Which TFC Team is Better?

[TFC USA]

We bitch and moan about this TFC team all year, but is it better than last year's team? Put this into perspective:

2 road wins this season compared to 1 last season.

More wins overall than last season.

One of the best home records in MLS.


In 30 games Mo "Screw South America, players who played in England is all I will sign!" Johnston led us to a grand total of 25 points, coach Carver has gotten us to that same total after 19 games, and we have 26 points overall after 22.

On pace to score more goals than last season while allowing way fewer.


No long goal scoring drought this year.


No Andrea Lombardo.



I think this TFC team on a statistical basis is much better than the inaugural season, but style of play, we may be worse or on par with the long balls, the missed chances, the silly goals, etc.


What do you think? That's why the poll is there.

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Obviously we're better this year, we have more legitimate starters, it's really hard to believe that last year we had Andy Welsh and Andrea Lombardo starting regularly.

[TFC USA]

Holy crap that was a fast response.

[Damien]

We haven't had a 10 game goalless streak this year

[RPB_Brantford_08]

we have improved...and at seasons end i think we will 2-3 more wins added to the total, will be enough for playoffs...? No quite.

[flatpicker]

better now... but still not very good...

[giambac]

We bitch and moan about this TFC team all year, but is it better than last year's team? Put this into perspective:

2 road wins this season compared to 1 last season.

More wins overall than last season.

One of the best home records in MLS.


In 30 games Mo "Screw South America, players who played in England is all I will sign!" Johnston led us to a grand total of 25 points, coach Carver has gotten us to that same total after 19 games, and we have 26 points overall after 22.

On pace to score more goals than last season while allowing way fewer.


No long goal scoring drought this year.


No Andrea Lombardo.



I think this TFC team on a statistical basis is much better than the inaugural season, but style of play, we may be worse or on par with the long balls, the missed chances, the silly goals, etc.


What do you think? That's why the poll is there.

Points , golas mean fuck all.

Last year we came dead last.

This year we are currently 2nd last and the SJ expansion team is just 1 point behind us. It's looking that we will probaly come last this year again and if not w ewill definetly be in the bootom 3.

In other words all the other teams in the league improved as much if not more than us.

So don't give me the bullshit that we have more points.

We missed the playoffs last year and we will miss the playoffs this year again. We were brutal last year and we are equally brutal this year.

Factor in that we also lost to USL teams in the CC Challenge and to me this team is therefore worse tahn last years team.

[H Bomb]

Points , golas mean fuck all.

Last year we came dead last.

This year we are currently 2nd last and the SJ expansion team is just 1 point behind us. It's looking that we will probaly come last this year again and if not w ewill definetly be in the bootom 3.

In other words all the other teams in the league improved as much if not more than us.....

Points mean fuck all....remember

[TFC USA]

Points , golas mean fuck all.

Last year we came dead last.

This year we are currently 2nd last and the SJ expansion team is just 1 point behind us. It's looking that we will probaly come last this year again and if not w ewill definetly be in the bootom 3.

In other words all the other teams in the league improved as much if not more than us.

So don't give me the bullshit that we have more points.

We missed the playoffs last year and we will miss the playoffs this year again. We were brutal last year and we are equally brutal this year.

Factor in that we also lost to USL teams in the CC Challenge and to me this team is therefore worse tahn last years team.

Way to contradict yourself there pal.

FAIL!

[David_Oliveira]

Our quality is alot better this year. It's still not where we need to be but hey Rome wasn't built in a day

[David_Oliveira]

Points , golas mean fuck all.

Last year we came dead last.

This year we are currently 2nd last and the SJ expansion team is just 1 point behind us. It's looking that we will probaly come last this year again and if not w ewill definetly be in the bootom 3.

In other words all the other teams in the league improved as much if not more than us.

So don't give me the bullshit that we have more points.

We missed the playoffs last year and we will miss the playoffs this year again. We were brutal last year and we are equally brutal this year.

