Argos at BMO update.

[king dave]

My golf buddy had dinner with Peddie Sunday and Peddie said,
1. The Argos are not going to spend $20 million plus to retro-fit BMO
without some kinda of in depth study, which they do not want to
pay for anyways.
2. The Argos will only make a move if the money comes from private
sources = good luck boatmen.

Deal is as good as dead he believes.
KD.

[RPB_RED_NATION_RPB]

My golf buddy had dinner with Peddie Sunday and Peddie said,
1. The Argos are not going to spend $20 million plus to retro-fit BMO
without some kinda of in depth study, which they do not want to
pay for anyways.
2. The Argos will only make a move if the money comes from private
sources = good luck boatmen.

Deal is as good as dead he believes.
KD.

start layin SOD!!

[SilverSamurai]

My golf buddy had dinner with Peddie Sunday and Peddie said,
1. The Argos are not going to spend $20 million plus to retro-fit BMO
without some kinda of in depth study, which they do not want to
pay for anyways.
2. The Argos will only make a move if the money comes from private
sources = good luck boatmen.

Deal is as good as dead he believes.
KD.

Hope this deal stays dead.
I do not want the Argos at our house. "STAY THE F*CK OUT!"

[profit89]

yeah... stay the f*** out

[BuSaPuNk]

Get the sod out boys!!!

[ensco]

I know some of the principals in this story.

The Argos want what MLSE got - public funding. It just bugs them that MLSE played the politics so perfectly on getting BMO built.

The Argo owners are seriously wealthy. David Cynamon netted at least $50 million when his private label bleach manufacturing company was sold last year, and Howard Sokolowski owns one of the biggest developer of suburbs in the GTA, Tribute Communities, and when I say "one of the biggest", I'm talking about billions in property developed over the last 10 years. These guys could build themselves a "Stade Saputo" style purpose-built CFL stadium at York anytime they wanted for $15-20 million.

But MLSE got their stadium from the public purse, so that's what they want too.

Anything less won't play at the RCYC.

If they have to spend their own dough, they'll spend it on their own purpose-built field, not on making BMO a second-rate stadium for CFL football, which is all it could ever be as a multi-sport venue. The compromises required for any venue to accomodate multiple sports are significant - it's a big part of why Skydome is a failure.

Ancillary benefit of all this agitation - maybe they'll get a better deal out of Rogers, just by making a lot of noise about moving (that's what happened in 2004).

[SilverSamurai]

I know some of the principals in this story.

The Argos want what MLSE got - public funding. It just bugs them that MLSE played the politics so perfectly on getting BMO built.

The Argo owners are seriously wealthy. David Cynamon netted at least $50 million when his bleach company was sold last year, Sokolowski owns one of the biggest developer of suburbs in the GTA, and that's saying something. These guys could build themselves a "Stade Saputo" style field at York anytime they wanted for $15-20 million, but because MLSE got their stadium from the public purse, that's what they want too.

Anything less won't play at the RCYC.

If they have to spend their own dough, they'll spend it on their own purpose-built field, not on making BMO a second-rate stadium for CFL football, which is all it could ever be as a multi-sport venue. The compromises required to accomodate multiple sports are a big part of why Skydome is a failure.

Ancillary benefit of all this agitation - maybe they'll get a better deal out of Rogers, just by making a lot of noise about moving (that's what happened in 2004).

Hope you're right but this doesn't mean the supporters should back off yet.

[Strikers]

I know some of the principals in this story.

The Argos want what MLSE got - public funding. It just bugs them that MLSE played the politics so perfectly on getting BMO built.

MLSE did not have to play politics.

The Argos had the chance to get public funding twice. The rebuilt varsity stadium, and the proposed stadium at York would have had public funding. The CSA was trying to get a stadium built for the U-20. The Argos backed out twice.

[DVS]

Does this mean TFC can go ahead with the Mo Edu for Grass Trade

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

My golf buddy had dinner with Peddie Sunday and Peddie said,
1. The Argos are not going to spend $20 million plus to retro-fit BMO
without some kinda of in depth study, which they do not want to
pay for anyways.
2. The Argos will only make a move if the money comes from private
sources = good luck boatmen.

Deal is as good as dead he believes.
KD.

I really hope this is the end of it, thanks a lot for the news.

And commenting on what someone said above, the Argos really should be looking to build a CFL version of BMO Field. It will make the experience so much better for their fans, and really, we're always talking about cleaning up the waterfront and nothing ever gets done about it, why not knock down some dilapidated abandoned factory sitting down there and build a new stadium?

[Toronto Ruffrider]

MLSE did not have to play politics.

The Argos had the chance to get public funding twice. The rebuilt varsity stadium, and the proposed stadium at York would have had public funding. The CSA was trying to get a stadium built for the U-20. The Argos backed out twice.

