The city of Montreal is getting a web-load of hysterical grief from Canadian soccer fans in the wake of 2-1 loss to Honduras in World Cup qualifying on the shredded, disintegrating turf of Stade Saputo.
Almost all of it is unfair.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../WBsoccerblog/
:-)
Last edited by denime; 09-10-2008 at 12:47 PM.
This link doesn't seem to be working for me
Fixed it!
Ben that link still doesn't work!!
This link is for On Soccer and it works
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/soccerblog
Ben
The unspoken question is... will Quebeckers support any Canadian national team, in any sport, on which there are no prominent Quebecois?
I think not.
“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”
No, Ensco, I don't think that's it at all.
First of all, the words "Quebecker" and "Montrealer" are two very different things. We're only talking about 13,000 seats. I don't think we have to go all the way to Chicoutimi to fill them.
If Montreal soccer fans get motivated to do what Toronto fans did for the Jamaica game, there is a way to improve all this.
And if the CSA could get off its bureaucratic butts and find ways to make our finest players household names, that would sell a some tickets too.
I'm not opposed to visiting fans being in the stadium. I just want to see Canadian fans organized and motivated enough to beat them to most of the seats.
Ben's wrong. A lot of it is the Montreal fans fault. Even the Canadian fans that had nothing to do with the Vs or Supporters Groups in Toronto wore red and made noise.
Don't get me wrong, the CSA deserves the brunt of the criticism but let's not put lipstick on the pig.
it doesn't really give any reasons to why is was unfair, other then "i'm not convinced". And then follows with -
So its not supposed to be Montreal's fault....but then it follows with the problems that Montreal had versus Toronto. Whose fault is it then?What happened in Montreal, I think, is simple: the Honduran fans wanted it more.
When the tickets came available, the Canadian fans weren't organized, and Hondurans from a thousand miles around pounced. Who can blame them? I travelled hundreds of miles for this match, why shouldn't they?
It's a simple question of organization. Toronto fans had a plan, and the numbers to pull it off. Montreal had neither.
p.s. Apparently you didn't interact (non-violently) with the security and police much personally...
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Okay, I lived in Montreal for the first 30 years of my life and I wish you were right about support for a Canadian team with no prominent Quebecois on it, but I don't think so.Originally Posted by Ben Knight
Now, if the stadium was as far from downtown Montreal but to the west instead of the east - maybe. And it's still a big maybe.
Okay, I don't live in Montreal, so explain this to me.
Stade Saputo lies as far to the east of the main Metro interchange at Berri-UQUM as the old Montreal Forum lies to the west. How hard is it -- really -- to get there? McGill to the stadium seemed like nothing the other night.
Last edited by Ben Knight; 09-10-2008 at 02:49 PM.
one major issue is that here in Toronto we have plenty of supporters groups who were willing to finally put their money where their mouths are and bought up a shitload of tickets. What we saw here in Toronto, I think to a certain degree was done because of the local clubs.
As far as the montreal supporters groups go, im no expert but i am sure they do not match the numbers that we do in canada.
That, along with having no pre-sales and what not and the fact that the game appeared to us as a sell out all contributed to a lacklustre night.
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Lets get this straight guys...the problem with the stadium being over run by Hondurans, is not because of the City of Montreal, it was HOW the tickets were organized. Simple as that. If you open up tickets to everyone than anything can happen. Blame falls on the CSA, Quebec Soccer Federation, and Admission.
thats what i was getting at with the second half of my post. We had the luxury of presales and all that. Can you imagine what BMO would have been like if we all had to buy tickets on the same day......I bet the RPB alone would not have had 700 tickets
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yeah the 'maicans would have had alot more tickets!
Just give us grass....
Good piece Ben.
and everyone would have been calling for Toronto's head.
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The thing is, the cente of Montreal isn't The Main anymore, it's a lot farther west, the Decarie at least. The vast majority of people who live west of downtown, NDG, Montreal West and the whole west island never go east of downtown.
They used to go to baseball games at Olympic stadium and when they stopped going - for a lot of reasons, but the distance to travel to the stadium was one of the main ones because if you're on the west island first you have to get to the Metro - the team couldn't get enough support to stay in Montreal.
Chances are good that Saputo won't be able to get any west island support, either, and that's where most of the support for Canada would come from.
Did you see any Canadian flags east of downtown Montreal? Are there any at Saputo for Impact games?
I hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't think there will ever be much support for Canada at that stadium. It may be a factor with an MLS team as well, we'll see.
honestly, if distance has anything to do with no support....thats just a poor mans excuse...im sorry
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Great post, Beach Red.
Against all that, though -- it's only 13,000 tickets. If these players meant something to more Canadians, it couldn't be that hard to fill them.
Yes, you're right, properly marketed it should be easy to get 13,000 Canadian fans out to a game in Montreal - even in the east end.
I hope it may be changing, and every time I go back to Montreal (couple times a year) I convince myself it is, but there was a time through the '80's and into 90's that Montreal was a divided city. People sometimes say that politics is the national sport of Quebec, so imagine how crappy that would be day after day. Back then it felt like every little thing you did was a political statement of some kind.
So, it's not just how far people have to travel to the stadium, it's where they have to travel to.
What really needs to happen is for the national team to play half a dozen sold out games in Toronto with big, loud Canadian support. Then Montreal, being Montreal, will want in on it.
