More Canadian Content needed for TFC

[Cashcleaner]

Anyone who has been watching Montreal hold its own well against some notable CONCACAF competitors (like Mexico's Atlante) has probably been made aware of two facts.

The first fact is that Canadian players are making headwaves throughout the confederation and earning the notice of clubs all over the world as they advance into the Group Stage of the CONCACAF Champions League.

The second fact is that none of these players currently belong on the roster of Toronto FC, but rather with the Montreal Impact, the team that beat out both the Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto FC in the Nutrilite Canadian Championship to qualify for the CONCACAF tourney.

Montreal. The Impact. A team belonging to a league considered a tier well-below MLS in terms of talent and organisation. A team with a payroll only a fraction of ours here in Toronto and a single owner providing financial support, rather than an entertainment conglomerate with over a billion dollars in assets.

Now don't get me wrong, this isn't a post about me bitching about our ownership. Let's face it, MLSE took a chance at a soccer club here in Toronto and nobody could have predicted the financial success the club has been. What I do want to impress upon people is my belief that the more Canadian players we field for Toronto, the better off we could be.

Toronto has played with such little heart and has shown so little passion for much of the 2008 season. That's a fact that few here or on the other forums would argue. We're playing sluggish and reactionary soccer, with the exception of a few individuals:

Jim Brennan has been a solid captain from Day 1 and most definitely puts in the effort you would expect from a veteran footballer. I'm not going to go crazy here, because he's not an extraodinary defender/mid by any stretch - but in comparison to the rest of the league, he's definitely above-average. He's also Canadian - born a raised in Newmarket.

Greg Sutton has also been an anchor for the team since his arrival and many would agree his record for both the 07 and 08 seasons would be markedly improved if the club's defensive line wasn't so erratic and flat-out terribly overwhelmed at times. Unfortunately health issues have also had their effect on the keeper's performance and we may never get the full picture with regards to his potential within the club, but he has shown relative consistency dispite the various ups-and-downs. And yeah, he's a Canadian as well (Hamliton).

So there you have it. We have a team that has been somewhat embarassed by the other Canadian clubs, both of whom fielded several more Canadians over the course of the Nutrilite Canadian Championship than Toronto FC did and with one doing reasonably well in the Champions League compitition. It's also a team who's primary weakness has arguably been a distinct lack of initiative and passion.

So with all that noted and processed, what's a logical solution? More Canadian players, of course.

[Shakes McQueen]

Keeping in mind that Montreal never actually beat us in the Nutrilite Canadian Championship, all I wonder when I see Montreal's stellar results in the CCL, is how well we might have done against sorry ass sides like Real Esteli.

Though there are some decent Canadians I would like to have for the right price, there are also scads of great internationals. You just have to find them.

Personally, I'm fine with the number of Canadians on our side.

One of my fears this summer, is that Mo will capitulate to demand for DeRo (since he's Canadian and awesome), and waste the DP slot on him, when he isn't even close to worth using a free slot under the cap.

- Scott

[ensco]

Braz, Reda and Lombardo soured Mo on Canadians (excepting those like Brennan who are really British in terms of football pedigree!)

I agree with you 100%.

Maybe we need Canadian coaching too. Are there any Canadian coaches in NCAA that we should have on our radar screen?

[nascarguy]

too much Canadian Content is not good

[Fort York Redcoat]

As long as they keep giving Canadians trials I'm okay with a lower content than our Canadian competition. None of the Canadians given time on the pitch worked out. I'd like to see the club poaching Canadians from the USL teams that excel. It seems the natural progression.

[ccopela]

I was fairly disappointed that Diaz Kambere didn't look that good in his 1 game with TFC. I was really impressed with him at the U-23 tournament. I hope Mo gives him another chance to prove himself. (a trial)

[rocker]

i think any of montreal's canadians would not stand out on TFC.. but if you put them all together for a number of years, with a good coach, they can become a good "team" (that's the montreal formula). this is why just cherrypicking a canadian or two from that league will rarely work .... those USL guys need the team concept to look good individually. TFC needs to slow down with the roster changes, get this core playing together more and more, and then drop in a DP to push it further.

[Fort York Redcoat]

i think any of montreal's canadians would not stand out on TFC.. but if you put them all together for a number of years, with a good coach, they can become a good "team" (that's the montreal formula). this is why just cherrypicking a canadian or two from that league will rarely work .... those USL guys need the team concept to look good individually. TFC needs to slow down with the roster changes, get this core playing together more and more, and then drop in a DP to push it further.