When it comes to public money, you have to seize the day. Government spending on stadia such as BMO doesn't happen very often. YorkU wasn't the ideal place for a stadium, but sometimes you have to take whatever deal you can get.

[Cashcleaner]

I really hope this is the end of it, thanks a lot for the news.

And commenting on what someone said above, the Argos really should be looking to build a CFL version of BMO Field. It will make the experience so much better for their fans, and really, we're always talking about cleaning up the waterfront and nothing ever gets done about it, why not knock down some dilapidated abandoned factory sitting down there and build a new stadium?

I don't know about that. I really hate the idea of a multitude of stadiums built all across the city for individual pro sports clubs. The problem with groundsharing at BMO has always really been (or at least SHOULD have been) about the complicated logisitics and costs involved in accomodating the playing surface. The very idea still makes little sense no matter how I try to wrap my head around it, but there you go. Anyways, I don't see anything wrong with the Argos staying at Rogers Centre - in fact I much prefer it that way.

[ensco]

MLSE did not have to play politics.

You're kidding, right?

[ensco]

Hope you're right but this doesn't mean the supporters should back off yet.

Absolutely agree. Cynamon and Sokolowski have powerful friends and they wield influence. They could succeed in getting government money to convert BMO.

[redcard]

Absolutely agree. Cynamon and Sokolowski have powerful friends and they wield influence. They could succeed in getting government money to convert BMO.

The city has no money, they wont put anymore into BMO...who else would give them money province/feds, they no longer have an interest in put more money into...its already been done.

[ensco]

The city has no money, they wont put anymore into BMO.

I agree with that too. I said that they could succeed, not that they would or should succeed.

[Mikey]

The city has no money, they wont put anymore into BMO...who else would give them money province/feds, they no longer have an interest in put more money into...its already been done.

This is the weak spot we should hit hard if this Argos shennigans doesnt go away.
Massive email / letter campaign to city hall, call out all the councillors and demand public statements justifying spending more of OUR tax money on messing with a stadium that is already profitable.

A few digs about them trying to turn BMO from a profit making venture into another Skydome white elephant....

[Fort York Redcoat]

As rich as the Argos owners are they do not want to act rash but cautious. I think this posturing from the Argos was just attention grabbing from a poorly followed team from a media standpoint. When it comes to the business side of the Argos I think the owners will wait to see the result of the Bills 5 yr experiment. It gives them time to get in on another possible stadium on the cheap if they partner with the NFL or this Pan Am games in Toronto. The Argos are not hurting yet and these owners want to be the best long term owners in the teams long history.

Hail to the King and his insider scoop.

[boban]

I don't know about that. I really hate the idea of a multitude of stadiums built all across the city for individual pro sports clubs.

Why would you care?

[boban]

My golf buddy had dinner with Peddie Sunday and Peddie said,
1. The Argos are not going to spend $20 million plus to retro-fit BMO
without some kinda of in depth study, which they do not want to
pay for anyways.
2. The Argos will only make a move if the money comes from private
sources = good luck boatmen.

Deal is as good as dead he believes.
KD.

Just a couple of things that don't make this thing dead.
The $20M needed to convert the stadium to fit the Argos is just about the top end that the Argos have to spend. So while the money needed may seem high, this is about the top, or near the top, amount of money that Cynamon and Sokolowski have and would spend. They had that much earmarked a few years ago for the York stadium. Only construction cost overruns scared them away.
And this is coming from Peddie. In my books he's not the most astute forecaster. His numbers didn't add up for the Marlies on one end and on the other he heavily underestimated the success of TFC.

[ensco]

Why would you care?

I agree with this.

Cashcleaner, you are in a small minority on this anyway. There are only four MLB teams that still share their stadium with football - three are planning to move.

Anyone care to guess which MLB team will be last one playing in a multi-use stadium?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-purpose_stadium

[Wagner]

I agree with this.

Cashcleaner, you are in a small minority on this anyway. There are only four MLB teams that still share their stadium with football - three are planning to move.

Anyone care to guess which MLB team will be last one playing in a multi-use stadium?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-purpose_stadium

Too funny....
i just looked it up...it's the jays.

Twins are moving.
Marlins are looking for a new stadium.
Oakland is looking to move too...
that leaves Uncle Ted's Blue jays.

[Cashcleaner]

Why would you care?

Because as history has shown more often than not, it's the taxpayers who get the short end of the stick. To put it bluntly, I care because I'm likely gonna pay for it in some way.

And it's really just wasteful to have a stadium or arena used only, say 3 or 4 days out of a week when you could have people using it for 5, 6, or 7 days.

[giambac]

These threads are total Bullshit.

There must have been about 100 threads on the CFL/Argos's coming to BMO.

Everyone here keeps saying they won't come and give updates. It almost like you feel the need to reasure yourselves that they won't come and that the deal is dead. If the deal is dead why is everyone concerned?

If the deal is close to being dead why is everyone still always talking about it and creating new threads?

