Coaching

[sampace]

It is time to replace Carver with Holger Osieck. He did an incredible job with Team Canada leading them to a Gold Cup Victory and a subsequent 3rd place win in the Gold Cup as well. Holger is an excellent tactician, and he would be a step up on Carver. Although Carver does a decent job in getting the players to hustle (minus Ruiz), Holger is even better. It is Holger's way or the highway, that is the kind of managing these guys need right now.

[rocktml]

I don't think so......

In Carver I STILL trust.........

[sampace]

You can trust Carter all you want, but I still believe in Holgers Heros. Just ask Craig Forest and Jason Devos, as they were both there when Holger led a dysfunctional Canada to a Gold Cup Championship, the best championship Canada has ever won in men's soccer. Holger is a hero, and would turn this flag ship around in short order. BELIEVE IN HOLGER!

[rocker]

It is time to replace Carver with Holger Osieck. He did an incredible job with Team Canada leading them to a Gold Cup Victory and a subsequent 3rd place win in the Gold Cup as well. Holger is an excellent tactician, and he would be a step up on Carver. Although Carver does a decent job in getting the players to hustle (minus Ruiz), Holger is even better. It is Holger's way or the highway, that is the kind of managing these guys need right now.

i didn't know holger's agent was on the board!

why was holger dumped from his Japanese league team right after making it to Club World Cup?

[TFC Cityboy]

Give JC another season. The players want to work with him and the revolving door never benefits anyone.

[sampace]

Holger is similar to Mo Johnston in that he comes with a bit of a reputation, it is called winning! BELIEVE IN HOLGER!

[Chevy]

I'm a fan of Carver, but has anyone realized we have ONE win in our last SEVENTEEN matches?

[sampace]

The answer to this problem is Holger!

[Bluenose13]

Carver = The best thing to happen to TFC this year.

[Roogsy]

Give JC another season. The players want to work with him and the revolving door never benefits anyone.

I don't understand why people don't see this. Both points are extremely important reasons why JC needs another year to show us what he can do.

[sampace]

I am willing to give Carver one more year, but if he does not perform better it is time to start BELIEVING IN HOLGER! Get the banner ready. Build it and he will come. MLS CHAMPIONS 2010/2011 Toronto FC>

[Kickit09]

the problem is not the coach it's the players.

[werewolf]

i didn't know holger's agent was on the board!

why was holger dumped from his Japanese league team right after making it to Club World Cup?

I would be interested to know as well, as opposed to just "believing" in him.

[Pachuco]

Carver = The best thing to happen to TFC this year.

hahaha. Please, give me a few good reasons or prove to me that he is. He's done no better then Mo with guess what? half the team. That's right, he doesn't have Braz, or Reda, or Welsh, No excuses about international absences this year because we had a ton of injuries last year, particularly to our only good players.

I just want to know why some people are so hung up on Carver. Yes he has a great personality, but personalities don't win games. We are in last place this year once again. So someone, please give me an intelligent answer as to why Carver is the best thing that happened to TFC?

BTW - Before you go calling me a Carver hater, I don't mind giving him another year. However, the last thing I would say about Carver is that he's the greatest thing that ever happened to this team when he hasn't proven shit. That title my friends, I give to the supporters.

[reggie]

any other place in the world carver would be gone,2 wins in 17 games,brutal on the road,last minute losses, putting players under the bus,come on guys,sure he his a nice guy,but i want some wins and some better futbol...
i think we need cunny back!!!!!

[Axeman]

It is time to replace Carver with Holger Osieck. He did an incredible job with Team Canada leading them to a Gold Cup Victory and a subsequent 3rd place win in the Gold Cup as well. Holger is an excellent tactician, and he would be a step up on Carver. Although Carver does a decent job in getting the players to hustle (minus Ruiz), Holger is even better. It is Holger's way or the highway, that is the kind of managing these guys need right now.

"In Carver we trust", but if it had to be anyone, which I think now is not the time, Holger would be the only guy I'd accept with open arms.

Although I still don't understand how anyone thinks we should replace the guy who came here in January and hasn't had a preseason with the complete team.