Factor in that we also lost to USL teams in the CC Challenge and to me this team is therefore worse tahn last years team.

we lost last year to a USL team. We lost to Portland 4-1

[Kevvv]

Points , golas mean fuck all.

Last year we came dead last.

This year we are currently 2nd last and the SJ expansion team is just 1 point behind us. It's looking that we will probaly come last this year again and if not wewill definetly be in the bootom 3.

Far be it from me to speak for giambac, but I think his opening point is not "Points and goals mean fuck all" but "Points; goals mean fuck all" as in, ignore goals, scored +/-, droughts, and look at points.

Thing is this season looked to have so much promise back in June, when we were in what, third overall, ever so briefly? A winning record for the first time ever?

Then the wheels fell off, the axle broke, and the engine caught fire. We have losing records against the teams that matter, the ones in the east: Columbus, DC, NJRB, Chicago, NER. Too much flux in the lineup. Dichio out. And losing so many guys to int'l duty seems to hit us disproportionately.

Last year we kind of expected to lose, and could hardly count on scoring. This year it looked like we had a chance, because we had a decent record. Sure we lost every road game against eastern teams, but for a while it looked like the pieces were falling into place.

Now we're closer to two points from the bottom and one point up on SJ, and couldn't even beat those expansion douches in our home ground.

[v00d00daddy]

We bitch and moan about this TFC team all year, but is it better than last year's team? Put this into perspective:

2 road wins this season compared to 1 last season.

More wins overall than last season.

One of the best home records in MLS.


In 30 games Mo "Screw South America, players who played in England is all I will sign!" Johnston led us to a grand total of 25 points, coach Carver has gotten us to that same total after 19 games, and we have 26 points overall after 22.

On pace to score more goals than last season while allowing way fewer.


No long goal scoring drought this year.


No Andrea Lombardo.



I think this TFC team on a statistical basis is much better than the inaugural season, but style of play, we may be worse or on par with the long balls, the missed chances, the silly goals, etc.



TFC USA:

Are you purposely not mentioning the things that are worse this year than last?

Yes. All of the things you mentioned are clearly improvements but do you think that TFC hasn't regressed in some areas, or at the very least, remained stagnant, in a bad spot?

In case you didn't notice.

1. We're likely to finish at the bottom of the league again. No improvement there.

2. Last year we had players like Eskandarian, Buddle, O'Brien, Boyens, Samuel, Cunningham, Nagamura Lombardo, Welsh, Phelan and Pozniak. We replaced them with guys like Guevara, Ricketts, Tebily, Robert, Jarrod Smith, Velez, James, Harmse, Hemming, Ibrahim and Ruiz.

Of the guys that we replaced the 1st year guys with how many have left?

Tebily, Robert and Hemming. Where are some of those first year guys?

Esky scored against us last game.
Buddle having a good year in L.A.
O'Brien having a good year in SJ.
Nagamura having a good year at Chivas.
Pozniak playing in Scotland.

We also lost Edu for some future grass...maybe.

Is this ^^^^^ an improvement? Negligible.

I'm sure I missed a few names but you get the idea.

3. No long goal scoring drought but we are in the middle of managing 6 points out of a possible 30 in the last 10 league matches. No improvement there.

4. No CCL last year. We didn't qualify for it this year, against 2 USL teams. I can't possibly see how that is some kind of improvement on anything we did last year.

5. Your last point about being worse or on par with the long balls, the missed chances, the silly goals and tactics is bang on. No improvement there.

All in all I think it's really hard to say if TFC is better this year than last. They definitely have some skilled players now, but they've also lost some. They're scoring more goals but giving up more goals at crucial times.

I'll wait until the end of the season to decide for sure but I think season 2 has been as big a disappointment as season 1. Better in some cases, and worse in others.

[Cashcleaner]

I don't see how anyone can honestly believe that we are worse off this season than last. Last year we were losing games left, right, and centre; while at least now we tend to draw more often and get the single point.

[giambac]

Points mean fuck all....remember

Agreed,

That's why you have to look at the standings and in the standings this years team fails miserable.

The whole thread is stupid. Which team is worse last years or this years? They both suck so why debate the issue?????