Agreed. The "poaching" scenario is one for the future. I don't know who their standout is but he like most players is likely to want a shot at more money and more exposure. Yes more exposure than the Champions League (I'm sorry to say)

[trane]

I agree, with Cashcleaner, because ultimatley I think we have to build our team from our academy system, which should mean more Canadians, then on top we can get American and International player to complement them, but if we want to the team in this league for a long time, we need to build from our academy.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

only prob with the academy system in theleague is that you can sign 1 player from your academy to your team and the rest are up for grabs to other teams.
Fucking backwards

[Damien]

It will happen in time... but again, you have to give it time. For now we need the international roster spots to fill the void.

Look how many decent players came from the Toronto Lynx system... hopefully ours should prove even more valuable.

The number of registered soccer players per capita in the Toronto area is probably one of the highest (if not the highest) inside Canada and the USA. Am I wrong?

[reggie]

J smith and otto velez,i think there are better players around in our local leagues...

[Oldtimer]

i think any of montreal's canadians would not stand out on TFC.. but if you put them all together for a number of years, with a good coach, they can become a good "team" (that's the montreal formula). this is why just cherrypicking a canadian or two from that league will rarely work .... those USL guys need the team concept to look good individually. TFC needs to slow down with the roster changes, get this core playing together more and more, and then drop in a DP to push it further.

BINGO!

The key to MTL is that the play a system. They only have a few guys who could make it in MLS.

Toronto needs to have players familiar with each other before any system will work. The problem is that we still need to upgrade our roster (particularly in defense) so it will be a hard task. Getting it done BEFORE the pre-season will be key.

[Azerban]

only prob with the academy system in theleague is that you can sign 1 player from your academy to your team and the rest are up for grabs to other teams.
Fucking backwards

This is actually a positive if you stop and think about it. Unless we produce more than 1 extraordinary talent in a year no one is going to bother trying to poach one of our players because they'd be considered internationals, and the doors to how many academies (don't remember how many haven't set them up yet) get opened to us to look though? Getting an American to play for us is far less painful than an American team signing a Canadian.

Not that I've ever heard of this rule before, but if it's like you describe it can't be terrible.

[Roogsy]

BINGO!

The key to MTL is that the play a system. They only have a few guys who could make it in MLS.

Toronto needs to have players familiar with each other before any system will work. The problem is that we still need to upgrade our roster (particularly in defense) so it will be a hard task. Getting it done BEFORE the pre-season will be key.

I totally agree. Canadian or not, stability is the key. I wasn't a big fan of starting off the season with the team still in flux, and I am certainily hoping it doesn't happen again for 09.

[trane]

I agree with most that is said here. I am not sure that the fact that we can only sign one of our academy players per year, is a positive. However, the point is that what I like, and I think most peopel like about Montreal is that they have a "team" that plays a specofoc system, and they have players taht fir into that system. Sure you can add a 'star' or two but what realy counts is that you have a solid team and system before you go out and sign these more tallented players. A collections of player , no matter how individualy talented they are, will not produce a winning team if they do not fit the system and each others style of play.

[ccopela]

This is actually a positive if you stop and think about it. Unless we produce more than 1 extraordinary talent in a year no one is going to bother trying to poach one of our players because they'd be considered internationals, and the doors to how many academies (don't remember how many haven't set them up yet) get opened to us to look though? Getting an American to play for us is far less painful than an American team signing a Canadian.

Not that I've ever heard of this rule before, but if it's like you describe it can't be terrible.

The rule is that we're only allowed to sign 1 academy player per year to a DEVELOPMENTAL contract. We can offer them a Generation adidas contract but then that means we're not allowed to sign another academy player for 3 years. New York has this problem right now. They offered a dev. contract to one of their players and he turned it down so he could get a scholarship. Another guy in the New York academy has been linked with Europe and could go there for more money eventually or university as well. Right now University is a better option for academy players across the league then signing dev. contracts.

The Academy system needs to be reworked because there is no incentive on teams to actually invest in their academies if they can't easily bring players into their team. It's an incredibly stupid system as it stands now.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This is actually a positive if you stop and think about it. Unless we produce more than 1 extraordinary talent in a year no one is going to bother trying to poach one of our players because they'd be considered internationals, and the doors to how many academies (don't remember how many haven't set them up yet) get opened to us to look though? Getting an American to play for us is far less painful than an American team signing a Canadian.

