can we get him a decent striker and oh... i dunno... defenders?Originally Posted by Shaughno
neways... good on Carver.
JOHN CARVER! FUCK THE WORLD!
can we get him a decent striker and oh... i dunno... defenders?
neways... good on Carver.
JOHN CARVER! FUCK THE WORLD!
You Goddam Right!
We're with you John Carver!
Carver has tried to deal with the MLS as far as he can. A coach can only take it so far... plus a Brit trying to tell some Yanks how to run a league? Good luck. Those Yanks got their heads so far up their asses.....
If the MLS can't be persuaded by FIFA, then perhaps the only thing that can shake them up is hitting them where it hurts. MONEY! They are yanks after all...
Give Carver another 2 years minimum. It's hard enough to make a championship team in only 3 years, but he has certainly shown some good potential for another season, and more importantly, his head is in the right place.
Agreed, people think we are in a bad way(6 points out of playoffs), but with the oppertunities we have with cap space, and boat load of Drafts, let alone allocation money, we're in the far better position for the future.
Also with good drafts and key signings we're atleast as good as San Jose is possibly next season.
Moderator
Eh? At what point exactly did I say that the whole team was old? I said their team's future is staked to a guy in his mid-thirties.
Where were they before Huckerby arrived? Distant last place in the league. Which means reality also disagrees with your assessment of the talent of the rest of the squad.
Huckerby has 4 goals and 3 assists in 6 games - he is the reason for their turnaround. The same guy that lots of people here criticized Mo for staking a claim on, because he was "washed up" and "over the hill." Silly Mo, always looking at "washed up losers from England", right?
Sans-Huckerby, San Jose have provem themselves to be an incredibly weak team - and Huckerby isn't going to be around for a long time. They should be working on building a stronger core of excellent domestic prospects, and international talent.
Instead, they traded away their 1st round draft pick, and traded away allocation cash. And for what? So they can maybe possibly have a shot of barely sliding into the playoffs due to their weak division, and then getting beaten by a solid overall team like Houston?
Again - they have mortgaged their future for a middling record this season.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
...which is exactly what the Leafs did under JFJ. It's good to see that MLSE's football team is following exactly the opposite strategy: building for the long-term instead of an "instant mediocre." I like it. Now if only MLSE's blue-coloured team would do the same...
Last edited by Oldtimer; 09-09-2008 at 07:55 AM.
MLS is a tough, physical league, that emphasizes speed, and features plastic fields, grueling travel, extreme weather, and incompetent refs. - NK Toronto
Moderator
I considered making the common "leafs comparison" point, but I was afraid it would dilute the poignancy of what I was trying to say.
Thank you.
- Scott
“Heroism breaks its heart, and idealism its back, on the intransigence of the credulous and the mediocre, manipulated by the cynical and the corrupt.” ~Christopher Hitchens
Stop making excuses. San Jose is 4-3-5 against eastern oponents this year. Do you want me to count for you? That's 15 out of 28 points they have right now AGAINST EASTERN OPPONENTS. They've beat both Columbus and New England this year as well. Actually spanked both of them. I think you need a reality check and stop posting crap you know nothing about. This is the 10th post I see from you in the last 3 days that is assumptions and lies.
WOW, you guys have no idea. You think this is he NHL? where top draft picks turn into instant gold? that's funny. Where's our first pick from last year? GONE. because if these picks are too good, they go, if they are not good enough, then who wants them?
Reality check, until we start scouting young promising players from South America, Asia, Africa then we are not building for the future.
Execpt for the fact that most of San Jose's point have come after they signed the South American star Darren Huckerby........I wonder why Mo didn't think of him
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Why does it matter where they're from? As you say if they're too good they go and if they aren't good enough no one wants them. That's just as true for players from South America, Asia, Africa and California.
Carver is good for our league.
The first overall picks usually work out in sports but hey sometimes they don't. You want examples of teams that don't need #1 overall picks to win a championship? Detroit Red Wings??? They draft well and don't need a #1 overall pick.
You need to draft well, being able to find talent and potentinal in players that are really mostly unknown. They don't need a superstar. They need quality.
it doesnt matter where they come from.
If we get a bunch of south americans that dont pan out then most people will say we need more english players.
I think that yes, we do need to scout in more places but have to remember, Most south americans have never heard of toronto in their lives. Can you imagine hwo hard it is to make Toronto attractive to a early 20's kid who has never seen or felt weather colder than 25 degrees.
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Next weeks banner idea, I love it
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My MLS now includes Montreal... we needed someone to hate.
it's very fitting.