[CretanBull]

Carver = The best thing to happen to TFC this year.

Yup...

[Cashcleaner]

Carver needs to finish up 2008 and have a at least a quarter of the season in the bag in 2009 before we go about picking apart his decisions in detail. Once he is in a position to tool around with the roster more (like in the off-season) then we'll get a better idea as to what he brings to the club.

Carver gets my vote as well for being the best thing to happen this year.

[sweetlemon69]

I don't think so......

In Carver I STILL trust.........

this.

[mclaren]

I like Carver a lot as a person but I don't see how anyone can say he's the best thing to happen to TFC this year. You judge a coach by his results and unfortunately our results have been very poor - that's the bottom line. You can make up any excuses you like, but the best coaches in the world don't make excuses, they get on with it. I'd give Carver another half season at best, but if results don't improve in that time, things will need to change.

[BuSaPuNk]

Let's not pull a TML here. Get rid of the coach after one year? Don't think so. He needs time for his style of coaching and playing to get around with the players. The players need to trust in the coach you can't build trust with a new coach every year. Also doesn't help that there is a carousel outside the locker room for the players.

Less player movement, more time for Carver to implement playing style/commitment/chemistry, dedication from all players..... that is what we need.

[Oldtimer]

Wow.
Carver didn't even get to pick most of his team. Give him some time, folks.

[Detroit_TFC]

any other place in the world carver would be gone,2 wins in 17 games,brutal on the road,last minute losses, putting players under the bus,come on guys,sure he his a nice guy,but i want some wins and some better futbol...
i think we need cunny back!!!!!

This is true in the Prem or other top flights. When MLS has the coaching talent pool as deep as the Prem, let's talk.

[CretanBull]

I like Carver a lot as a person but I don't see how anyone can say he's the best thing to happen to TFC this year. You judge a coach by his results and unfortunately our results have been very poor - that's the bottom line. You can make up any excuses you like, but the best coaches in the world don't make excuses, they get on with it. I'd give Carver another half season at best, but if results don't improve in
that time, things will need to change.

Results absolutely, but results isn't exactly W-L-D record is it? This league is built on parity probably like no other league in the world. The difference between the top teams and the bottom teams isn't that much and any team can win a game vs. anyone on any give day. We're a 2nd year team and we don't have the depth that other clubs have. When we lose a starter or two, or three to injury (or 8 to international call ups) it effects us more than it effects other teams. Other teams have established contacts (with USL teams for example), youth academies and organizational depth that we don't have. That's not Carver's fault - or even Mo's for that matter - its part of the growing pains of being a new franchise. If it's done properly with long term goals and stability in mind it will take time...it can't be rushed.

You can call it an excuse, but no other team in the league has faced the adversity that we've faced this season. We've dealt with injuries to key players, in key positions - remember when we had an untested 17 year old as our lone striker? We've had constant rumours about players comming and going, distractions about field turf and top players turning their backs on us, we've had Cunny acting as a distraction and locker-room cancer, we've been effected by international call ups like no other club. How can the club gel when game to game at least 2 or 3 of the starting XI have been different (not by choice) each game? Of the ones that have been able to play, how many of them are rookies or new to the league? Any idea how hard it is to play when only one or two of your team mates actually knows the opposition and what their tendencies are?

Carver does need to get results, but until he's able to put a consistant line-up of MLS quality players (no more games when the back line are meeting each other for the first time the day before the game) on the pitch game in and game out "results" can't be messured in terms of W-L-D. If you want to judge Carver, you have to keep in mind the situation that the club is in and the hand that he's been dealt. A result for Carver is improving Edu to the point where he gained the attention of Glasgow Rangers. A result for Carver is developing young guys like Jarod Smith, Julius James and Marvel Wynne to the point where they were able to play for their national sides. A result of Carver is scrapping out an unlikely win vs. Colorado. A result for Carver is seeing someon like Tyler Rosenlund emerge as a possible starter in the near future. A result for Carver is keeping all the players happy and focused on the game when we're surrounded by so many problems. Without question, he's been the best signing of the year for us. No one has made a bigger positive impact on our club than he has.