Not that I've ever heard of this rule before, but if it's like you describe it can't be terrible.

I understand what you are saying but my issue with it is that we should be able to sign as many players as we want from our academy THAN let the other teams sign them. Inevitably there will be years when there are 2 or 3 players that are worth an international spot and we can only sign one.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The rule is that we're only allowed to sign 1 academy player per year to a DEVELOPMENTAL contract. We can offer them a Generation adidas contract but then that means we're not allowed to sign another academy player for 3 years. New York has this problem right now. They offered a dev. contract to one of their players and he turned it down so he could get a scholarship. Another guy in the New York academy has been linked with Europe and could go there for more money eventually or university as well. Right now University is a better option for academy players across the league then signing dev. contracts.

The Academy system needs to be reworked because there is no incentive on teams to actually invest in their academies if they can't easily bring players into their team. It's an incredibly stupid system as it stands now.

Thank you for the clarification.
Its horseshit (not what youre saying but the system, HA)

[Blazer]

[Zidane10]

We need DeRo adn maybe Staltieri, but beyond that, more Canadian players wouldn't really help us, simplu because players from overseas are generally better.
However, if we got DeRo, we could have a killer midfield:

Johann Smith---DeRosario---Guevara---Ricketts

That would decimate the league!

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I think TFC will be able to build a solid team of Canadians, but as others have noted, it will take time. Montreal has done well with its roster of bargain-priced Canadians, but that kind of success can't be purchased overnight.

In the short term, our international slots will be important. Until our academy bears fruit, we will have to rely on economical foreign players and the draft in order to fill our roster, and neither of these sources is deep in Canadian talent.

Once some of our academy players mature, it will be time for TFC to transition into more of a domestic team. International signings will always be important fixtures in our club, but in the long term they should be used to complement the team, not build it from scratch.

[nascarguy]

We need DeRo adn maybe Staltieri, but beyond that, more Canadian players wouldn't really help us, simplu because players from overseas are generally better.
However, if we got DeRo, we could have a killer midfield:

Johann Smith---DeRosario---Guevara---Ricketts

That would decimate the league!

Marvell Wynne---Ricketts---Guevara---DeRosario

i ask wynne after the game how did he like being a midfielder he said he did not like it at all

[Beach_Red]

BINGO!

The key to MTL is that the play a system. They only have a few guys who could make it in MLS.

Toronto needs to have players familiar with each other before any system will work. The problem is that we still need to upgrade our roster (particularly in defense) so it will be a hard task. Getting it done BEFORE the pre-season will be key.

Oh come on, are you saying you'd be happy if the season started and then guys like Ricketts, Guevara - even Robert (looked good at the time) - became available but TFC didn't go after them because they wanted the already signed players to "develop as a team?"

If every other team in the league continued to upgrade during transfer windows and this team did nothing this board would set my computer on fire.

The big problem is that BEFORE our season doesn't line up with the rest of the world and never will. We'll just need to adapt to that.

[Cashcleaner]

Gotta say I'm a bit surprised. I was actually expecting completely different responses than you guys have given me. With luck, the academy program will indeed churn out some quality players for Toronto so it's not like we aren't heading in the right direction.

And yes, a DP slot would be wasted on De Rosario. I think he'd be a great addition to the club and would fetch a hefty price, but I'd only ever be okay with signing him under the Beckham rule if we had no other quality players interested in making a move to Toronto and in that case the slot would be wasted anyways.

And yes, Montreal didn't beat us out of the the Canadian Championships per se, but they held us to a draw in Toronto and beat Vancouver twice while we could only rack up a draw and a loss to the Whitecaps. No matter how you say it, though, they were the best Canadian club at the time and have been doing well for themselves in CONCACAF.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Id love to see more Canadian content but as of right now with current rules (and we are talking all encompassing rules including salary cap, transfers and academy) its just not going to happen

[BakaGaijin]

The rule is that we're only allowed to sign 1 academy player per year to a DEVELOPMENTAL contract. We can offer them a Generation adidas contract but then that means we're not allowed to sign another academy player for 3 years. New York has this problem right now. They offered a dev. contract to one of their players and he turned it down so he could get a scholarship. Another guy in the New York academy has been linked with Europe and could go there for more money eventually or university as well. Right now University is a better option for academy players across the league then signing dev. contracts.