If the deal is next to dead why all the protests?

I don't belive the deal is next to dead and I think you guys don't believe it is either. You all have fear that the Argo's will come to BMO and find the need to reassure yourselves on this forum.

Stop fooling yourselves. There is a real threat that they will be coming to our house. I'd say it is probaly a 50/50 chance if not greater.

[boban]

Because as history has shown more often than not, it's the taxpayers who get the short end of the stick. To put it bluntly, I care because I'm likely gonna pay for it in some way.

And it's really just wasteful to have a stadium or arena used only, say 3 or 4 days out of a week when you could have people using it for 5, 6, or 7 days.

First off your statement said nothing of public funding.
And this attitude of not funding stadia because you're a tax payer is total bullshit. Now I am not saying let's go fund ludicrous amounts, but allocating $10-$20 million is not cause for alarm. And second, the fans who go use that stadium to watch the particular sport are taxpayers also. You shouldn't feel guilty for that.

If you can get use out of a stadium 3 days out of a week good luck with that. I don't think even ACC gets that much use. A stadium is built for a particular use, not to cater to everyone. And if the Argo can go build one for themselves good for them and good for the city because we will be better off for it. I mean look at cities around the world, esp Europe. A city our size would have at least 5 stadiums of at least 20,000 each. You think the clubs that use them couldn't better economize by sharing? Of course, but they think of use for their own purpose not how they will cater to another team.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

Because as history has shown more often than not, it's the taxpayers who get the short end of the stick. To put it bluntly, I care because I'm likely gonna pay for it in some way.

And it's really just wasteful to have a stadium or arena used only, say 3 or 4 days out of a week when you could have people using it for 5, 6, or 7 days.

I tend to agree with Cash…SkyDome, being the best example. If your gonna use public funds it must be accessible to the public, which is a double edged sword as we all know.

BMO/TFC would not exist without taxpayers money but because of this, we have a plastic pitch and everyone and their brother wanting a piece of it.

If anything, this city needs a couple of small "BMOs", 3,500 to 10,000 to be publicly used for amateur/school sports, concerts and festivals. Facilities like Ester Shriner, Birchmount and Lamport, even with the new turf are ridiculous for a city this size.

[Shakes McQueen]

I'd say it is probaly a 50/50 chance if not greater.

Based on what information?

Whle I do think people are trying to reassure themselves with all of these threads, I also think the optimism is warranted.

- Scott

[boban]

I tend to agree with Cash…SkyDome, being the best example. If your gonna use public funds it must be accessible to the public, which is a double edged sword as we all know.

Move to Cuba or China then.
SkyDome was a failure because of the excesses.
Also, the government never should have ran the stadium.

If anything, this city needs a couple of small "BMOs", 3,500 to 10,000 to be publicly used for amateur/school sports, concerts and festivals. Facilities like Ester Shriner, Birchmount and Lamport, even with the new turf are ridiculous for a city this size.

[Cashcleaner]

First off your statement said nothing of public funding.
And this attitude of not funding stadia because you're a tax payer is total bullshit. Now I am not saying let's go fund ludicrous amounts, but allocating $10-$20 million is not cause for alarm. And second, the fans who go use that stadium to watch the particular sport are taxpayers also. You shouldn't feel guilty for that.

Ummm, you're right. My first post didn't say anything about public funding. That's very astute of you. ????

If you can get use out of a stadium 3 days out of a week good luck with that. I don't think even ACC gets that much use.

I'm pretty sure BMO Field does with all it's public use factored in.

A stadium is built for a particular use, not to cater to everyone. And if the Argo can go build one for themselves good for them and good for the city because we will be better off for it. I mean look at cities around the world, esp Europe. A city our size would have at least 5 stadiums of at least 20,000 each. You think the clubs that use them couldn't better economize by sharing? Of course, but they think of use for their own purpose not how they will cater to another team.

Plenty of clubs in Europe groundshare. AC Milan/Inter Milan, Bayern Munich/TSV Munich, Roma/Lazio, etc.

Now, I'm no expert, but those are some pretty recognisable clubs, aren't they? Not just some 2nd division sides that need the money, right? And if you want to consider intrasport groundsharing, just look at Wigan FC (EPL) and Wigan Warriors (Rugby League).

[Shakes McQueen]

Ummm, you're right. My first post didn't say anything about public funding. That's very astute of you. ????


I'm pretty sure BMO Field does with all it's public use factored in.


Plenty of clubs in Europe groundshare. AC Milan/Inter Milan, Bayern Munich/TSV Munich, Roma/Lazio, etc.

Now, I'm no expert, but those are some pretty recognisable clubs, aren't they? Not just some 2nd division sides that need the money, right?

If the Argos were a USL1 team, I wouldn't have a problem with them using BMO.

Unfortunately the Argos issue goes beyond mere sharing of the stadium.

- Scott