Kicking out at hooliganism

[Bluenose13]

Kicking out at hooliganism

BMO Field's recent post-game fan violence raises concerns


Inside the stadium they were throwing beers, while outside they were throwing fists.
Questions are now being raised about the security at BMO Field and the antics of some of Toronto FC's notoriously rowdy fans after a visiting group of Columbus Crew supporters were led by security guards straight into a pack of brawler TFC fans, according to Crew and TFC fans who were there.
Instead of handshakes and hellos, the two groups traded insults, punches and kicks after the 1-1 draw at last Saturday's Major League Soccer match.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/toron...29416-sun.html

[CoachGT]

I'm still somewhat amazed at the perception of hooliganism in football here in North America.

After years involved with hockey and other sports, the thing I don't get is why this concept is directed specifically at soccer. Passionate fans do not necessarily equal hooliganism. Fighting in the stands at hockey games, even minor league games, has been very well documented over the years. This year, there were incidents at Jays games, as there have been many times over the years, but this year got a little more press. Incidents in Montreal after a hockey game. I seem to recall a documentary where the Boston Bruins gave an estimate of damage to the Boston Garden that was reasonably accurate, with different numbers depending upon when the Bruins won or lost. Basketball has had incidents as well. Go to a high school football (pointy-ball) game and see if anything breaks out between the fans of the two schools - probably taunting and yelling, and perhaps a little scuffle. This is nothing new in North America, but because of the reputation of hooliganism in football elsewhere in the world, people are looking for it here.

You'd be hard pressed in olden days (40s through the 70s) to put a group of Montreal Canadiens supporters into a Leaf section at MLG, or the reverse at the Forum. You knew if would end up in a fight because passions run high. That will happen at any sporting event, not just football.

The people I know at Red patch, U Sector, TRN and NEE are generally good people - I'm quite happy to be associated with them. But the actions of a handful of individuals, usually after a few pints, spoil it for many others. I've been on several road trips this year and plan on many more going forward. The experiences have been good. You still have to use a little common sense at times, know when to stay away from possible trouble, and every now and again somebody goes over the top, but things have been very good.

It would be nice for the press to put this into context against other sports.

Just because I'm a passionate fan doesn't mean I'm a hooligan.

[rocker]

last night in the Saskatchewan CFL game shitloads of fans were tossing beers and other stuff at the opposition when a ref's call went against them.

[sulfur]

That's expected in Throwball though. :P

[Detroit_TFC]

The thread running through accounts of various incidents this year has been the poor/incorrect actions of the stadium security. The league and the individual teams need to get their head out of their ass and stop pretending MLS is at the same level it was ten years ago.

[Shaughno]

That's expected in Throwball though. :P

Seriously though that's the point. It happens elsewhere, some instances much worse, yet still we're being singled out and why?

I think it's a major public perception, in the US and Canada, that football's fans are bad, drunk hooligans. They are the only people who watch and or care about soccer. Good luck changing that though. It's a relatively new sport to the general public and it's considered foreign at the same time. It seems to stand true that the sports fans in the US don't take kindly to new things or changes for the most part. Until the USMNT starts enjoying some form of success which in turn boosts the recognition of both the team and the sport, I don't think you'll see any change in how the game and it's fans are percieved.

That's what I see anyway.

[Shaughno]

The thread running through accounts of various incidents this year has been the poor/incorrect actions of the stadium security. The league and the individual teams need to get their head out of their ass and stop pretending MLS is at the same level it was ten years ago.

I agree wholeheartedly. Some of their actions have been quite scary to think how much worse some situations could have escalated to. They need proper training on how to deal with situations properly and not just 'tossing' random people out. It has been proved around Europe that you can keep a lid on it for the most part, as long as you put the effort into maintaining that safety then you limit any problems in the first place.

Things like separating fans and escorting fans in/out at appropriate times is the most basic of their jobs. If they can't handle those right, how can they be trusted for when shit actually does happen... and given how shit they've been lately, who's to say it won't be allowed to get to that level?

Remove the contact between those fans and you remove the situation completely, at least on your property which is all they care about.