The Academy system needs to be reworked because there is no incentive on teams to actually invest in their academies if they can't easily bring players into their team. It's an incredibly stupid system as it stands now.

The system definately needs to be re-worked. However, I think it was set up this way to prevent one team from setting up an academy and poaching all the best players in the U.S. This issue would have to be addressed in any re-working of the academy structure.

[greatwhitenorf]

Up the Canadian content? How about TFC lumber jackets at the merchandise stands? How about IPA in plastic stubbies at the beer stands? How about 'Seagull Surprise' or 'Pickerel-On-A-Stick' on the snack bar menus? Eh?

Paul Stalteri won't play here because of the turf. ANY decently talented Canadian who has a choice of playing on grass in Europe or elsewhere in MLS or playing on turf in Toronto, will opt for grass.

We - or even the smugly reassuring club ticket reps - can talk till all tomorrow's cows come home about bringing in Canadian Galacticos or DP Planet-Smashing Superstars or a even a squad of Daleks to upgrade our roster.

Say it any way you want, but here's the simple fact:

Until there is grass, the team will be dump.

The team will be dump until there is grass.

(Yoda voice)Dump the team will be, until grass there is.

[VPjr]

Here's the reality....Montreal is a better TEAM that TFC and it appears they are being coached by a better coach than TFC. Limniatis might have his detractors (I've been told he's a prick) but he's found a way to improve the club in a very short time and in a very dramatic way. TFC is a group of individuals who might like each other but don't know how to play together. Why? Who really knows. In leagues like USL or MLS, where almost all the teams are mediocre (at best) based on Euro or South American standards, teams that play as a TEAM will win and disjointed squads like TFC will lose.

It amazes me how much people on the forums overestimate the quality of MLS players. I will agree that the best 50-100 players in MLS are better than almost any player in USL. After that, its debateable if there is any gap in quality. I'd argue with anyone that from roster spot 9-28, USL1 teams, in general, have better quality at those spots. Depth wins championships. It's no wonder MLS teams are flopping in CCC play (its not because they suck but because the USL teams are much deeper and have better quality players on the bench and in the reserves than virtually any MLS team).

Sandro Grande of the Impact is the best Canadian playing in Canada at the moment. He's better than Brennan, by a wide margin (in my opinion) and he should be brought into the CMNT to replace Imhof. He's exactly the kind of player who TFC should be bringing into the program. He's experienced, smart, talented, etc... If not for his history of injury problems, he would be back in Italy playing at a relatively high level but Montreal took a shot when he was out of a contract and it's paid off huge for them. He's a key ingredient to their success right now.

There is at least one other Canadian on Montreal's roster than I'd like to see with TFC and that's Felix Brillant. Some here are enamoured with a guy like Johann Smith but the reality is that Felix Brillant is pretty much the same type of player (a little bit smaller but full of pace and quite talented). They both have upside but I've actually seen Felix do a bunch of good things for the Impact in recent weeks (whereas Smith looks like a fast, flashy player who appears to have no clue how to actually play soccer). Smith is the equivalent of a basketball player who can dunk all day but doesn't know how to shoot, dribble or pass. He's an athlete who plays soccer, not a soccer player, IMO.

Right now, Braz would look like a good depth player for TFC too but I won't push my luck there. I know how much some people love Velez and James.

[VPjr]

One of my fears this summer, is that Mo will capitulate to demand for DeRo (since he's Canadian and awesome), and waste the DP slot on him, when he isn't even close to worth using a free slot under the cap.

- Scott

Although I never (or almost never agree) with you on almost anything, I do somewhat agree with you on this. If they can get DeRo on a regular deal, great. I'd like him playing for TFC. In MLS, he's a proven winner and brings a quality that TFC lacks.

However, if they break the bank to bring DeRo in on a DP deal, I'll quit the team altogether and go support the local U14 side because then I know that Mo is certifiable.

You want to pay $1million + for a Canadian, you do whatever it takes to get Radzinski here. Those who don't understand the game will laugh but he's the Canadian equivalent of Juan Pablo Angel. He'll come in and make an immediate impact on the score sheet, that's for sure. He's past his prime but so is Schellotto and that's not stopping him from winning league MVP. MLS is not that good of a league. Radz would be a star in MLS.