wowza]

@Detroit_TFC; i made an argument here:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1820555
which sums up a list of questions i think would need to be overcome before the MLS makes any "major" adjustments.

i agree with prizby's take that the schedule can be balanced, and that divisions can play a larger role in the league, however it's a ways out from where we are now. i still remain firm in my belief that it would be a safer investment for the teams and for the league to look at places like Minnesota, New York and Vegas under the microscope of a second-tier team. that way you can answer questions that need to be answered before making the jump.

do they have a stable fanbase?
do they have concrete plans for a SSS?
do they have a committed ownership group?
etc.

in my view, it'd be a lot easier to have the MLS say "build a franchise, then we'll talk in a few years" than it would to say "wait on the sidelines and give us your theory". my fear is that the "major league" effect always runs the risk of wearing off. if you have a stable fanbase and a stable ownership group working towards top tier from the second tier, as opposed to from scratch, it would be a lot easier to make the move.

hosting a panathankos and ac milan game DOES NOT constitute guaranteed interest at a local club level.




i know i'm kind've the guy that started this, but can i vote to move off of the overall expansion talk and focus on the proposed detroit expansion? it seems more fitting to another thread, ya know?

[Alixir]

If Detroit gets a team, we'll be able to do 5,000 to away games!! Sweet!

by the time Detroit gets a team we better pray we can pull in 5000 for our own home games.

[Detroit_TFC]

Wowza, I agree about the int'l friendly game. We were disappointed they weren't able to do one this summer. They told us they tried but couldn't make it happen.

Personally, I want a Div 2 team and a WPS team to build a fan base over the next 5-10 years and revisit MLS at that point. But that will mean getting a 7500 seat stadium done, using the SD for those teams is a non-starter.

[CSO_BBTB]

...i still remain firm in my belief that it would be a safer investment for the teams and for the league to look at places like Minnesota, New York and Vegas under the microscope of a second-tier team...

Toronto would probably not have got in if that had been a key consideration given support for the Lynx was lukewarm to non-existent. MLS would probably have looked towards Rochester instead if second-tier support had been the key consideration back around 2005. Think the bottom line is MLS can work in any major population centre in North America with more than 1.5 million people in its wider metropolitan area. All it takes if a city like Detroit that is generally viewed as "major league" is involved is a viable stadium deal and somebody with very deep pockets to write the cheque for the expansion fee. All talk of a timetable or deadlines is basically just a way to generate newspaper stories about it. They didn't stop at 18 for long when Montreal missed out on the expansion from 16 to 18, for example.