[Parkdale]

I think that the sport gets a bad wrap because in other parts of the world, it's organized violence and run like a gang. People who get in fights after hockey games, for the most part, didn't wake up that morning expecting to be in a physical confrontation - it just escalates, usually after having too many beers. Proper 'hooligans' walk into the game knowing that there is more than just the outcome of the match at stake.

personally.... It would be bad enough to have your team loose. I wouldn't want a black eye to tack on to the weekend.

[v00d00daddy]

Let me get this straight. You guys read that article and the first reaction you have is:

"Why are the picking on us? We're not the only people who do it"

Seriously? You guys are going to be the reason that nets go up and that the security are gonna be EVEN BIGGER dicks from now on.

The actual behaviour (throwing beers, and waiting for rival fans outside the gate) is really stupid. The only thing more stupid is not publically condeming it.

RPB and every other supporters group should be taking an extra hard stance against this shit. You know why? Because if they don't, they're gonna be the ones blamed for it. Right or wrong, that's what's gonna happen. I can't believe you guys don't see that.

And by extra hard stance I mean this:

I am positive that out of the 400+ RPB's and however many Usector people were in the southeast corner on Saturday, there must have been a few who saw the people throwing shit. I'll even go one step futher and say that there are probably people on this board who threw shit, or know people who did. Step up and do the right thing. You know what it is. Show that you REALLY won't tolerate this stuff.

[flatpicker]

^ didn't you read the article???

it had direct quotes from our RPB prez, Jack, condemning the stupidity of those who threw beers.

Observers on all sides of the issue acknowledge the majority of Toronto FC fans are well-behaved and that the game atmosphere is invariably safe.
Still, the fans don't want objects tossed on the field or fights erupting inside or outside the stadium, DePoe said.
"It's pretty ridiculous to go the game, get drunk, and throw things at the players on the field," DePoe said.
"That's not why we go to the game. We go there to support our team. Yes, we're loud, yes, we're rowdy, yes, we swear. We're not choirboys out there. But when you do something like that, it can hurt your team. It's not cool to throw beer on the field.
"And ... why would you throw a $13 beer at somebody anyway?"

[ricciboy]

wasnt it U sector fans who started the fight outside

[v00d00daddy]

^ didn't you read the article???

it had direct quotes from our RPB prez, Jack, condemning the stupidity of those who threw beers.

I read it. Why isn't Jack saying, people who throw stuff should be banned. Why isn't he saying that RPB had nothing to do with the behaviour that was shown last weekend?

His comments were generic and predictable. I'm saying that a guy like Jack is in a very good position to use this time to TOTALLY CONDEMN the actions.

It's not good enough for him to say:
"And ... why would you throw a $13 beer at somebody anyway?"

It kinda makes light of the subject, no?

[The Kingpin]

SPECTACULAR!! I always wanted to be a Hooligan, I missed out on the mid-80's violence in England so now when I return home I can be part of a Toronto Firm. Marc is a complete prat and has not been able to control anything since day one. I remember getting manhandled by security during the first game ever and they were after someone else. We warned them about security over and over last year and nothing happened. Marc has failed the stadium and the fans of this team. And for him to show his ignorance in this article is perfection, I hope his bosses are taking notice. He has zero control of the people working for him.

And this is the best!: The post-game fracas has Toronto Police vowing to crack down on "European-style soccer hooliganism" before it can gain a foothold here. So, the metro police are on top of things again. Good job metro, dropping the ball since 1834.

[The Kingpin]

I read it. Why isn't Jack saying, people who throw stuff should be banned. Why isn't he saying that RPB had nothing to do with the behaviour that was shown last weekend?

His comments were generic and predictable. I'm saying that a guy like Jack is in a very good position to use this time to TOTALLY CONDEMN the actions.

It's not good enough for him to say:
"And ... why would you throw a $13 beer at somebody anyway?"

It kinda makes light of the subject, no?

RPB's were involved in the incident from all accounts. This has been handled as far as I understand. Kick back, this is a poorly written and researched article. It will woft away like a gaseous state in the wind.

[Rudi]

wasnt it U sector fans who started the fight outside

No.