[Beach_Red]

It is Holger's way or the highway, that is the kind of managing these guys need right now.

Really? Given that every guy who gets let go quickly signs on somewhere else with some other team, what kind of a trheat is, "the highway?"

It's possible that style of coaching doesn't work any more....

[druid]

Carver gets my vote as well for being the best thing to happen this year.

Is that a measure of how bad this year has been or how good Carver is?

I think any manager/coach that is in a do or die game (TFC vs Impact), substitutes one defender for another in the 86th minute, and leaves his last sub unused to see us knocked out of the CL has earned at least two strikes if not all three.

Carver may come good but IMHO nothing has happened on the pitch to warrant any level of trust or confidence in him. We are second to last in the table, one point above LA, with four of our six remaining games on the road. LA have got three and three.

Can you even say you trust Carver to keep us from coming last in the league?

[JDG]

Carver has not had much time to adapt. Give it to him before you hang him out to dry. It's a new league with some funky quirks that make little sense. It's a small roster size, and a small salary cap. Let Carver get used to all of this & he will only get better.
Ourbiggest issue this year is the revolving door for the players. All of the coming and going to International dates, and new signings has meant that the locker room has never had a chance to stabalize.
Cunningham was poisonous. I think he was a big contributor to the players lack of enthusiasm. Too many times, I saw Robert, Guevera, and Ricketts visibly pissed when their hard work resulted in yet another flub by Cunny. If Mo had been able to move him earlier, we probably would have seen better results from our midfield. That's not Carver's fault in any way.

[trane]

I like Carver a lot as a person but I don't see how anyone can say he's the best thing to happen to TFC this year. You judge a coach by his results and unfortunately our results have been very poor - that's the bottom line. You can make up any excuses you like, but the best coaches in the world don't make excuses, they get on with it. I'd give Carver another half season at best, but if results don't improve in that time, things will need to change.

I agree with you. I have said for a while now, I like Carver, I like what he is trying to do. I hope he succeeds because I think it is the right path for long term success. I also do not think that we looked bad on Saturday. We let in one soft goal, and that cost us the three points. Our attack was not bad. However, we are still absolute shite on the road, and the result do not lie, whatever the reasons, the botton line is that 1 win in 17 games is simply not acceptable. Things will have to change sooner rather then later.

[Pachuco]

This is funny. No one that has said Carver is the best thing to happen to TFC can actually give an intelligent explanation of why. All I hear is excuses for this team being so shite, but when is someone going to step up and actually explain what he's done for this team?

The negative people have given you countless reasons why Carver has failed. So how about you give us some reasons or proof of him being the best thing that's happened to this team?

[rocker]

The negative people have given you countless reasons why Carver has failed.

Can you recap those countless reasons?

I just went up back through the comments in this thread and I don't see any reasons why Carver *specifically* has failed. The substitution argument is weak because the record shows that Carver regularly used many subs this year, much earlier than the 86th minute, sometimes even at the half. Substitution problems only matter if there's someone on the bench who Carver deems in better. In many games I wouldn't say it was a fact that there was much better talent on the bench. If someone says TFC is in last, so that's a reflection on Carver's ability as a coach, I find that an incomplete explanation. Gotta be more specific than that.

I can list a couple improvements:
1) much better goals against # than last year, which relates to.....
2) better organized team than last year
3) actually scoring first lately

But as my coach father once said, it's extremely difficult to separate the influence of the coach from the quality of the players. So I'm hesitant to say "let's get another coach" at this point. Last year we had one of the best coaches in the history of the MLS and American soccer (Gansler), who from reports was basically running the team, and yet we finished last.
Los Angeles had Mr Sexy Football and has the Great God Bruce Arena, and is last now.

Last year the injuries kicked our asses. This year international absences kicked our asses.

I'd like to see a team that settles down in the roster for awhile. Just play together. Rarely in Europe do the best coaches have to deal with so many injuries or absences constantly. Instead, when injuries happen or guys are gone for whatever reason, the front office ponies up millions for great foreigners. MLS doesn't allow that.