Mo couldn't close the deal, that's his problem. I really don't get what your point is? unless you are saying that it's ok to suck this year because Huckerby signed with San Jose instead of usExecpt for the fact that most of San Jose's point have come after they signed the South American star Darren Huckerby........I wonder why Mo didn't think of him
His point is that Mo did have him on the radar and Huckerby signed elsewhere. I think that is a proper feather in Mo's hat. We just have to accept that there will be times when people won't want to play here for various reasons...I think it's silly if we blame Mo for that. Would you have prepared to pay DP money for Huckerby, which even then might not have convinced him?Mo couldn't close the deal, that's his problem. I really don't get what your point is? unless you are saying that it's ok to suck this year because Huckerby signed with San Jose instead of us
It's not even that Mo had him on his radar but that he would have signed him if not for the turf.
O'Brien would still be a red if not for the turf.
Would San Jose be as good without those two? No.
The point is that in the world of the Mo/JC bashers there is just black and white unlike the real world where there is tonnes of grey.
You don't get it. I'm not talking about getting a full team of promising 20 year olds straight from College in their respective countries that would get scouted right away. That's not how you'll build a team that will be succesfull in the MLS. You also need the undiscovered 26-30 year olds elsewhere in the world that can give you a solid number of years (these guys don't tend to be scouted as heavily by European teams). Saying that we are building for the future simply because we have lots of draft picks means nothing in the MLS. We need a heck of a lot more then just draft picks if TFC is going to be succesfull. Once again, this isn't the NHL, or NFL, or NBA where these early picks typically turn to gold. Think about it, is there even such a thing as a franchise player in the MLS? there couldn't be, mostly because if these young guys show a good 1 or 2 years they are gone. Edu is the perfect example. We had the first overall pick in the MLS last year. If that was the NHL, this kid would give you 10 years and would be your franchise player. We got 1 year from Edu and he's gone to Europe.
I was quite clear before Huckerby came here that I would pay DP money for him. Sometimes you have to overpay to compensate for the turf and the lack of interest in playing in Toronto. listen, at the end of the day, Mo's job is to bring in players. I really don't care too much about what obstacle he faces. If I'm a salesman at work, and I don't hit my quota, can I blame it on the product? That's essentially what you people are doing!
Why would we get any more out of a player from somewhere else?
But you are right, everyone knows that building a large scouting network is important - it just takes time and costs money. I doubt there's a single 25 year old player in the world who could make even the MLS that doesn't have an agent.
Right, and all I'm saying is that I won't say TFC is building for the future until we have a solid scouting network. Personally, that's more important to me then having 2 first rounders (I think that's what we have this coming up year?)
Carver will be the Sir Alex of MLS!
It has to be both - expanded scouting and high draft picks. The MLS needs to have American stars that came up through the NCAA to be successful - we can complain about that all we want, it's the way pro sports work in America.
he is a good coach he should stay
I support John Carver. No other coach in MLS has had to start coaching so late, had so many roster changes, and be affected by International matches. Wow! What a perfect storm..... Plus, I like his never die attitude.
Mo on the other hand has shown us 2 years of mediocrity, a revolving player door, a quick trigger, lack of patience, confusion, and a dislike of Canadians.....What is the plan? We are slipping sideways not moving forward.
I'm glad Carver is staying. I like a no nonsense guy who will tell it like it is.
He is apparently a good "players" coach which is exactly what a new franchise needs.
He is bound to end up with a load of young prospects to be brought along and strengthen the organization as a whole.
His learning curve as to MLS and how the league works, or in some instances doesn't, will soon be over. Once he learns what to expect in officiating etc... he will adjust.
Of course we as fans have no idea what goes on behind closed doors on the business end of things. Many good coaches and managers have had to "walk the fine line" between football decisions and business direction imposed by the owners.
I have no problem with his contract being extended, but do not wear the rose coloured glasses.
I am sort of in the middle when it comes to extending Carver's contract but recognize we need patience. He is essentially a rookie when it comes to being a head coach and has had to learn a lot on the job.
There is no doubt in my mind that he is a good training coach as many of the players have come out and said so, which is a reflection on his vast experience in England.
Where he has fallen a bit short is his line up/formation and in-game management. This is not a complaint, rather more of a reflection of his experience. He only had a few games where he was caretaker manager in England, and now almost a season of experience as the head man. He has admitted he has made some mistakes and has learned from them which is what we need to see.
Just as the rookie players have needed time to develop, so does Carver so we have to accept he will make some boo boo's.
As for San Jose mortgaging their future I do not agree with that at all. 1st round draft picks out the NCAA are an absolute crapshoot, and according to the professor's thread on NCAA players there is certainly no clear cut #1. Players like Edu are not commonplace, but if you can get a good depth player and not expect anything more than that the draft is good.
We all heard about Julius James being the consensus #1 and after the combine he fell to 9th place. We all heard that he was MLS ready, and were shown that he wasn't. It is not that he is a bad player, he just doesn't have the experience against better competition in the MLS and got owned on numerous occasions.
And as for them giving us allocation money for O'Brien, well it was money the league gave to them to start up. It had to be used within 18 months so why not spend it on O'Brien?
Where the Revs have done well I beleive (as do many rev's fans who I have spoken to) is not getting the best player available in the draft, but the best players that will work within their system.
That's the best written post in this thread!
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