Don't believe everything you see on YouTube.

[JDG]

I read it. Why isn't Jack saying, people who throw stuff should be banned. Why isn't he saying that RPB had nothing to do with the behaviour that was shown last weekend?

His comments were generic and predictable. I'm saying that a guy like Jack is in a very good position to use this time to TOTALLY CONDEMN the actions.

It's not good enough for him to say:
"And ... why would you throw a $13 beer at somebody anyway?"

It kinda makes light of the subject, no?

The matter has been seriously discussed by our Leadership, and Members.

We have identified one of the Beer-throwers, and he has been dealt with.

The Red Patch Boys have publicly and privately condemned this type of activity.

You don't read what goes on in the Members area, so you can't know what we are or aren't doing, so when you say that we are doing nothing, you are talking about something of which you have no knowledge.

The actions that you call for have been discussed, but since you are not privy to those discussion, you don't yet know what the outcome was.

[Jack]

I read it. Why isn't Jack saying, people who throw stuff should be banned. Why isn't he saying that RPB had nothing to do with the behaviour that was shown last weekend?

His comments were generic and predictable. I'm saying that a guy like Jack is in a very good position to use this time to TOTALLY CONDEMN the actions.

It's not good enough for him to say:
"And ... why would you throw a $13 beer at somebody anyway?"

It kinda makes light of the subject, no?

Because out of the 20 minute conversation I had on the phone with the reporter, those are the statements he decided to quote.

I said a lot of things that didn't make it into the article. That happens all the time.

[CoachGT]

Let me get this straight. You guys read that article and the first reaction you have is:

"Why are the picking on us? We're not the only people who do it"

That wasn't the point of my comment above. It happens in hockey, it happens in basketball, it happens in all sports, not just football. Because it has been a problem in football elsewhere, it is automatically assumed to be here. That's wrong.

I've posted before and still maintain the belief that the supporters groups are opposed to anything impairing a game. No batteries thrown, no corn cobs, nothing! No running onto the pitch, no wasting beer (unless it is a goal celebration - our goal!). Even the streamers have cut down, and I don't think that there is any concern over injury from streamers! Enough has been said about this in other threads throughout the year. I didn't think it had to be said again! I don't believe that any of the supporters groups condone this stuff - if they do then there is a problem! But from what I've seen this year any incident has been a result of a few prats who have probably had too much to drink rather than the actions of true supporters.

I know that some of the RPB guys actively worked to diffuse the things that happened last weekend, and I would suspect that people from the other supporters groups did, too.

If this is news, then it should be reported whenever it happens - in hockey rinks, at baseball diamonds, at high school pointy ball games, hell, probably even at bingo halls. You can't tell me this sort of thing doesn't happen all of the time at US college sports games! But it shouldn't be a story just because it happens at a soccer game.

[eustacchio]

those are the statements he decided to quote.

I said a lot of things that didn't make it into the article. That happens all the time.

I was just going to say the same thing.

It's really easy to fit quotes to the story you want to write.

also...note the ellipsis

[v00d00daddy]

Because out of the 20 minute conversation I had on the phone with the reporter, those are the statements he decided to quote.

I said a lot of things that didn't make it into the article. That happens all the time.

I thought that might have been the case. Fair enough.

[v00d00daddy]

The matter has been seriously discussed by our Leadership, and Members.

We have identified one of the Beer-throwers, and he has been dealt with.

The Red Patch Boys have publicly and privately condemned this type of activity.

You don't read what goes on in the Members area, so you can't know what we are or aren't doing, so when you say that we are doing nothing, you are talking about something of which you have no knowledge.

The actions that you call for have been discussed, but since you are not privy to those discussion, you don't yet know what the outcome was.

It's good that you guys are taking care of things in house. I never said you were doing nothing. I just think there needs to be a more vocal condemnation of the event of last weekend. Instead, you guys decide to talk about the unfair treatement that soccer gets in the media.

Get your priorites straight. Stop complaining about the medias portrayal of soccer and its supporters. It is not the topic at hand right now. There are much more important things than that.

Nobody wants to watch the game from the south stand through a net.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

wasnt it U sector fans who started the fight outside

What's a U Sector fan?