It's just too bad they couldn't play at Molson Stadium....
i dont want to get into the whole political real of things but in spain, the people from madrid would travel to catalan if it means supporting their team and in spain, politics is their national sport....
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How far would the people of Madrid travel for a hockey game with no Spanish players on the team?
That's essentially what we're up against here. I think over the next few years we're going to see big changes, but right now the Canadian national soccer team is a low priority - and in Quebec even more so.
Ensco's original point was how to sell tickets in Quebec for a team from Canada with no Quebecois stars. That might even be a tough sell for hockey.
I wish poilitics played no part of it, but it does. You can live in Quebec, even in lots of Montreal, and not even know you are part of Canada.
I just think if Montreal wants to host national team games they should have to earn that right.
not sure what you classify as stars but Bernier & Gerba are from Montreal.
the hockey comparison doesnt work....basketball would and you would still see a good number come out....but thats not the issue.
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No. What is the issue again?
Not enough Canadians came out to support the team in Montreal. There are lots of reasons for it, all true to a greater or lesser extent, and all have to be dealt with for future games.
Patriotism has always been a little, oh let's say, understated in Canada and public support for anything too Canadian is rarely seen in Quebec. This is nothing new and we shouldn't be surprised or upset about it.
What's happening now at BMO with TFC games is something new for Canada and I like it. I've been to many hockey games at the old Forum in Montreal, baseball games at the Big O and even CFL football games there and never once did I hear people singing the national anthem. I can't imagine a Montreal sports crowd holding up red scarves and singing Oh Canada.
But things are changing, so you never know. Many people never thought they'd see Canada play a 'home' game and we saw it in Toronto and we'll see it again.
Anything's possible.
thats the thing. Things are changing. We worked hard to get the pro Canada crowd in Toronto. Im not saying its going to be an easy task in montreal, and i know at first its mostly uphill, but it can and will happen.
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I'm would think that you can get a pro Canadian crowd over at Saputo Stadium for a Canada men's soccer match. The Canadian Soccer Association needs to do a better job at how they market an event like a World Cup qualifier, or in the way they distribute the tickets.
Did I just offer encouragement to the CSA? FUCK IT!!! Git me some dyn-ee-mite and blow dem up reel good!!!
Ben
I enjoy your work. This is an interesting discussion. I'd like to elaborate.
Like Beach Red, I was born in Montreal and live in Toronto. Agreed: "Montrealers" are not "Quebeckers", but they sure as heck aren't "Torontonians" either.
The main point you are making is that we only need 13,000 hardcore supporters, and as they exist in Toronto, they must exist in Montreal. I don't think so.
When the Canadian men's Olympic or world junior hockey teams are selected, the Montreal media (even the english media) are obsessed with "how many Quebeckers" made the team. I think the populace (both French and a good chunk of the English) would turn their back on that team, if the Quebecois representation weren't sufficient.
Fine, you say. What about the anglo and other ethnic supporters? Well, you have to realize how much the composition of the population in Montreal has changed over the last 30 years. The anglophone minority is a lot smaller. Only approx 500,000 (ie 15% or so of Montreal's 3.5 million people) identify themselves as of English descent. That's about the population of London Ontario. As for other ethnic groups, they're principally francophone.
Further, while anglophones still live in the anglo enclaves in Westmount, NDG and the west island, they're very assimilated otherwise - they're mostly bilingual, and they're very much Quebecois in terms of many cultural habits - eating late, smoking, living together as opposed to marriage, and not caring all that much about sports.
On this last point - "Montrealers" as sports fans are front-running bandwagon jumpers, no two ways about it. Hockey is different, but even then, if the team is bad, Montrelers of all stripes stay away - the Molson Centre was half empty most nights from 1999-2004, when the Habs were lousy. And let's face it, until proven otherwise, the CMNT is not a "good" team.
As Beach Red noted, Saputo is deep in the east end (ie francophone Montreal). Don't kid yourself - "distance" in this case is about more than how far it is on the metro from Westmount.
The Impact have significant associations for Quebecois - the jersey, the requirements for French Canadian players etc. Support for them does not mean the same things that TFC support does for the CMNT.
I'll stop to catch my breath there. I could go on!
Last edited by ensco; 09-10-2008 at 06:09 PM.
Very astute Ensco, I grew up dans les Canton de l'est -- well, partially, anyway -- and can attest that a) convenience has always been a factor in attendance. Just ask the Allouettes; and b) the winning mentality factor is huge. Just ask the Expos.
There's a third issue here, however, which is always being glossed over: Saputo has, traditionally, given away thousands upon thousands of tickets to Impact games. Like, up to 6,000 per game, with the rationale that they're already paid for through sponsorships, particularly the government. So the initial proposal that Montreal is a hotbed of soccer support is pretty flimsy. In fact, if you take away the freebees, they have the same kind of USL attendance as Vancouver, Seattle, Portland and other similar-sized cities with grade c soccer.
Combine all those factors and I'd be surprised, without a Quebecois star player, if the nats could EVER sell out Saputo.
On the other issue, if anyone wants to know what a nightmare it's like staging games without presales, ask the CSA: they've done it twice in Edmonton, and both times more than 15,000 fans have missed the first half of the game waiting in line (in the rain, both times.)
And of course, being the CSA, they then refused to discount tickets until the second half was well underway.
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