[giambac]

We bitch and moan about this TFC team all year, but is it better than last year's team? Put this into perspective:

2 road wins this season compared to 1 last season.

More wins overall than last season.

One of the best home records in MLS.


In 30 games Mo "Screw South America, players who played in England is all I will sign!" Johnston led us to a grand total of 25 points, coach Carver has gotten us to that same total after 19 games, and we have 26 points overall after 22.

On pace to score more goals than last season while allowing way fewer.


No long goal scoring drought this year.


No Andrea Lombardo.



I think this TFC team on a statistical basis is much better than the inaugural season, but style of play, we may be worse or on par with the long balls, the missed chances, the silly goals, etc.



TFC USA:

Are you purposely not mentioning the things that are worse this year than last?

Yes. All of the things you mentioned are clearly improvements but do you think that TFC hasn't regressed in some areas, or at the very least, remained stagnant, in a bad spot?

In case you didn't notice.

1. We're likely to finish at the bottom of the league again. No improvement there.

2. Last year we had players like Eskandarian, Buddle, O'Brien, Boyens, Samuel, Cunningham, Nagamura Lombardo, Welsh, Phelan and Pozniak. We replaced them with guys like Guevara, Ricketts, Tebily, Robert, Jarrod Smith, Velez, James, Harmse, Hemming, Ibrahim and Ruiz.

Of the guys that we replaced the 1st year guys with how many have left?

Tebily, Robert and Hemming. Where are some of those first year guys?

Esky scored against us last game.
Buddle having a good year in L.A.
O'Brien having a good year in SJ.
Nagamura having a good year at Chivas.
Pozniak playing in Scotland.

We also lost Edu for some future grass...maybe.

Is this ^^^^^ an improvement? Negligible.

I'm sure I missed a few names but you get the idea.

3. No long goal scoring drought but we are in the middle of managing 6 points out of a possible 30 in the last 10 league matches. No improvement there.

4. No CCL last year. We didn't qualify for it this year, against 2 USL teams. I can't possibly see how that is some kind of improvement on anything we did last year.

5. Your last point about being worse or on par with the long balls, the missed chances, the silly goals and tactics is bang on. No improvement there.

All in all I think it's really hard to say if TFC is better this year than last. They definitely have some skilled players now, but they've also lost some. They're scoring more goals but giving up more goals at crucial times.

I'll wait until the end of the season to decide for sure but I think season 2 has been as big a disappointment as season 1. Better in some cases, and worse in others.

Like I said numerous times on this forum. People/ supporters are blind. They don't look at the whole picture. Who cares if we got more points this year. In the standings there is no improvement. All the other teams have improved as much if not more than us. The SJ expansion team is arguable better than us.

The fact that we are debating which team is beeter or worse shows the lack of soccer knowledge on this forum.

Both teams (last year an dthis year) suck. End of debate.

[Parkdale]

I think it's simple.

This year we tend to lose toward the end of the match. last year, we were usually dead by the half.

sure it's not something people can tangibly read like a +/- goal count, but it feels like we're doing better.

[TFC Tifoso]

Points mean fuck all....remember

Yeah they mean fuck all when comparing this year's miserable team to last year's miserable team (get it, they're both miserable).....but when you consider the fact that TFC could possibly finish in LAST FUCKING PLACE, behind an expansion team, points mean a lot, bud!

A little logic here would go a long way.

no goal scoring drought?! Who cares?!?! In case you haven't noticed, TFC has won once...ONCE!! in the past two months....this is a much bigger problem.

We do not have a team, just individual players, and if some think that's good enough you're sadly mistaken.