[Angelo1405]

any help on starting the video ? the commercial ends and it just says "loading"...

[eustacchio]

any help on starting the video ? the commercial ends and it just says "loading"...

Try the "low" video

[Angelo1405]

Try the "low" video

not working....thanks anyway.

[J .]

Jack said the right things. Throwing beer onto the field is not a wise thing to do. It is a waste of money and is silly stupid business. What more vocal condemnation do some people want? The President said the right stuff. It is wrong but we are not choirboys either. The line should be drawn on throwing stuff onto the field that could hurt the players.

The best thing to do and it works for me, is having good friends there to simmer you down. There really is no need to fight and if anyone knows, I have given up on trying to break fights up, so if you do get into one, don't look to me to help.

Ejection is a fine solution, but more importantly a good scolding from your fellow supporters works better. People shouldn't be punished forever for being stupid. Ive seen people throw beers onto the field in a fit of passion and later regret it, doesn't make them any less a dedicated supporter, regardless of what people here think.

If you have beer to throw onto the field, you probably don't need to have another. Friends don't let friends drink and throw beer onto the field.

[Shakes McQueen]

This year, there were incidents at Jays games, as there have been many times over the years, but this year got a little more press.

Oh man, you guys have no idea.

I went to the Jays home opener this year (against the Red Sox), and there was:

- Four fist fights around our area of the stadium alone
- Two streakers
- Three girls in our area flashed the crowd
- They gave everyone towels before the game, and pretty much every single one of them got thrown on the field - to the point where they had to stop the game to pick them all up around the 7th inning.

Watched the highlights, and there was no mention of anything that happened. Same with the news media that week.

Soccer fans have a bad rap for being hooligans, because of the crazy imagery people see of football riots overseas - flares, smoke bombs, riot police, huge fist fights, etc.

By contrast, if 2-3 people get arrested after a TFC match, it's a topic of interest here for weeks.

- Scott

[The Kingpin]

Oh man, you guys have no idea.

I went to the Jays home opener this year (against the Red Sox), and there was:

- Four fist fights around our area of the stadium alone
- Two streakers
- Three girls in our area flashed the crowd
- They gave everyone towels before the game, and pretty much every single one of them got thrown on the field - to the point where they had to stop the game to pick them all up around the 7th inning.

Watched the highlights, and there was no mention of anything that happened. Same with the news media that week.

Soccer fans have a bad rap for being hooligans, because of the crazy imagery people see of football riots overseas - flares, smoke bombs, riot police, huge fist fights, etc.

By contrast, if 2-3 people get arrested after a TFC match, it's a topic of interest here for weeks.

- Scott

We are the curators of our own demise. Every incident is played out on Red Patch forms of communication for all to see. Jack can attempt to placate the potential situation all he wants but not everyone is under control. There is a desire for this type of violence to happen as it is the new application that media elements use to propose why TFC will be a failure. The pundit crew have failed miserably in their attempt to predict the overall failure, so they are grasping at straws and we hand them the long one every time. Our ability to manage our own PR is limited as these forums serve as the voice and unfortunately our moderators are either under-equipped or over worked. Certain posters are allowed to post inflammatory messaging under the guise of "free speech", well this is not a "free speech" element, it is a privileged members group and should be treated that way. If you are a complete prat, say goodbye. Just some thoughts anyway.

[Boris]

Because out of the 20 minute conversation I had on the phone with the reporter, those are the statements he decided to quote.

I said a lot of things that didn't make it into the article. That happens all the time.

same here jack. What gets me is that the article was started the same day we raised over $8,000 for charity but you never saw any of that make the print. I should have known when i was asked about the columbus bus being there...He tried so hard swaying things in his favour.

[Parkdale]

anyone pick up the print copy of the Sun yesterday?

There's a great shot of flush, and a sidebar of my video with the mayor.
The article with it is faulting David Miller for saying 'I built the stadium'.
The sun always tends to focus on the negative, which I guess happens
when you're entire point of being is to sell used cars and follow the Leafs.

On the upside, they were the only paper to ask before using my video.