[invictusTFC]

There is one common theme in both the 2007 and 2008 versions of this club, THE ROSTER IS IN CONSTANT FLUX. I can understand, that we are trying to build a winning team here, but its really hard to win consistently when the pieces of the puzzle are constantly changing. It's even worse when you factor in the international dates and the absences that they create. The best teams in this league are the ones that have been able to maintain a relatively stable roster which is extremely hard to do in this league.
We have to look at these past 2 seasons in terms of expectations. Last year we were horrible but there was little or no expectations for this club. This season on the other hand has been truly disappointing because everyone's' level of expectation was much higher. The team has failed to live up to those expectations on the field for a variety of reasons. I believe that the constant roster shuffling is the primary reason.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Like I said numerous times on this forum. People/ supporters are blind. They don't look at the whole picture. Who cares if we got more points this year. In the standings there is no improvement. All the other teams have improved as much if not more than us. The SJ expansion team is arguable better than us.

The fact that we are debating which team is beeter or worse shows the lack of soccer knowledge on this forum.

Both teams (last year an dthis year) suck. End of debate.

I think dthis years team is beeter.

[v00d00daddy]

Guys. If you could somehow pit last years roster vs. this years roster in a match then yes, the 2008 TFC is better and would likely win. But that's impossible and it's not the point. TFC has to be measured against the rest of the teams within the league they play. It doesn't matter that we have more wins this year. We're in the same spot in the standings. (or just above it). We lead the league in losses.

Any improvement in TFC's performance from 2007 to 2008 is negligible at best. That's the key guys. You can't judge the team by looking at who is on our roster. You have to judge them based on how they compete amongst the other teams in the league.

Stop trying to find a silver lining in everything and come to terms with the fact that they sucked last year and they suck this year. The only question is how and when will it be turned around.

[trane]

You cannot do it by season. TFC with Dichio is better the TFC without Dichio, in either season.

[reggie]

i love DD,but he has been injured most of the last 2 seasons,can we move on.
i think what really hurts is losing to mtl in the CCL and the loss of 2 home games at least.
when who start to take money away from mlse they will start to wake up.
that could be the downfall of MO...........

[trane]

^ That is the point, untill we get a player to truly replace him in every way( Leadership, grit, strike rate, footy IQ) we are not going to win on a consistent basis. This years team is better on paper, but does not have what it takes to win. We look like a team without direction and focus, who can not put 90 minutes of solid defense, and does not have enough offensive spark. We have more tallented player this year, but there is something missing. I think that should be clear even to the most optimistic of observerses.

[giambac]

Guys. If you could somehow pit last years roster vs. this years roster in a match then yes, the 2008 TFC is better and would likely win. But that's impossible and it's not the point. TFC has to be measured against the rest of the teams within the league they play. It doesn't matter that we have more wins this year. We're in the same spot in the standings. (or just above it). We lead the league in losses.

Any improvement in TFC's performance from 2007 to 2008 is negligible at best. That's the key guys. You can't judge the team by looking at who is on our roster. You have to judge them based on how they compete amongst the other teams in the league.

Stop trying to find a silver lining in everything and come to terms with the fact that they sucked last year and they suck this year. The only question is how and when will it be turned around.

You won't be successful trying to use logic with most of the people on this forum. They have their minds already made up. TFC rocks and if not for bad luck, if not for the turf, if not for the injuries, if not for the refs, if not for the schedule, if not for the weather, if not for the price of oil they would be in first place.

They look for every possible excuse and always are looking to find a silver lining.

[trane]

^ I have to agree with v00d00daddy and I have said it before, at the end of the day the record is what counts, and our record is shit, this year, and was shit last year. There is very little difference.

[Don Julio]

I was fully expecting the following Poll Options:

* First Team
* Reserve Team
* Academy Team

And I still couldn't decide who to pick.

[giambac]

I was fully expecting the following Poll Options:

* First Team
* Reserve Team
* Academy Team

And I still couldn't decide who to pick.

Nice lol

I to would struggle if I had to pick one of the three

[Pachuco]

I would argue that last year's team (with all starting 11 in the lineup) is better then this year's team. That is, if you take the best starting 11 from last year against Chivas lineup.

[Maple Leaf Red]

please stop quoting giambac because it defeats the purpose of those of us enlightened enough to have blocked his insane rantings.

The team has improved, the team's outlook for the future has improved, and hopefully we stop losing impact players to our shit pitch.